Forrest We will throw the sheriff overboard

[Lazy Bayou]

In one of the books I read about General Nathan Bedford Forrest a story was related how after the war a deputy had arrested the General and was escorting him back to Memphis so he could be in court. While on the steamer headed to Memphis some Union soldiers recognized Forrest and befriended him. They offered to throw the deputy overboard so the General could escape. Can anyone offer input as to the accuracy of this story and if so please add any details that you can substantiate.

 

[diane]

That story isn't exactly true. After the war, Forrest was arrested and tried for murder. He was picked up by Tennessee marshals at Green Grove, but no one tried to free him en route to Memphis. He would not have allowed it in any event as he had surrendered himself. That's the only time Forrest was ever arrested after the war. Where did you read this, may I ask? I've never seen it before.

 

[johan_steele]

Actually, I've seen a reference to the incident as well though never any documentation. Frankly, I'd like to believe it true but just don't know.

 

[Lazy Bayou]

diane:

I agree with what you're saying I was just trying to be brief. I read the story in either 'In Search Of The Inigma' or 'A Battle From The Start' Forrest did refuse their offer and was acquitted when he went to court in Memphis. He was arrested, I think, for killing one of the 'freedmen' on Green Grove who had abused his wife and when Forrest went to the cabin the man attacked him and Forrest dispatched him with an axe. I don't have either book handy but I'm wanting to think it was in 'A Battle From The Start' The story I read said it was the local deputy sherrif who went to Forrest's home and found it to be surrounded by the people living on his place. He told the deputy to come on in and they would leave for Memphis the next morning. I'm not saying it's a true story, just relating what I read. Like johan_steel, I'd like to believe it to be true but there's so many tales about the General it's hard to tell. I wish Larry Cockerham were around, he'd know for sure.

One thing that interests me is that since the killing took place on Green Grove in Coahoma County, Mississippi why would Tennessee marshalls be picking him up?

 

[diane]

Dang good question cuz that was a Mississippi sheriff and his boys! I'm sorry. You have the basic facts pretty much right.

Yes, the matter of a black man's killing was the only time Forrest was arrested. He was the first white man in Mississippi to be tried for the killing of a black man, and the first to be exonerated by black testimony. The man was one who had served clear through the war in Forrest's service and had been hired after to work on the plantation. There had been a cholera outbreak and a drainage ditch was being dug to take off stagnant water - the man had not done his part correctly and Forrest told him to re-do it. Instead he swore and walked off the job, going into his cabin to beat his wife. Since he said he would beat her to death and other blacks could not stop him, they went to Forrest for help. He went to the cabin and found the man beating his wife and threatening his teenage niece. Forrest inserted himself between the man and his niece. The girl was behind Forrest - he was trying to back out of the cabin with the girl behind him so she didn't see the knife Forrest saw. He went for a kindling hatchet, the man saw the blow coming and turned his head, receiving it on the back of his skull. That is why they thought it was murder - the blow was seemingly delivered from behind. (If not for the niece's eye witness account, Forrest might well have been convicted.) He went to his house on the plantation and it was soon surrounded by black men, many of whom had come from Memphis. Many were also veterans who had sworn to avenge Ft Pillow, so Forrest was in a bind. He and his family, with a right arsenal of weapons, holed up in the house. (It's fairly certain Forrest's family included Willie, Bill and Jesse - formidable guys to say the least.) The blacks were unarmed, which is significant. Forrest popped out onto his porch with a pistol in each hand and told the men he did not want violence, he wanted justice but that he would defend his family. Then he popped back inside. That seemed fair enough to the blacks and they just lit fires around the place so he would not escape and waited. When the sheriff showed up, he knocked on the door and, after identifying himself, asked, "General, am I going to have any trouble with you?" "You got me," replied Forrest with great relief!

I don't think the story you mention is entirely true. He had many Union friends, too. James Wilson and John Wilder were a couple, and his partners at Green Grove were seven young Union soldiers. But if anyone had tried to intervene - and I really don't think this happened - Forrest would have declined. Once Forrest surrendered to the cops, it was a matter of honor to stand trial. The great lynch pin of Forrest's life was honor. It may seem unimportant in today's world, but to really understand Forrest and why he was who he was, did what he did, one needs to understand the Southern code of honor in that day. When one looks at him in that light, everything about him changes.

 

[Lazy Bayou]

diane:

Sorry to be so long in getting back to this but I finally found this in 'A_Battle_From_The_Start' by Brian Steel Wills, page 329. I have no other documentation to refute it. As johan_steele said below I'd like to believe it to be true. You were right about it being "honor" with him.

The next morning after Forrest had been arrested he suggested they take a steamer into Friar's Point where court was to be held. When the boat arrived at the landing it was filled with Federal soldiers. Forrest asked the deputy to not divulge his identity "for fear of being insulted." The deputy agreed but the soldiers pestered him repeatedly wanting to know if if wasn't General Forrest. Forrest then agreed to let them know who he was and the result was quite unexpected. Insted of being insulted by them he was very much honored and lionized. Nothing on the boat was too good for him. They were dined and champagned by the soldiers. Forrest explained to them how he came to be on the boat and the Federals offered to toss the deputy "in the river" and take the General on to Memphis with them. Forrest demurred "No, I prefer getting off at Friar's Point," he explained, noting his desire to have the affair over with. He assured his benefactors that he did not anticipate any trouble and when they reached Friar's Point he and the deputy left the boat.

The footnote references "Sherard interview, July 22, 1936. Carnegie Public Library, Clarksdale, MS, pp15-17"

 

[Glorybound]

The next morning after Forrest had been arrested he suggested they take a steamer into Friar's Point where court was to be held. When the boat arrived at the landing it was filled with Federal soldiers. Forrest asked the deputy to not divulge his identy "for fear of being insulted." The deputy agreed but the soldiers pestered him repeatedly wanting to know if if wasn't General Forrest. Forrest then agreed to let them know who he was and the result was quite unexpected. Insted of being insulted by them he was very much honored and lionized. Nothing on the boat was too good for him. They were dined and champagned by the soldiers. Forrest explained to them how he came to be on the boat and the Federals offered to toss the deputy "in the river" and take the General on to Memphis with them. Forrest demurred "No, I prefer getting off at Friar's Point," he explained, noting his desire to have the affair over with. He assured his benefactors that he did not anticipate any trouble and when they reached Friar's Point he and the deputy left the boat.

Very cool story. I'd also like to believe that it is true...

Lee

 

[TerryB]

Wheeler was also tired for murder in Alabama in 1871-72, because an associate of his shot and killed a man for spousal abuse. Wheeler was outspoken against the Reconstruction government and the trial was politically motivated. Since Wheeler did not do the shooting, he was acquitted. The story is so little known that I was unable to find it on the web, even though an Alabama newspaper revisited it within the last five years or so.

 

[diane]

TerryB,

That is a good story! I think there was a bit of a campaign by some people at that time to get ex-Confederates behind bars one way or another - might be mistaken, but I do think some people thought if the government wasn't going to get the 'traitors' then they would!

 

[diane]

Lazy Bayou,

Ooh! I do dearly love this sort of stuff - and I'm really glad to be corrected. I've got "Battle from the Start", too, so I re-read it, then went looking for more info. Preliminary research results:

This incident DID happen. These soldiers who befriended him, or whom he befriended, were the same ones he partnered with on his plantation in Coahoma County Mississippi - near Sherard MS (and Clarksdale). Green Grove is just down the road. Wills cites Sherard's interview - Holmes Sherard bought the plantation sometime after the war and, as it happens, the plantation is today rather famous for their pecans! (Maybe Forrest should have tried pecans instead of cotton...) I think Sherard Sr bought the plantation from the soldiers in the 1870s - not certain, though.

This is why I like Forrest. Just when you think everything's been discovered, something else pops up!

http://www.stoppingpoints.com/mississippi/Coahoma/Forrest's+Plantation.html

 

[mulejack]

What a great scene out of a John Wayne Movie, a bunch of Union soldiers heaving a Sheriff off the boat to save a General they recently befriended.

Mulejack.

 

[TerryB]

TerryB,

That is a good story! I think there was a bit of a campaign by some people at that time to get ex-Confederates behind bars one way or another - might be mistaken, but I do think some people thought if the government wasn't going to get the 'traitors' then they would!

What really irked me about the story was that the [Decatur?] paper that looked into it a few years ago was very biased in the way they handled it. The reporter who wrote it up said something like, "Wheeler basically got away with murder."

 

[Lazy Bayou]

What a great scene out of a John Wayne Movie, a bunch of Union soldiers heaving a Sheriff off the boat to save a General they recently befriended.

Mulejack.

... and a Confederate General at that ...

John Wayne (one of my heroes) would have made a good General Forrest in a movie.

 

[mulejack]

Yep, exactly what I thought, but as a long time movie buff I don't believe John Wayne ever played a confederate officer. Someone may know otherwise I'm not going to rely on memory here. This forum has an amazing amount of knowledge on most topics.


Mulejack.

 

[diane]

Was he not an ex-Confederate officer in The Searchers? John Wayne was always very conservative in his views and a real 'my country right or wrong' type guy. Most of his roles reflected that in some way or other. He was not PC and neither was his sense of humor. One journalist reported coming to his house for an interview. While he was waiting in the living room he was surprised John Wayne's house wasn't very Western, except for a long line of kachina dolls going around the front of the room above the fireplace. He was startled when a booming voice behind him said, "Contrary to rumor, I did NOT kill and stuff those Indians!"

 

[Lazy Bayou]

Lazy Bayou,

Ooh! I do dearly love this sort of stuff - and I'm really glad to be corrected. I've got "Battle from the Start", too, so I re-read it, then went looking for more info. Preliminary research results:

This incident DID happen. These soldiers who befriended him, or whom he befriended, were the same ones he partnered with on his plantation in Coahoma County Mississippi - near Sherard MS (and Clarksdale). Green Grove is just down the road. Wills cites Sherard's interview - Holmes Sherard bought the plantation sometime after the war and, as it happens, the plantation is today rather famous for their pecans! (Maybe Forrest should have tried pecans instead of cotton...) I think Sherard Sr bought the plantation from the soldiers in the 1870s - not certain, though.

This is why I like Forrest. Just when you think everything's been discovered, something else pops up!

http://www.stoppingpoints.com/mississippi/Coahoma/Forrest's+Plantation.html

As long as I've got your approval on this incident no one will ever convince me otherwise. All I'll ever say is "Diane said so!!! end of conversation."

 

[Glorybound]

Copy that, if Diane verifies it that's enough for me. It happened.

 

[mulejack]

Again, the discussions along with the knowledge of these historical incidents mystifies me. The history buff in me just eats it up.

Mulejack

 

[diane]

Forrest had a few brushes with the law for somebody who had once been a constable! There was the Matlock affair, where all the survivors were arrested - they more or less just shut the door and opened it again for Forrest as a slew of witnesses confirmed he acted in self-defense. The Matlocks stayed put for awhile, which was aggravating to them. It gave Forrest a chance to find the one who killed his uncle without having to watch his back! (The Matlocks weren't much liked in Hernando...)

During the war, a federal judge in Memphis issued a warrant for his arrest for treason - the Tennessee marshal in charge of it just wrote on the back "Not in this jurisdiction." Probably after he got done rolling on the floor with laughter - three Union armies hadn't been able to arrest Forrest so a little ol' Tennessee marshal and his posse wasn't like to do it either!

He was fined for being a little lax in checking the documents of some men who were in his slave market who turned out to be free. That was a weird situation as a man who was travelling with a handful of slaves parked them in Forrest's jail then went off and had an argument with a guy who was supposed to buy them. The prospective customer shot the dealer, who staggered back to Forrest's house and died on the living room sofa. (That's what brought on the investigation as to the status of the slaves, three of whom weren't.) There was evidently more to this little episode than meets the eye and the authorities decided a fine would be fine. Forrest thought so, too, although he was scratching his head as well... Don't pay to poke into everything you're curious about!

Then a warrant was issued for Forrest's arrest for gambling - don't know how that turned out. I expect he either ignored it or paid a fine. Between 1840 and 1860 were the glory days of the famous riverboat gambler - flashy guys who were often card sharps who liked to lurk along the trade route for loaded pigeons coming back from the Gulf with cotton money. Sometimes got themselves lynched over it... So there was a crack-down in Mississippi on gambling - oops! Forrest, by the way, is still reckoned a master poker player, one of the pioneers of the game - read an article about him in a poker magazine a while back. When he went out for a game or two he looked the part - slick brocade vest, latest suit, polished shoes, neat hair and beard with nice stink-purty on! The rest of the time he pretty much looked like what he was - a farmer. Galluses, boots, wide brim straw hat. (Sure hope somewhere there is a photo of Forrest in a straw hat - I just have trouble picturing it!)

There was also always a day in court over some lawsuit or other, including a property dispute he and just about everybody in his family inherited from old Shadrack's days - great-grandpa was apparently a land speculator. Seemed as soon as a male Forrest turned 21 he was automatically a defendant in this lawsuit! (Which, apparently, had considerable to do with the above mentioned Matlock affair... Nothing like feudin' among kin!)

 

[Lazy Bayou]

Diane:

"Then a warrant was issued for Forrest's arrest for gambling - don't know how that turned out. I expect he either ignored it or paid a fine."

In the spring of 1861 the Coahoma County Grand Jury returned an indictment against Forrest for gambling. It stated that on February 25, 1861 Forrest "unlawfully then and there did play at and bet upon a certain game of cards..." Twice the Sheriff reported back that he could not find Forrest because "he was away at war." The court eventually dropped the charges.