Wagon photo question

[Poorlaggedman]

Hi.

I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on the three wagons in the photo attached? What type are they and what would they likely be doing together after the battle?

I'm pulling this out of the background of a Gardner stereo photo from Gettysburg linked below.

https://www.loc.gov/item/2018672105/



Thanks much

 

[Seduzal]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina. Just jump right in and enjoy.
Thanks for sharing this interesting photo. To me it looks like part of a supply wagon train although I'm not an expert on these things.

 

[Tom Elmore]

Two-horse vehicles were typically ambulances. Most wagon transportation in the Army of the Potomac would use four or six horses. However, given the location and date of the image, my best guess is civilian vehicles. Many sightseers came to Gettysburg following the battle, some interested in gathering souvenirs, and some who wanted to take items of value that were scattered all over the battlefield, although the latter was prohibited by the military authorities (provost marshal). Wagons of relief organizations like the Sanitary Commission were also present, although these were typically occupied in the town and at the hospitals. There were also burial parties, as well as citizens who contracted with relatives of the dead to exhume bodies for shipment home. Of course the photographers also employed vehicles.

Here's one mention: After the battle, some citizens plundering the field of horse equipments. I rode up to two or three men who had harness, saddles, and horse equipments in their possession - they were put to work burying the dead. (Henry C. Meyer, Gregg's HQS Cavalry)

 

[Frederick14Va]

Traveling Forge, Ambulance Wagon, Supply Wagon
Likely attached to an Artillery Battery or Cavalry Unit

 

[Larryh86GT]

Welcome from Western New York

 

[captaindrew]

Welcome from South Florida and the Reenactors Forum. Could it be the photographer's equipment? I've seen a similar image of the photographer's team and equipment.

 

[Lubliner]

Traveling Forge, Ambulance Wagon, Supply Wagon
Likely attached to an Artillery Battery or Cavalry Unit

I had thought it possible to be carrying tools for the burying details, and for gathering equipments, and possibly refreshment for mid-summer heat. Just guessing.
Edit add: Special Order Detachment.
Lubliner.

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome From The Heart Of Dixie. @Frederick14Va is correct on the forge.

 

[EJ Zander]

Thanks for zooming in on that. Really interesting to examine. Looks like the supply wagon is traveling light with only two hitched. The horse behind the ambu looks like it may be tethered.

 

[JOHN42768]

Welcome, enjoy.

 

[Lubliner]

From what I understood, the details for burial were still in process when the photographers arrived. Could the forge be used to start fires for burning horses, while the supply wagon for gathering equipments, and the ambulance in case of a survivor? The full picture shows the wreckage from the battle that may be where they were headed? Curious because somebody was detailed to do it, and there was need for the train. Thanks,
Lubliner.

 

[DixieRifles]

Traveling Forge, Ambulance Wagon, Supply Wagon

Welcome.

I wasn't sure since you mentioned Gardner, but I agree that the first one looks like a forge.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

what would they likely be doing together after the battle?

From reading accounts they could have been together picking up dead and wounded? There were still men laying out in the open days after the battle. It was a shambles out there, civilians hitched up wagons too, to look for wounded. I don't know this for a fact but you'd have to guess any wagon, not just ambulances were put into use.

 

[scone]

welcome to the site

 

[Poorlaggedman]

Thanks for the opinions. I too see a forge, an ambulance, and a supply/ordinance wagon. I was wondering if this might not be part of an artillery battery's supply train? Since those three components specifically are assigned to artillery batteries and all three will still be needed on campaign.

I've been studying Gardner's trip to Gettysburg for a couple years. One thing people like to forget with the Gardner/O'Sullivan/Gibson photos is that there was still 1-2 Union Infantry Corps on the battlefield at Gettysburg July 6th. The 3rd Corps brought up the rear. An officer in the 3rd Corps on July 6th wrote that:

"...Photographic artists have been busy in taking views upon the battlefield. Groups of the dead, graves, dead horses, and in fact almost everything forms the base of their operations..."
Unspoiled Heart: The Journal of Charles Mattocks of the 17th Maine

Another photo of unfinished Confederate graves shows more wagon trains. Unfortunately the writing on the wagon canvas seems to be illegible in the attached photo. For some reason it's assumed that these are part of the cleanup operation but I'd contend that they're in fact staged and ready to move out because the Gettysburg campaign is not over. The 1st Corps left in the morning of July 6th down the Emmitsburg Road and the 3rd left late the following night but were ready to move at a moments notice for much of the afternoon.

The attached photo is allegedly taken on the Rose Farm, near the barn, just off the Emmitsburg Road, showing more wagons staged and facing in the direction of the Emmitsburg Road.

Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Unfinished Confederate graves near the center of the battlefield

4 negatives (5 plates) : glass, stereograph, wet collodion.

www.loc.gov

 

[EJ Zander]

Thanks for the opinions. I too see a forge, an ambulance, and a supply/ordinance wagon. I was wondering if this might not be part of an artillery battery's supply train? Since those three components specifically are assigned to artillery batteries and all three will still be needed on campaign.

I've been studying Gardner's trip to Gettysburg for a couple years. One thing people like to forget with the Gardner/O'Sullivan/Gibson photos is that there was still 1-2 Union Infantry Corps on the battlefield at Gettysburg July 6th. The 3rd Corps brought up the rear. An officer in the 3rd Corps on July 6th wrote that:

"...Photographic artists have been busy in taking views upon the battlefield. Groups of the dead, graves, dead horses, and in fact almost everything forms the base of their operations..."
Unspoiled Heart: The Journal of Charles Mattocks of the 17th Maine

Another photo of unfinished Confederate graves shows more wagon trains. Unfortunately the writing on the wagon canvas seems to be illegible in the attached photo. For some reason it's assumed that these are part of the cleanup operation but I'd contend that they're in fact staged and ready to move out because the Gettysburg campaign is not over. The 1st Corps left in the morning of July 6th down the Emmitsburg Road and the 3rd left late the following night but were ready to move at a moments notice for much of the afternoon.

The attached photo is allegedly taken on the Rose Farm, near the barn, just off the Emmitsburg Road, showing more wagons staged and facing in the direction of the Emmitsburg Road.

View attachment 324513

Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Unfinished Confederate graves near the center of the battlefield

4 negatives (5 plates) : glass, stereograph, wet collodion.

www.loc.gov

You may be right. They have atleast four hitched on each wagon and the canvas in drawn in the back which would indicate that they are not actively working out of the back of the wagon.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Welcome to CWT from the Railroads & Steam Locomotives and The Naval War forums!

https://civilwartalk.com/forums/railroads-steam-locomotives.203/

https://civilwartalk.com/forums/the-naval-war.87/

Cheers and Enjoy!
USS ALASKA

 

[byron ed]

If it helps to point out, the first vehicle is as mentioned an Artillery battery "A" forge, a two-wheeled vehicle. In this photo it is attached to a limber (with a chest on it) so it can be pulled along in the manner of an articulated four-wheeled wagon, the usual method of transport. What this means in context of the photo is that the forge was not dropped off to stay in the area for any length of time,* but likely was expected to be moving on shortly.

* A blacksmith generally doesn't work until he can unload and arrange his weasel (set of implements) from the forge, including an anvil to place nearby on it's stump.

 

[byron ed]

...Could the forge be used to start fires for burning horses...Lubliner.

There's nothing needed in particular from the forge to enable the burning of horse carcasses. Anyone with a "lucifer" (match) could get that done.

In fact, unless the army was in a long-term camp, the burning or burying of horse carcasses was no priority at all, a needless stinking up of the immediate area for no good reason and a misuse of available manpower (can you image how big a hole is needed to deposit horse carcasses?).

More likely would be to leave the carcasses a couple days behind; enough time before they begin to stink on their own -- and by then they're someone else's problem, and only then if near where people live.

 

[Lubliner]

I have a distinct memory of reading which troops were being used on the burial details and which were still on the field, when the photographers came. I think William Frassanito may have been reciting journal entries from the photographers, and my attention was drawn by his 'detective' pursuits, similar to @Poorlaggedman's forte. One of the experts I am sure would most likely have knowledge of it.
Lubliner.