What is this?

[ranger326]

Hello all,

After several weeks posting this thread under, what I assumed, was the appropriate forum, I was getting no responses. Not even guesses. Besides posting, I have also made the rounds showing this item in person to various acquaintances of the expert knowledgeable type. No help other than getting a growing consensus that this implement might be more likely to be identified and/or used by a woman of the 18th century as opposed to a man. The object has a "delicate" feel or quality about it. The inside curved edge is very sharp. Could this implement have been used in connection with sewing? Thoughts?

(Original post)
"When I bought a couple of assorted cartridges from the Philippine Insurrection, this unusual implement was included in the sale. I have no idea what it is. A handwritten note that accompanies it describes it as "some sort of percussion gun tool." Could it have anything to do with artillery or with late 1800's small arms? Any ideas?"

Darren

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[ole]

Beats the hell outa me. However, I am nowhere near an arms expert.

 

[Patrick H]

It's an interesting artifact for sure. I wish I could tell you what it is, but I'm ignorant about it.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Hello all,

After several weeks posting this thread under, what I assumed, was the appropriate forum, I was getting no responses. Not even guesses. Besides posting, I have also made the rounds showing this item in person to various acquaintances of the expert knowledgeable type. No help other than getting a growing consensus that this implement might be more likely to be identified and/or used by a woman of the 18th century as opposed to a man. The object has a "delicate" feel or quality about it. The inside curved edge is very sharp. Could this implement have been used in connection with sewing? Thoughts?

(Original post)
"When I bought a couple of assorted cartridges from the Philippine Insurrection, this unusual implement was included in the sale. I have no idea what it is. A handwritten note that accompanies it describes it as "some sort of percussion gun tool." Could it have anything to do with artillery or with late 1800's small arms? Any ideas?"

Darren

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Just a guess, it may be a seam ripper/stitch opener. Fabric was reused again and again. Nothing went to waste- also, some garments were taken apart just to wash. It is just a guess but am guess those garments were tacked in place with a simple running stitch. Something like this, a small, curved blade could have been helpful.

 

[Northern Light]

Could it be a cigar cutter?

 

[unicornforge]

It does not resemble in any way, any gun tool, artillery tool, or cigar cutter that I have ever seen in any books. Period gun tools tended to have at least one flat, screwdriver shaped end on them.

It was likely made as a single one-of-a-kind item, and as such whomever made it is not around to tell us what it was made for. A lot of one-of-a-kind items are still out there. As the saying goes, "form follows function". If an item can not be used for a theorized purpose, then it is not likely to be made for that purpose.

 

[E_just_E]

tent peg

 

[Northern Light]

toothpick? pipe reamer?

 

[Allie]

Just a guess, it may be a seam ripper/stitch opener. Fabric was reused again and again. Nothing went to waste- also, some garments were taken apart just to wash. It is just a guess but am guess those garments were tacked in place with a simple running stitch. Something like this, a small, curved blade could have been helpful.

That was my thought but I'm not sure how you would gracefully hold on to it while using the blade. In fact I can't see a good way of holding on to it period.

Could it have had a handle, or other parts, which did not survive?

 

[dlofting]

That was my thought but I'm not sure how you would gracefully hold on to it while using the blade. In fact I can't see a good way of holding on to it period.

Could it have had a handle, or other parts, which did not survive?

I was thinking along this line and that the longer piece might of been a tang....not sure why it would be curved though.

 

[13th Missouri Cavalry]

Just a guess, it may be a seam ripper/stitch opener. Fabric was reused again and again. Nothing went to waste- also, some garments were taken apart just to wash. It is just a guess but am guess those garments were tacked in place with a simple running stitch. Something like this, a small, curved blade could have been helpful.

If that was a seam ripper..... it would have been for some monstrous stitches.

 

[unicornforge]

Edward Scissorhand's great-great-great-grandfather's finger knife.

 

[M.Warren]

I've seen something very similar. It looks like a homemade bootstrap corn or cane stalk cutter. It would have leather straps with holes in them like a belt, running from the eye around your boot, and under your boot heel with and hooking through the holes at the tongs. I've seen them worn forward and down on the outside of your boot/leg, so when you grab a stalk you just give it a swift kick and there you go. I've seen them that size and larger, too. Could have been made for a lady or child maybe? I had a homemade one here somewhere that was made from an old iron stable door latch mech, and it was about that size. I'll see if I can dig it up to compare. That's all I got. If its not a stalk cutter, I'm at a loss on this one. Good luck!

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

I've seen something very similar. It looks like a homemade bootstrap corn or cane stalk cutter. It would have leather straps with holes in them like a belt, running from the eye around your boot, and under your boot heel with and hooking through the holes at the tongs. I've seen them worn forward and down on the outside of your boot/leg, so when you grab a stalk you just give it a swift kick and there you go. I've seen them that size and larger, too. Could have been made for a lady or child maybe? I had a homemade one here somewhere that was made from an old iron stable door latch mech, and it was about that size. I'll see if I can dig it up to compare. That's all I got. If its not a stalk cutter, I'm at a loss on this one. Good luck!

This makes the most sense so far- you'd have to imagine maybe sugar cane? Those would require cutting close to the ground. The seam ripper I'd been imagining has had great arguments against it.

OH wait- what did the dreadful spurs look like ' cockers ' put on fighting fowl? They were curved and extremely sharp.

 

[M.Warren]

This makes the most sense so far- you'd have to imagine maybe sugar cane? Those would require cutting close to the ground. The seam ripper I'd been imagining has had great arguments against it.

OH wait- what did the dreadful spurs look like ' cockers ' put on fighting fowl? They were curved and extremely sharp.

I first considered the exact same thing, and even now think it is a definite possibility, that could be exactly what it is. I've never seen any that large personally, but I did find a few on the web that could pass for the above pictures twin. I guess its quite obvious we're not a group, big on "cockfighting", here on the forum, lol. I seems too obvious now that I located the picture below. Looks like you nailed this one after all, JPK Huson.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

I first considered the exact same thing, and even now think it is a definite possibility, that could be exactly what it is. I've never seen any that large personally, but I did find a few on the web that could pass for the above pictures twin. I guess its quite obvious we're not a group, big on "cockfighting", here on the forum, lol. I seems too obvious now that I located the picture below. Looks like you nailed this one after all, JPK Huson.

Really? My goodness- interesting! How gruesome. Sheer guess based on what the blazes required the bizarre attachment. Well, that and a curved blade- once ( and only once, it was dreadful ) read an account of cockfighting. Explained a LOT, like how chickens could kill each other. This is how.

 

[ole]

Really? My goodness- interesting! How gruesome. Sheer guess based on what the blazes required the bizarre attachment. Well, that and a curved blade- once ( and only once, it was dreadful ) read an account of cockfighting. Explained a LOT, like how chickens could kill each other. This is how.

The rooster has a natural spur. If it is that, and it looks like it is, it was to add lethality to the fight.

I'll suppose that there is a certain element that enjoys a sport of creatures trying to kill each other, but I would very much like to see that element get in the ring and try to kill each other.

 

[18thVirginia]

On the other hand, fighting cocks lead pretty privileged lives until they get killed in the ring, probably much longer than other chickens, or than your average rooster that attacks a farm wife whenever he gets a chance.

My uncle and grandfather each raised fighting cocks for awhile. My grandfather didn't raise many and didn't fight them, just sold them, but they each had their own little tin-roofed house. My uncle raised a lot of them for awhile--as a child I was terrified at going by their houses, they would fly up toward me. I never saw any fights, so I don't know about those. A neighbor had some rescue chickens that he asked me to feed once while he was out of town--I had to think a moment before agreeing. But they were extremely tame and friendly.

We had this photo of a Civil War cockfight in another thread:

And here are some of the metal "gaffs".

http://twonerdyhistorygirls.blogspot.com/2012/12/spurs-for-cockfighting-c-1765-1800.html

 

[ranger326]

Wow!
I'm convinced! Who'd thought that a trail that starts as "some kind of percussion gun tool" would lead, to of all things, an item related to cock-fighting!!! Excellent detective work by JPK Hudson and M. Warren!

d