Sherman What Makes William T. Sherman Honorable?

[James N.]

I think it's only fair that all admirers of Uncle Billy should have their own opportunity to gush about their hero; it's not fair that only pro-Confederates get to boast about the achievements of their respective Paladins. What about Sherman's chivalrous treatment of civilians? His sympathy with the plight of the Freedmen? Etc., etc.

 

[diane]

What? No takers yet? Good grief, surely somebody will stick up for Cump's honor - which is more than he ever did!

 

[CSA Today]

I think it's only fair that all admirers of Uncle Billy should have their own opportunity to gush about their hero; it's not fair that only pro-Confederates get to boast about the achievements of their respective Paladins. What about Sherman's chivalrous treatment of civilians? His sympathy with the plight of the Freedmen? Etc., etc.[/QUOTE]
Indeed?

 

[shermans_march]

I have a couple:

First of all he, who was not very religious, stayed married to his wife who was a very devout Catholic. Apparently she kept pestering him to convert and this must have drove him up the wall.

He didn't side with the Southerners even though he had strong ties and sympathies to the South. His devotion to his country was greater.

He wouldn't allow soldiers to mistreat Southern women when they invaded Southern states. He stopped one such encounter.

He employed hard war against the South to end the war and the bloodshed. He wanted to make the South hurt to see the futility of their struggle.

He treated most African Americans he met with respect though he became irritated when they followed his armies and was against them joining the army. He was like many of his time prejudiced and against black equality.

The man liked to dance at parties.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

The quality I've admired most about Sherman was his graciousness towards the defeated. He may have been the "Attila the Hun" to Southerners in War, but his attitude towards them in defeat, such as his terms to Johnson at the Bennet Farm, show he was bigger believer in "let them up easy" with softer terms than Grant, and perhaps, and this may be stretch in some eyes, even Lincoln.

 

[JOHN42768]

What? No takers yet? Good grief, surely somebody will stick up for Cump's honor - which is more than he ever did!

Patience is a virtue

 

[Jimklag]

There is one, sure measure of an honorable man - that he mean what he says and say what he means. This is certainly a character trait of Sherman's. One never had to guess what Sherman meant. He also took ownership of his actions and didn't apologize for them. He never publicly admitted his mistake at Kennesaw Mountain, but he never denied it and never repeated it. It says a lot about the man that his foremost enemy in the war, Joseph Johnston, served as an honorary pallbearer at his funeral.

 

[diane]

Myself, I've always seen a strong parallel between Sherman and Forrest but I do think the concepts of honor are a little bit different - maybe even a lot. When one makes a list of things you'll die for, the list is pretty short - and gets shorter as you think about it - but his country was on that list. Sherman was likely the fiercest patriot on either side. Whether it was ruining Tennessee and Mississippi or ruining the tribes, his nation was at the root of it all.

 

[JOHN42768]

Cruelty another way of describing war. Both sides displayed this trait. Lets not forget the Crater for one and only remember the path of destruction. Civilians suffer during war, especially if on home ground. Putting an end to the massive slaughter I believe goes to the greater end. Not saying civilians were not wronged. How many families had sons,brothers, fathers,uncles able to come home from the horrors of war much sooner then otherwise might have happened or maybe never. You really don't have to work up a sweat searching for cruelties imposed by most of the participants during the war. Much good and kindness was also wrought by the same people. Let there be Peace

 

[Jimklag]

Myself, I've always seen a strong parallel between Sherman and Forrest but I do think the concepts of honor are a little bit different - maybe even a lot. When one makes a list of things you'll die for, the list is pretty short - and gets shorter as you think about it - but his country was on that list. Sherman was likely the fiercest patriot on either side. Whether it was ruining Tennessee and Mississippi or ruining the tribes, his nation was at the root of it all.

You're right. Honorable doesn't necessarily mean nice. Sherman did not fight for the freedom of the slaves, or for anything at all other than to defend his country. By 1864, Georgia had become the commissary for the CSA and Sherman knew that if he destroyed that commissary, his country would win the war. His sole motivation for his scorched earth march through Georgia and the Carolinas was to win the war a soon as possible.

 

[wausaubob]

What did Sherman write? If the secessionists continue to fight, my army will take everything they have, including their land and their lives, if that is what it comes to. When you stop fighting, you find in me a friend and protector.
Is that what he did? I think so.
In addition his attitude towards African/Americans was honorable. He was convinced that blacks were not equal, but that does not mean they shouldn't be given opportunities to become equal. Nor should blacks be used to stop bullets. I think it was Sherman that said that although a black man can stop a bullet as well as a white man, a sandbag is better than either of those alternatives.

 

[wausaubob]

The cruelest possible result of the US Civil War would have been an inconclusive victory. General Sherman and General Grant made sure the defeat of the secessionists was thorough and inescapable. Secession was never attempted again.

 

[Jimklag]

The cruelest possible result of the US Civil War would have been an inconclusive victory. General Sherman and General Grant made sure the defeat of the secessionists was thorough and inescapable. Secession was never attempted again.

You're right. I think it says a lot about both men that they fought like hell until the very end and as soon as it was over, they did all they could to ease the transition of the defeated southern soldiers from enemies to fellow citizens.

 

[Zella]

I always found Sherman's blunt, plainspoken manner refreshing, admirable, and honorable.

"I make up my opinions from facts and reasoning, and not to suit any body but myself. If people don't like my opinions, it makes little difference as I don't solicit their opinions or votes."

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Sherman was likely the fiercest patriot on either side.

I don't know, we shouldn't forget Nathaniel Lyon.

"Better sir, far better that the blood of every man, woman, and child within the limits of this state should flow, than that she should defy the Federal Government!"-Lyon to Governor Jackson of Missouri

Lyon certainly seems a little more overzealous than Sherman, except maybe when Sherman was in a bad mood.
(edited)

 

[jackt62]

To reinforce some of the above comments, Sherman's honor stems from the fact that he did not hate the southern people, but waged the most brutal warfare he knew how in order to vanquish the south as quickly as possible. He understood war was a horrific solution: being his profession, he also understood it was a necessary means to resolving the conflict between north and south. As Sherman put it in his response to the mayor of Atlanta, who protested Sherman's order to evacuate Atlanta's civilian population, September 7, 1864:

"War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices today than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm as against these terrible hardships of war. They are inevitable, and the only way is to stop the war, which can only be done by admitting that it began in error and is perpetuated in pride. I want peace, and believe it can only be reached through union and war, and I will ever conduct war with a view to perfect and early success. But, my dear sirs, when peace does come, you may call on me for any thing. Then will I share with you the last cracker, and watch with you to shield your homes and families against danger from every quarter."

 

[gem]

He got it down.

 

[Jimklag]

I don't know, we shouldn't forget Nathaniel Lyon.

"Better sir, far better that the blood of every man, woman, and child within the limits of this state should flow, than that she should defy the Federal Government"-Lyon to Governor Jackson of Missouri

Lyon certainly seems a little more overzealous than Sherman, except maybe for when Sherman was in a bad mood.

Excuse me - what does this quote have to do with what makes Sherman honorable?

 

[diane]

Shelby Foote once said that Forrest had 'antique values'. That's quite true of him. However, Sherman did not! He loved to read Sir Walter Scott but scoffed at the romanticism and the very idea of dying honorably while leading his men to battle. No, show them where to go and live to fight another day - what are they going to do without me anyway? The South lost many of her best generals because of this honor before the men, lead the way. Sherman stayed alive the whole war, but he did not have to kill over 30 men to do it. He was targeted but it had to be at a distance - he did not lead by example!

For his personal life, have to say he picked one heck of a difficult partner! (Not that he was a prize himself...) His wife lived most of their marriage with her father, convinced her husband would never be able to support the family they kept growing. To his credit, he stayed faithful to her until much later years. Considerably after the war, he had a few dalliances and flings but Ellen wasn't disturbed - he wasn't going anywhere...and he didn't!

And, although Sherman's record is messy with the Indians, when he gave his word to the Navajos to get them out of Bosque Redondo, he did keep it. They have no problem with him and even like him. The Lakota - not so much! He wanted to simply annihilate them. Sometimes he spoke with forked tongue to other tribes, and that was generally because his subordinates split it! As an enemy, this guy was your worst nightmare, but as a friend you couldn't ask better. I do have problems with his treatment of Indians, though. He didn't invent the Peace Policy Grant followed, but he had a lot of input into it and it was him and Sheridan who interpreted what it meant. Sheridan was not honorable, but cunning. I'm not sure what to make of this in light of whether Sherman was honorable or not - I didn't do it...he did! Hmmm... While no friend of the Indian, Sherman felt it was a matter of duty and of honor to complete his mission in the West. His terms were simple and the same as for the South: Knuckle under and we'll get along fine - fight me, and you'll lose everything you ever had or ever will have.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Excuse me - what does this quote have to do with what makes Sherman honorable?

Read what I quoted lol.
I was pointing out that Sherman might not have been the fiercest.