Were Confederate Generals Traitors?

[CMWinkler]

Were Confederate Generals Traitors?

By Walter E. Williams | June 27, 2017 | 8:37 AM EDT



Expired Image Removed
At the 150th anniversary of the Civil War's Battle of Chancellorsville, a Confederate re-enactor issues orders to troops to get them into position during the re-enactment of Maj. Gen. Stonewall Jackson's flank attack against the Union XI Corps. (DOD Photo/Sgt. 1st Class Raymond J. Piper, Soldiers Live)
My "Rewriting American History" column of a fortnight ago, about the dismantling of Confederate monuments, generated considerable mail.

Some argued there should not be statues honoring traitors such as Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Jefferson Davis, who fought against the Union. Victors of wars get to write the history, and the history they write often does not reflect the facts. Let's look at some of the facts and ask: Did the South have a right to secede from the Union? If it did, we can't label Confederate generals as traitors.

More: http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/walter-e-williams/were-confederate-generals-traitors#disqus_thread

 

[NedBaldwin]

I'm paraphrasing Lincoln's first inaugural.

It follows from these views that no State upon its own mere motion can lawfully get out of the Union; that resolves and ordinances to that effect are legally void, and that acts of violence within any State or States against the authority of the United States are insurrectionary or revolutionary, according to circumstances.

Thanks. Wasnt sure what votes you meant.

 

[NedBaldwin]

Not really. Lincoln was living in fantasy land, not taking the wishes of millions seriously. He seemed to think a good stern scolding would keep them in line.

Yeah, a wiser man would have realized stern words would do no good and that he needed to get out the belt sooner

 

[Andersonh1]

Are you of the opinion that the size of a mob determines legality?

To what mob are you referring? All I'm saying is that if millions of people are disaffected enough to vote and declare themselves out of the Union, that might just be an indication of a problem worth giving one's full attention to.

 

[Andersonh1]

Yeah, a wiser man would have realized stern words would do no good and that he needed to get out the belt sooner

A different approach of some sort was certainly warranted.

And I suppose I'm waaaaay off topic, so I'll stop there.

 

[unionblue]

But as the C.S.A., they were a foreign Country, with it's own Constitution, President, Cabinet, Legislature & Army. They were NONE of the business of the U.S. After Secession !

No, they were NOT a foreign country, but they did TRY to become one through armed rebellion.

They were NEVER recognized as a foreign country by any other nation on earth.

And a section of the United States in armed rebellion is certainly the business of the United States.

 

[jgoodguy]

Not really. Lincoln was living in fantasy land, not taking the wishes of millions seriously. He seemed to think a good stern scolding would keep them in line.

Davis etc were living in a real time and place, not taking the wishes of millions of blacks seriously. He seemed to think a good whiff of gunpowder would keep them Yankees in line.

 

[19thGeorgia]

The CSA was not recognized by any sovereign state in the world.

...except for the Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw and Seminole.

 

[jgoodguy]

To what mob are you referring? All I'm saying is that if millions of people are disaffected enough to vote and declare themselves out of the Union, that might just be an indication of a problem worth giving one's full attention to.

If they are outlaws, then they are just an outlaw mob.

 

[jgoodguy]

...except for the Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw and Seminole.

Not soverign states.

 

[huskerblitz]

The DOI was an act of Congress. The actions of that Congress are treated as fully legal to this day so your rejection of the legality of that body is odd.

The DOI is included among the Organic Laws of the United States, as published currently by the US Congress, and Jefferson called it "the fundamental act of Union of these States".

The DOI is NOT law. One can argue it stems from some sort of natural law (same as law of the jungle or what have you, law of the 5-second rule, etc.) but it has no legal standing. Just try using it in a court and see what happens.

Sorta agree, the Constitution was the work of a committee with various potions and intents. While the DOI was the work or Jefferson, it was approved by a committee. The history of why is important, but the future determines. For example the DOI was for a republic of white property owners in 1776 by 1863 it became the property of all.

All law is in a state of flux and the future folks determine what it is.

I can agree with most of that.

 

[Rebforever]

There is law (the Constitution) that says it is illegal. This has been known for 200+ years and confirmed by the courts.

The courts were just, opinions. And there is no law to date.

 

[48th Miss.]

This strikes me as a reasonable and accurate opinion. Well, Dang!, I wish it weren't so, but we can't rewind more than 150 years of history, can we? US Army officers who left the Union to serve with the Confederacy were technically traitors, and there's no getting around it. I believe they followed their individual consciences, but that doesn't absolve them of their treason to the USA.

That said, please read on. I am a great believer in and follower of President Lincoln's remarks when he said: "With malice towards none. With Charity for all."

I'm right THERE with Mr. Lincoln....that's where our hearts should be with regard to our brethren.

I assume they were granted a discharge/rezigned there commission from the US Army. Would that not satisfy the arrangement they had with the Federal Govenment. They would only be traitors if they were in the Union Army but serving the CSA.
Just a thought. Officers serve today until they resign, or are not allowed to agument to active duty, get passed over for promotion or have have satisfied any obligation to serve in exchange for education at an Academy.

 

[unionblue]

...except for the Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw and Seminole.

Like I said, no nation in the world.

 

[19thGeorgia]

Not soverign states.

"The Cherokee Nation is the federally-recognized government of the Cherokee people and as such has sovereign status granted by treaty and law."
http://www.cherokee.org/Our-Government

 

[Southern Unionist]

They were NEVER recognized as a foreign country by any other nation on earth.

I take a more practical approach. For four years, the CSA functioned as a country; did all the things that a nation does, whether anybody else in the world approved or not.

 

[NedBaldwin]

The courts were just, opinions. And there is no law to date.

The law in this case is the Constitution; it has been there all along. Court opinions matter.

 

[NedBaldwin]

The DOI is NOT law.

It is law. I have provided several reasons why it is; you have come back with nothing but capital letters.

it has no legal standing. Just try using it in a court and see what happens.

What would I be using it for?

The Supreme Court used it in 1796 as the legal demarcation of the start of the country ("I have ever considered it as the established doctrine of the United States, that their independence originated from, and commenced with, the declaration of Congress, on the 4th of July, 1776") and have more recently used it as a statement of fundamental principles ("principle of inherent equality that underlies and infuses our Constitution. See Declaration of Independence" -- Judge Thomas, 1995)

 

[jgoodguy]

"The Cherokee Nation is the federally-recognized government of the Cherokee people and as such has sovereign status granted by treaty and law."
http://www.cherokee.org/Our-Government

Sounds like not really soverign to me.

 

[Jimklag]

I take a more practical approach. For four years, the CSA functioned as a country; did all the things that a nation does, whether anybody else in the world approved or not.

Not everything a country does. They did not have diplomatic relations for one, even with Mexico with whom one of their states shared a border.

 

[cash]

Everyone from grandma that gave her wedding band to the cause, woman that pieced work for the CSA, drummer boys, aliens under the sovereignty of the CSA etc levied war in some manner.

Nope. We have an official legal definition of levying war, and that is an organized body of armed men in the field. Grandma wasn't levying war.