What are the odds?

4thMichigan

Private
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Years ago, when I was seriously collecting Civil War hard images, I found myself in an extremely exciting, and then terribly tragic experience. I had attended a Civil War collector's show in Ohio and became the lucky owner of the sixth plate ambrotype on the right. As you can see, there were many reasons that it appealed to me. Its condition was pristine, and the quality of the photographer's work was just about perfect. The backdrop was exceptional and very artistic, unlike most others that I had seen. The artist's detail in the tree's foliage that had been put on canvas almost stole from the military presence of the young soldier whose "likeness" was being taken. And as for the young Union soldier, he was a perfect example of a youth who seemed to be realizing the consequences of enlisting in a war which was meant truly for men. I say that he was not quite a man yet and probably 15-17 years old, as upon examination, you could easily see the acne on his chin and cheeks. The only flaw of the photographer's work that day, was that he had positioned the young man improperly under his studio's skylight which resulted in the shadowing of almost half of the facial features of the young man. In spite of that minor detail, I was still very pleased and honored to have added the photo to my collection, especially as it had once been a "favorite" in the collection of a fellow image collector for several years.
Within a year of my acquisition, much to my amazement, I found the sixth plate ambrotype of the exact same soldier posted for sale on Ebay. There was no doubt in my mind that I had to reunite the two images by being the high bidder at the end of the auction. It was a very brutal CW images market back then and very competitive. However, after paying a fairly hefty price, I did end up becoming it's new owner. Now I need to point out, that when I purchased the ambrotype on the left on Ebay, there absolutely no cracks in the photo, or I probably wouldn't have bid on it (I'm like that about images). As you can clearly see, the photographer had the soldier remain in the same position as he did in the first image. You'll notice that the young soldier must have gotten impatient and moved his hands a little before the second image was taken. While a few of the overcoat's wrinkles were smoothed out, the majority of them are in place from the previous take. But the photographer's corrective measure in position the sitter under better lighting in order to illuminate his full face was ultimately successful.
So now about the cracks. The Ebay seller was actually a coin dealer from the northeastern states and told me that the photograph was a "trunk in the attic" find out that way. My image was purchased from a midwestern area collector / dealer, which only added to the mystery of the separation of these two ambrotypes somewhere in time. Anyways, the Ebay seller wrapped up the ambrotype in a layer or two of bubble wrap, put them in a box that was originally used for a pair of women's gloves, and then enclosed that in a bubble mailer. And that was how it was shipped to me. Upon receiving the package and then anxiously opening the bubble wrapped glove box, I found that the image had been cracked sometime in its mailing. It doesn't take much imagination to guess how I felt at the time. Sad isn't a strong enough word to convey what I felt. Add frustration and some anger, and you're getting close. Reuniting those two images that were taken about 150 years prior (at the time of my purchase), was supposed to have a completely different response on my part. And what troubled me the most, was that it was simply because someone cut some corners to save a little expense and time, rather than making sure that the image remained safe for future collectors and historians.
So, here's my question for those of you...How many of you have had a similar experience with photographs? This was a rather rare occurrence, where two separate but similar images of the same soldier which were taken only minutes apart about 150 years ago, were reunited with hundreds of miles between them. Finding a duplicate image of your cdv or albumen photograph is a different coincidence and one that would be more common than this case. I'm just wondering....what are the odds?

67609306_10219959842575370_4556704467034046464_o.jpg
 
Any studio session would have had several photos taken. For the standard negative wet plates, they would have taken several to ensure they had one good copy. These studio photos were taken in relatively poor light - despite the glazed wall and skylight - and would have necessitated a long pose - up to ten minutes in the the early days but several minutes by this time. Getting the right exposure was done by trial and error and any movement would blur the image. This would only be detected on development, unless that movement was obvious. (Whatever you do, DON'T SNEEZE!) Once you had one good negative plate, prints would be taken from that - all the same.

For the direct prints - ambrotype, tintype, etc - there was one positive, mirrored, image, but no negatives. However, they were the cheaper and more available option. If you wanted more than one copy, one for your parents, one for each sibling, etc., that meant sitting for each one and that could mean a different pose for each one. You were lucky in finding two of them as many will have vanished in the intervening years. Note the different exposure on these two.

BTW - On the Internet, I have seen outside photos (wetplate) of different companies of the same regiment - 44th Indiana Infantry - in the same place. You can tell the ones who moved!
 
@4thMichigan the most well known example of a Civil War soldier having multiple ambrotypes taken was the postmortem of Turner Ashby. I know of seven (there might be more) that were taken and I empathize this is a postmortem image.


IMG_0944.jpeg


Ambrotypes and tintypes were relatively expansive for the common Civil War soldier to have multiples taken. Along came the CDV which was an inexpensive process and a soldier could have eight images taken at one time.


"Each ambrotype was one of a kind. If a soldier wanted more than one copy, he had to sit for another exposure or have the original ambrotype copied."


"Carte de Visite:
The carte de visite portrait was introduced by André Adolphe-Eugène Disdéri in 1854. The carte de visite was a small portrait glued to a card measuring 4 inches high by 2 1/2 inches wide. Made with a four-lens camera with sliding plate holder (which permitted eight exposures to be taken on one plate), cartes de visite images were printed from wet collodion negatives on albumen paper. With the production of a negative, it was possible to make multiple copies of each image.

The emergence of the carte de visite hastened the demise of the daguerreotype, which could not compete with this cheaper, faster, easily reproducible, less fragile, more portable form of photograph. The carte de visite format was extremely popular in the United States during, and persisted beyond, the Civil War.

Middle-class people made a hobby of collecting cartes de visite of family, friends, and prominent individuals in albums specially made for the purpose."

I know of three copies of this well known CDV of Sergeant Smith of the 12th Virginia, one of which is color tinted.


"Sergeant William Crawford Smith of Co. B, 12th Virginia Infantry Regiment in uniform with sword and holding Army of Northern Virginia battle flag] / E.S. Lumpkin & Co., photographers, two doors above Spotswood Hotel, Main St., Richmond, Va."

IMG_0946.jpeg

Even with rare WW II photos one must always remember there was a negative and multiple copies may exist. Finding a said copy maybe extremely difficult.

I've known noted Civil War photograph collectors such as Herb Peck, Bill Turner, Ronn Palm, Dave Mark and others. I've known of many hard plate images which were safely shipped without a problem. Wherever possible it's preferable to do a face to face pickup of an image (meet at a show, arrange to meet somewhere half way, you get the idea).

I feel your pain of having an image damaged in shipping. Obviously the dealer didn't properly pack the image. Your cracked image can be restored.

 
@4thMichigan the most well known example of a Civil War soldier having multiple ambrotypes taken was the postmortem of Turner Ashby. I know of seven (there might be more) that were taken and I empathize this is a postmortem image.


View attachment 500943

Ambrotypes and tintypes were relatively expansive for the common Civil War soldier to have multiples taken. Along came the CDV which was an inexpensive process and a soldier could have eight images taken at one time.


"Each ambrotype was one of a kind. If a soldier wanted more than one copy, he had to sit for another exposure or have the original ambrotype copied."


"Carte de Visite:
The carte de visite portrait was introduced by André Adolphe-Eugène Disdéri in 1854. The carte de visite was a small portrait glued to a card measuring 4 inches high by 2 1/2 inches wide. Made with a four-lens camera with sliding plate holder (which permitted eight exposures to be taken on one plate), cartes de visite images were printed from wet collodion negatives on albumen paper. With the production of a negative, it was possible to make multiple copies of each image.

The emergence of the carte de visite hastened the demise of the daguerreotype, which could not compete with this cheaper, faster, easily reproducible, less fragile, more portable form of photograph. The carte de visite format was extremely popular in the United States during, and persisted beyond, the Civil War.

Middle-class people made a hobby of collecting cartes de visite of family, friends, and prominent individuals in albums specially made for the purpose."

I know of three copies of this well known CDV of Sergeant Smith of the 12th Virginia, one of which is color tinted.


"Sergeant William Crawford Smith of Co. B, 12th Virginia Infantry Regiment in uniform with sword and holding Army of Northern Virginia battle flag] / E.S. Lumpkin & Co., photographers, two doors above Spotswood Hotel, Main St., Richmond, Va."

View attachment 500945
Even with rare WW II photos one must always remember there was a negative and multiple copies may exist. Finding a said copy maybe extremely difficult.

I've known noted Civil War photograph collectors such as Herb Peck, Bill Turner, Ronn Palm, Dave Mark and others. I've known of many hard plate images which were safely shipped without a problem. Wherever possible it's preferable to do a face to face pickup of an image (meet at a show, arrange to meet somewhere half way, you get the idea).

I feel your pain of having an image damaged in shipping. Obviously the dealer didn't properly pack the image. Your cracked image can be restored.

Multiple post mortem photos of Turner Ashby? This would make an interesting post in itself. How do you ID each copy? Are they in different cases?
 
Any studio session would have had several photos taken. For the standard negative wet plates, they would have taken several to ensure they had one good copy. These studio photos were taken in relatively poor light - despite the glazed wall and skylight - and would have necessitated a long pose - up to ten minutes in the the early days but several minutes by this time. Getting the right exposure was done by trial and error and any movement would blur the image. This would only be detected on development, unless that movement was obvious. (Whatever you do, DON'T SNEEZE!) Once you had one good negative plate, prints would be taken from that - all the same.

For the direct prints - ambrotype, tintype, etc - there was one positive, mirrored, image, but no negatives. However, they were the cheaper and more available option. If you wanted more than one copy, one for your parents, one for each sibling, etc., that meant sitting for each one and that could mean a different pose for each one. You were lucky in finding two of them as many will have vanished in the intervening years. Note the different exposure on these two.

BTW - On the Internet, I have seen outside photos (wetplate) of different companies of the same regiment - 44th Indiana Infantry - in the same place. You can tell the ones who moved!

As you have mentioned already, these ambrotype were one-of-a-kind images. Each individual image photograph would have been appealing to most Civil War image collectors on their own merit. What made that such a rare situation is in the actual reuniting of the two separate images. "The stars would have had to align just right", as they say, for that to have happened. I'm curious if anyone else has ever had a similar situation.
 
A week after purchasing the second sixth plate ambrotype shown in the posting above, I came across another image on Ebay that had a direct connection to another image in my collection! So, in the course of one week, I found two images with direct links to images that I owned. I had purchased the sixth plate tintype that's shown on the left from a CW dealer in Ohio because I thought that the two soldiers may possibly have been from the 4th Michigan Infantry. That assumption was due to the fact that I could make out the brass "4 Mich I" insignia mounted to the front of the blackened straw hat that the soldier on the left was holding down besides his right leg. I had owned this image for only a couple of months before coming across a smaller tintype image mounted on cardstock of that very same soldier actually wearing the that very same hat! Things were getting a little too weird as far as coincidences go. So, as with the previous situation, I bid seriously to become the owner of the smaller tintype in order to reunite it with my image of him and his comrade in arms. However, I was mildly disappointed when I found that the two soldiers were not actually from the Fourth Michigan Infantry. I say that because the smaller tintype image showed that the brass insignia on the hat clearly read "24 Mich I".
After I had contacted the seller of the cracked ambrotype in the previous posting, I found out that he had insured (actually underinsured) the photograph. He agreed to refund the full amount of my purchase, and that required me to return the image to him. And so I did, while providing him an example of how to properly ship a fragile glass photograph. I eventually sold the similar image that I owned to a friend. After finding that the images in this posting weren't of soldiers from the Fourth Michigan Infantry, I later sold them both together to another friend years later, when I began to focus my collecting interests to align with that regiment only.

24th Michigan Wearing a Straw Hat (a).jpg


67501819_10219959964218411_7596626480273031168_n.jpg


24th Michigan Wearing a Straw Hat (b).jpg
 
Years ago, when I was seriously collecting Civil War hard images, I found myself in an extremely exciting, and then terribly tragic experience. I had attended a Civil War collector's show in Ohio and became the lucky owner of the sixth plate ambrotype on the right. As you can see, there were many reasons that it appealed to me. Its condition was pristine, and the quality of the photographer's work was just about perfect. The backdrop was exceptional and very artistic, unlike most others that I had seen. The artist's detail in the tree's foliage that had been put on canvas almost stole from the military presence of the young soldier whose "likeness" was being taken. And as for the young Union soldier, he was a perfect example of a youth who seemed to be realizing the consequences of enlisting in a war which was meant truly for men. I say that he was not quite a man yet and probably 15-17 years old, as upon examination, you could easily see the acne on his chin and cheeks. The only flaw of the photographer's work that day, was that he had positioned the young man improperly under his studio's skylight which resulted in the shadowing of almost half of the facial features of the young man. In spite of that minor detail, I was still very pleased and honored to have added the photo to my collection, especially as it had once been a "favorite" in the collection of a fellow image collector for several years.
Within a year of my acquisition, much to my amazement, I found the sixth plate ambrotype of the exact same soldier posted for sale on Ebay. There was no doubt in my mind that I had to reunite the two images by being the high bidder at the end of the auction. It was a very brutal CW images market back then and very competitive. However, after paying a fairly hefty price, I did end up becoming it's new owner. Now I need to point out, that when I purchased the ambrotype on the left on Ebay, there absolutely no cracks in the photo, or I probably wouldn't have bid on it (I'm like that about images). As you can clearly see, the photographer had the soldier remain in the same position as he did in the first image. You'll notice that the young soldier must have gotten impatient and moved his hands a little before the second image was taken. While a few of the overcoat's wrinkles were smoothed out, the majority of them are in place from the previous take. But the photographer's corrective measure in position the sitter under better lighting in order to illuminate his full face was ultimately successful.
So now about the cracks. The Ebay seller was actually a coin dealer from the northeastern states and told me that the photograph was a "trunk in the attic" find out that way. My image was purchased from a midwestern area collector / dealer, which only added to the mystery of the separation of these two ambrotypes somewhere in time. Anyways, the Ebay seller wrapped up the ambrotype in a layer or two of bubble wrap, put them in a box that was originally used for a pair of women's gloves, and then enclosed that in a bubble mailer. And that was how it was shipped to me. Upon receiving the package and then anxiously opening the bubble wrapped glove box, I found that the image had been cracked sometime in its mailing. It doesn't take much imagination to guess how I felt at the time. Sad isn't a strong enough word to convey what I felt. Add frustration and some anger, and you're getting close. Reuniting those two images that were taken about 150 years prior (at the time of my purchase), was supposed to have a completely different response on my part. And what troubled me the most, was that it was simply because someone cut some corners to save a little expense and time, rather than making sure that the image remained safe for future collectors and historians.
So, here's my question for those of you...How many of you have had a similar experience with photographs? This was a rather rare occurrence, where two separate but similar images of the same soldier which were taken only minutes apart about 150 years ago, were reunited with hundreds of miles between them. Finding a duplicate image of your cdv or albumen photograph is a different coincidence and one that would be more common than this case. I'm just wondering....what are the odds?

View attachment 500926
IMG_0210.jpeg
IMG_0210.jpeg
 
Fort Smith, March 1862

Yesterday, 5 of McCulloch's staff, 2 Armstrongs, Lomax, Thornton and Dillon, had their ambrotypes taken in a group for me to take to you. Lt. Corser and Miller send theirs to Julius. Today, mine was taken 7 times for the above 5 and Montgomery and one for you - then Capt. Good made me sit with him to send to his wife.

John Henry Brown to wife

p. 27, I Do Wish this Cruel War Was Over, ed. M K Christ and P G Williams, 2018, U of Ark Press
 

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