What is it?

[hrobalabama]

There is much discussion about the Remington Zouave never being issued.
One must have been captured and sent South. Almost the exact replica was produced by the Georgia Armory in Milledgville.
About 400 were made.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Georgia Armory Rifle: If you will look closely you will see the front half, from the lock plate forward, is copied from the Harper's Ferry 1855 Rifle (Remington "Zouave" is not), which is also the basis for the Fayetteville Rifle. From the lock plate rearward the Georgia Armory Rifle is exactly like the Harper's Ferry 1855 Rifle (Remington "Zouave" is not). This leaves the lock plate area proper which is a copy of the M-1841 Rifle, aka 1841 Mississippi Rifle, which includes the bolster of the barrel (as is the Remington "Zouave"). The Georgia Armory Rifle is a blend of Harper's Ferry/Fayetteville Rifle and 1841 Mississippi Rifle. The 1863 Remington Rifle, aka "Zouave", is a blend of a M-1841 Rifle, aka "Mississippi" and Remington's imagination.
J.

 

[kevikens]

I have often wondered just why these were made and then never issued?
Some are stamped "NJ" and it seems most of the "NJ" were never issued except to some state militias.
I know that it is a modification of the Mississippi Rifle; the smaller patch box, different barrel bands, etc
Why would the gov't pay to have these arms made and then just stored away? Flayderman said that 12,500 were made.
One in excellent condition is valued at $4,500.

Navy Arms was located in Ridgefield, NEW JERSEY

 

[hrobalabama]

Georgia Armory Rifle: If you will look closely you will see the front half, from the lock plate forward, is copied from the Harper's Ferry 1855 Rifle (Remington "Zouave" is not), which is also the basis for the Fayetteville Rifle. From the lock plate rearward the Georgia Armory Rifle is exactly like the Harper's Ferry 1855 Rifle (Remington "Zouave" is not). This leaves the lock plate area proper which is a copy of the M-1841 Rifle, aka 1841 Mississippi Rifle, which includes the bolster of the barrel (as is the Remington "Zouave"). The Georgia Armory Rifle is a blend of Harper's Ferry/Fayetteville Rifle and 1841 Mississippi Rifle. The 1863 Remington Rifle, aka "Zouave", is a blend of a M-1841 Rifle, aka "Mississippi" and Remington's imagination.
J.

I will try to get some shots in the daylight. Using a flash is not clear.

 

[63springfield]

Holy craptastic Rocky !! Sorry about the puddle of drool . Don't care about the politics of this - If that's real and I assume it is You win !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems to me ACW items in NICE shape are definitely around . What really helps is the apparent over ordering and subsequent un-issued valid wartime stocks of many items . Anywayz please put some oil or grease on the steel parts . Looks to be some minor active rust there . NICE RIFLE

 

[TinCan]

Anyone wanna buy a $600 toilet seat? Bought by the government, never used, be the first one on your block

 

[63springfield]

Good one !!!! Very interesting example . What does a US - CS military accepted toilet seat from 1861-1865 look like ? Is it maker marked , dated and cartouched ? Assuming it's wood ? If yes has it been properly stored-cared for the last 150+ years ? Was it intended to be standard issue ? If yes to all I may be interested .

 

[TinCan]

63,
SHOW ME THE MONEY!

 

[Camp Randall Armory]

Actually three states (North Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama) had contracts that were "updates" on the M1841 rifle. They all followed the same basic pattern-M1841 33" .58 rifled barrel, brass furniture, two bands and a nose cap. The rifle in my avatar is a reproduction of the most common of those, a Mendenhall, Jones, and Gardner NC State rifle. I'm actually in the business of taking old repro Zouaves and turning them into these CS rifles. Also I should note the rifle hrobalabama is a reproduction.

 

[63springfield]

63,
SHOW ME THE MONEY!

You're it . Show me stuff !!!!
Camp Randall , Thanks a bunch for the heads up on the level of skill being applied to these . Would have been a rude shock to buy one from someone that neglected to point that little detail out and find out later . Guess I don't know if any skirmishers or re-enactors would stoop that low but I definitely know some dealers that would . Nice work and quite convincing . We must be cautious .

 

[TinCan]

Good one 63
AAhh......might you be interested in a bridge I own up north?

 

[hrobalabama]

Actually three states (North Carolina, Georgia, and Alabama) had contracts that were "updates" on the M1841 rifle. They all followed the same basic pattern-M1841 33" .58 rifled barrel, brass furniture, two bands and a nose cap. The rifle in my avatar is a reproduction of the most common of those, a Mendenhall, Jones, and Gardner NC State rifle. I'm actually in the business of taking old repro Zouaves and turning them into these CS rifles. Also I should note the rifle hrobalabama is a reproduction.

Well its a defarb from Lodgewood. It is supposed to be a reproduction from #25 an original GA. Armory.
I have had it awhile and it is a good shooter. It is NASSA aproved. I like its 34" barrel.

 

[63springfield]

TinCan , If you are talkin the Brooklyn bridge I already have a down payment on it . Deal is held up though as there seems to be some paperwork issues regarding transferrable title . Darn lawyers anyway . Anywayz good to see a sense of humor and thanks for that . FWIW I am aware that being just a collector makes me odd man out here but I really do try to behave and play nice .

 

[Poor Private]

Excellent story , Puts it in a special category . Bet it made him happy seeing it in " action " .
Really looking forward to musket hunting this fall !!! BP season is in Dec here so it will be plenty cold .
Not my part to comment on the rules about what can or cannot be used . Sounds like it is one of the rules that all go by . I can understand that .
Will say though after looking into these a little a real nice - sanely priced original example would be welcome here !!!!!

There are no universal rules. What it boils down to is that every reenactment and it's committee have their own rules.
And until someone can show me definitivly that there were none at all (same with the Roger&Spencer revolvers). I will not berate anyone who brings one to an event(unless rules state otherwise). And not only that who among us has the perfect outfit that can point out, or banish someone who does bring one?

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Just a few comments and observations.

63springfield - Don't sell yourself short as "...being just a collector...", for if it weren't for the untiring efforts of the "collectors" doing the majority of the research over the past 60 odd years we wouldn't know anywhere as much as we do today!

The Georgia Armory Rifle was not too difficult to spot as not being original, as evidenced by the lettering on the lock plate being the wrong size and too far up the tail of the plate; and the patch box profile at the tab transition is incorrect.

As for the Remington 1863 Rifle having been the pattern for the Georgia Armory Rifle, it is not possible because the Georgia Armory Rifles were being delivered in 1862, long before Remington ever finished their first one!

Again, regarding the lack of evidence of the ACW war time use of the Remington 1863 Rifle the comment above of "...until someone can show me definitivly that there were none at all...", actually the shoe is on the other foot. It is up to someone to actually prove they were used. There is no presentable archaeological evidence (other than elusive rumors of seemingly non-existent artifacts), nor is there any photographic evidence. You can find original period photographs of every known arm used in the ACW, except for the Remington 1863 Rifle.

J.

 

[James N.]

There are no universal rules. What it boils down to is that every reenactment and it's committee have their own rules.
And until someone can show me definitivly that there were none at all (same with the Roger&Spencer revolvers). I will not berate anyone who brings one to an event(unless rules state otherwise). And not only that who among us has the perfect outfit that can point out, or banish someone who does bring one?

One problem with this idea is trying to fit it into a line of battle without making the entire company look like a bunch of farbs. ( Spoken as a a former company officer. ) Of course most who would want to try to get one in would probably be some sort of cowboy anyway who would know nothing of any sort of drill other than mess call, on the usual grounds that Confederates didn't drill anyway but shot from behind bushes like their ancestors had in the Revolution.