W. Va. ACW troops question

[Al Murray]

Since joining here I have been embarrassed to find out how little I know about my own state 1861-65. For example, I did not know how many of the 1861 WV recruits in the Union army were from other states. I've seen this pointed out here in various contexts. I recently posted a comment that all of my family (and many of their neighbors) who were Union soldiers were locals with deep roots here. In a separate discussion someone suggested that I read a book called "Lincoln and The War Governors" which I am doing now. In that book I learned that many northern governors had an overflow of volunteers, too many to absorb. I began to suspect that this was at least in part the cause of this outside enlistment in W. Va. Union units. Then I found this:

http://www.lindapages.com/wvcw/5wvc/5wvc.htm

"History of the 5th WV Cavalry, Formerly the Second WV Infantry..." by Frank S. Reader, 1890: The first company from Allegheny county, Pa., that entered the service of other states, was the organization that bore this name in the Second Virginia regiment. The company was organized in Pittsburgh and Allegheny .... It was among the first companies organized after the attack upon Fort Sumpter, and immediately tendered its services to Gov. Andrew G. Curtin of Pennsylvania. ... they sent Lieut. Smith to Harrisburg, personally to urge the acceptance of their services, presuming from the fact of his having recently been a member of the legislature, that he could prevail upon the Governor to accept them. The quota of the state having been filled, however, Lieut. Smith was informed that his company would have to wait another call for troops. The men now became impatient, and in the midst of the .. news ... that the enemy had captured Harper's Ferry, and taken possession of the Baltimore & Ohio railroad, were moving on the Pennsylvania line, and were menacing Wheeling, Va. The loyal people of Wheeling called for aid, and this company, then known as the "Washington Rifle Guards," chartered the steamer McCombs and took passage for Wheeling, arriving there on the 10th of May 1861. On the 21st of May 1861, Major James Oakes of the U. S. army, mustered them into the service of the United States for three years."

H. E. Matheny's book "Major General Thomas Maley Harris" is a history of the 10th WV infantry. He gives muster rolls for each company. Many in this unit were mustered later, late in 1861 or in 1862. Looking over the muster rolls I recognize many of the names and the places of residence listed and apparently all or the vast majority of this unit were native West Virginians, again many of them with deep WV roots.

The 2nd and 10th regiments are the only two WV units that I have read about in any depths, but I know that there were a lot of other WV Union units. I suspect that this influx of out of state troops was an anomaly and that the majority of the Union soldiers from WV were local but I don't know. My question: what would have been the rule and what the exception? Were the 1861 out of state troops the exception and the local troops the rule, or did West Virginia continue to depend heavily on out of state recruits for the US? I imagine that someone has already looked into this in the pase 150 years, but I have not found the results of the research. Can anyone point me to a source to answer the question of what portion of the WV Union troops were local and what portion not? Or does anyone know off the top of their head? Thanks!

 

[16thVA]

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-confederacy-americas-worst-idea.70405/page-7#post-1082085

 

[leftyhunter]

Since joining here I have been embarrassed to find out how little I know about my own state 1861-65. For example, I did not know how many of the 1861 WV recruits in the Union army were from other states. I've seen this pointed out here in various contexts. I recently posted a comment that all of my family (and many of their neighbors) who were Union soldiers were locals with deep roots here. In a separate discussion someone suggested that I read a book called "Lincoln and The War Governors" which I am doing now. In that book I learned that many northern governors had an overflow of volunteers, too many to absorb. I began to suspect that this was at least in part the cause of this outside enlistment in W. Va. Union units. Then I found this:

http://www.lindapages.com/wvcw/5wvc/5wvc.htm

"History of the 5th WV Cavalry, Formerly the Second WV Infantry..." by Frank S. Reader, 1890: The first company from Allegheny county, Pa., that entered the service of other states, was the organization that bore this name in the Second Virginia regiment. The company was organized in Pittsburgh and Allegheny .... It was among the first companies organized after the attack upon Fort Sumpter, and immediately tendered its services to Gov. Andrew G. Curtin of Pennsylvania. ... they sent Lieut. Smith to Harrisburg, personally to urge the acceptance of their services, presuming from the fact of his having recently been a member of the legislature, that he could prevail upon the Governor to accept them. The quota of the state having been filled, however, Lieut. Smith was informed that his company would have to wait another call for troops. The men now became impatient, and in the midst of the .. news ... that the enemy had captured Harper's Ferry, and taken possession of the Baltimore & Ohio railroad, were moving on the Pennsylvania line, and were menacing Wheeling, Va. The loyal people of Wheeling called for aid, and this company, then known as the "Washington Rifle Guards," chartered the steamer McCombs and took passage for Wheeling, arriving there on the 10th of May 1861. On the 21st of May 1861, Major James Oakes of the U. S. army, mustered them into the service of the United States for three years."

H. E. Matheny's book "Major General Thomas Maley Harris" is a history of the 10th WV infantry. He gives muster rolls for each company. Many in this unit were mustered later, late in 1861 or in 1862. Looking over the muster rolls I recognize many of the names and the places of residence listed and apparently all or the vast majority of this unit were native West Virginians, again many of them with deep WV roots.

The 2nd and 10th regiments are the only two WV units that I have read about in any depths, but I know that there were a lot of other WV Union units. I suspect that this influx of out of state troops was an anomaly and that the majority of the Union soldiers from WV were local but I don't know. My question: what would have been the rule and what the exception? Were the 1861 out of state troops the exception and the local troops the rule, or did West Virginia continue to depend heavily on out of state recruits for the US? I imagine that someone has already looked into this in the pase 150 years, but I have not found the results of the research. Can anyone point me to a source to answer the question of what portion of the WV Union troops were local and what portion not? Or does anyone know off the top of their head? Thanks!

I have to get up early but tomorrow will review Richard Currents classic book "Lincolns Loyalists Union soldiers from the South'. Keep in mind many Southerners joined out of state regiments and many other union regiments had soldiers from other states. Its kind of messy.
Leftyhunter

 

[Al Murray]

I have to get up early but tomorrow will review Richard Currents classic book "Lincolns Loyalists Union soldiers from the South'

Thanks!

 

[leftyhunter]

Thanks!

Hi Al,
I have to get ready for work soon so I will just skim for now"Lincoln's Loyalists Union Soldiers from the Confederacy" Richard Current Professor at Oxford Univ of Wis and Univ of Nc North Eastern Univ Press. Chapter 1 Virginia Volunteers.
The CW started early in Va p.6 (their was has you know now Wv until 1862) when Gov. Letcher ordered militias from 19 N.W. Counties to converge on Grafton,Va at the same time Unionists where forming their own militias. Col. George Porterfield CSA noted bitter feelings against the CSA. Has early has 1861 the pro Confederate forces where impressing men into CSA allied militia p.7. Gen.Wise CSA complained of hostility by the local people in the Kanawha Valley and wrote to Lee that 300 to 500 men of his militia deserted p.8. Sec of State Seward recommended and Lincoln approved
to have Col. Lander a native Virginian to recruit Va troops. Col. Lander recruited the 1st regiment of Va Infantry one re of the ten companies was composed of Ohioans and refuges from Va p.9.
Ward Lamon "a particular friend of Lincoln and US Marshall for Washington DC and a native of Fredric County Va volunteered to recruit Virginians. Lamon was able to recruit two regiments but had difficulty when CSA troops occupied parts of Va p.12&13. Lamon did have trouble expanding his command and was only allowed to recruit in one other state Md.
Sorry I am running out of time I will get back to you tomorrow
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Since joining here I have been embarrassed to find out how little I know about my own state 1861-65. For example, I did not know how many of the 1861 WV recruits in the Union army were from other states. I've seen this pointed out here in various contexts. I recently posted a comment that all of my family (and many of their neighbors) who were Union soldiers were locals with deep roots here. In a separate discussion someone suggested that I read a book called "Lincoln and The War Governors" which I am doing now. In that book I learned that many northern governors had an overflow of volunteers, too many to absorb. I began to suspect that this was at least in part the cause of this outside enlistment in W. Va. Union units. Then I found this:

http://www.lindapages.com/wvcw/5wvc/5wvc.htm

"History of the 5th WV Cavalry, Formerly the Second WV Infantry..." by Frank S. Reader, 1890: The first company from Allegheny county, Pa., that entered the service of other states, was the organization that bore this name in the Second Virginia regiment. The company was organized in Pittsburgh and Allegheny .... It was among the first companies organized after the attack upon Fort Sumpter, and immediately tendered its services to Gov. Andrew G. Curtin of Pennsylvania. ... they sent Lieut. Smith to Harrisburg, personally to urge the acceptance of their services, presuming from the fact of his having recently been a member of the legislature, that he could prevail upon the Governor to accept them. The quota of the state having been filled, however, Lieut. Smith was informed that his company would have to wait another call for troops. The men now became impatient, and in the midst of the .. news ... that the enemy had captured Harper's Ferry, and taken possession of the Baltimore & Ohio railroad, were moving on the Pennsylvania line, and were menacing Wheeling, Va. The loyal people of Wheeling called for aid, and this company, then known as the "Washington Rifle Guards," chartered the steamer McCombs and took passage for Wheeling, arriving there on the 10th of May 1861. On the 21st of May 1861, Major James Oakes of the U. S. army, mustered them into the service of the United States for three years."

H. E. Matheny's book "Major General Thomas Maley Harris" is a history of the 10th WV infantry. He gives muster rolls for each company. Many in this unit were mustered later, late in 1861 or in 1862. Looking over the muster rolls I recognize many of the names and the places of residence listed and apparently all or the vast majority of this unit were native West Virginians, again many of them with deep WV roots.

The 2nd and 10th regiments are the only two WV units that I have read about in any depths, but I know that there were a lot of other WV Union units. I suspect that this influx of out of state troops was an anomaly and that the majority of the Union soldiers from WV were local but I don't know. My question: what would have been the rule and what the exception? Were the 1861 out of state troops the exception and the local troops the rule, or did West Virginia continue to depend heavily on out of state recruits for the US? I imagine that someone has already looked into this in the pase 150 years, but I have not found the results of the research. Can anyone point me to a source to answer the question of what portion of the WV Union troops were local and what portion not? Or does anyone know off the top of their head? Thanks!

Hi Al,
Here is part 2. P.14 The Lamon Birgade was broken up and various units reassigned to other states P.16 and 17 the Union failed to provide enough equipment in 1861 to keep pace with enlistments.P.17 Sec of war Cameron requested after the defeat at Bull Run militia to guard Washington DC but Gov.pierpont said he had only 1,500 homeguards and they where needed to counter armed secessionists. P.18 by June 20 1862 the US Adjuant General reported 11,428 troops fro Virgina(Western) that is more troops then Nh,Vt, Ri, Cn, and Nj. P.19 Current lists which units of these troops where from other states I don't yet see an exact numerical break down. P.27 The US Provost Marshall credits Wv with 31,872 troops but that includes troops from Pa and Oh. The majority of Unionist troops from Wv and Va enlisted prior to 1863 so in reality they where really Va Unionist troops. the above figure does not include troops raised by Lamon and the Loudoun Rangers, Col.Wall's two companies and Company A of the 1st Loyal Virginia Infantry. Nor does it include militia units. their was a lot of COIN war in Wv so their is likely a lot of militia. P215 and 216 altogether between troops recruited in all of VA plus those who enlisted in out of state regiments Current estimates 30k Unionist troops not including home guards.
Their is a lot of other detail but I can only quote so much.Be it 26k or 30k men that's 26k to 30k men the CSA could not use and that did not help the CSA.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Since joining here I have been embarrassed to find out how little I know about my own state 1861-65. For example, I did not know how many of the 1861 WV recruits in the Union army were from other states. I've seen this pointed out here in various contexts. I recently posted a comment that all of my family (and many of their neighbors) who were Union soldiers were locals with deep roots here. In a separate discussion someone suggested that I read a book called "Lincoln and The War Governors" which I am doing now. In that book I learned that many northern governors had an overflow of volunteers, too many to absorb. I began to suspect that this was at least in part the cause of this outside enlistment in W. Va. Union units. Then I found this:

http://www.lindapages.com/wvcw/5wvc/5wvc.htm

"History of the 5th WV Cavalry, Formerly the Second WV Infantry..." by Frank S. Reader, 1890: The first company from Allegheny county, Pa., that entered the service of other states, was the organization that bore this name in the Second Virginia regiment. The company was organized in Pittsburgh and Allegheny .... It was among the first companies organized after the attack upon Fort Sumpter, and immediately tendered its services to Gov. Andrew G. Curtin of Pennsylvania. ... they sent Lieut. Smith to Harrisburg, personally to urge the acceptance of their services, presuming from the fact of his having recently been a member of the legislature, that he could prevail upon the Governor to accept them. The quota of the state having been filled, however, Lieut. Smith was informed that his company would have to wait another call for troops. The men now became impatient, and in the midst of the .. news ... that the enemy had captured Harper's Ferry, and taken possession of the Baltimore & Ohio railroad, were moving on the Pennsylvania line, and were menacing Wheeling, Va. The loyal people of Wheeling called for aid, and this company, then known as the "Washington Rifle Guards," chartered the steamer McCombs and took passage for Wheeling, arriving there on the 10th of May 1861. On the 21st of May 1861, Major James Oakes of the U. S. army, mustered them into the service of the United States for three years."

H. E. Matheny's book "Major General Thomas Maley Harris" is a history of the 10th WV infantry. He gives muster rolls for each company. Many in this unit were mustered later, late in 1861 or in 1862. Looking over the muster rolls I recognize many of the names and the places of residence listed and apparently all or the vast majority of this unit were native West Virginians, again many of them with deep WV roots.

The 2nd and 10th regiments are the only two WV units that I have read about in any depths, but I know that there were a lot of other WV Union units. I suspect that this influx of out of state troops was an anomaly and that the majority of the Union soldiers from WV were local but I don't know. My question: what would have been the rule and what the exception? Were the 1861 out of state troops the exception and the local troops the rule, or did West Virginia continue to depend heavily on out of state recruits for the US? I imagine that someone has already looked into this in the pase 150 years, but I have not found the results of the research. Can anyone point me to a source to answer the question of what portion of the WV Union troops were local and what portion not? Or does anyone know off the top of their head? Thanks!

You can also check out Wiki on Wv during the CW. How many troops each side recruited is controversial. Their was definitely a lot of COIN war has well. Overall the Union did enjoy a fair amount of success recruiting Virginians its just a matter of numbers many fought at Antietam and Gettysburg.
Leftyhunter

 

[16thVA]

You can also check out Wiki on Wv during the CW. How many troops each side recruited is controversial. Their was definitely a lot of COIN war has well. Overall the Union did enjoy a fair amount of success recruiting Virginians its just a matter of numbers many fought at Antietam and Gettysburg.
Leftyhunter

Hi, Lefty. It was a valiant attempt, but you are too dependent on Richard Current, who is not a reliable source on West Virginia. He underestimates the number of OH/PA men in WV regiments, and overestimates the Lamon Brigade in an attempt to offset OH/PA recruits.

As for the Lamon Brigade, it is a false front. Lamon asked Lincoln's permission to raise a brigade from refugee Virginia Unionists. If you know anything about Lamon you must realize he was a bloviator of the greatest magnitude. Lincoln gave him permission but asked him to keep it quiet, because it was outside the recognized method for raising troops.

An article appeared in the NYTimes on June 11, 1861, which stated-
"Sixty Virginians, who left the Confederate troops and came over to avoid the Virginia military requisition, have gone into camp at Williamsport, under Col. LAMON's proclamation, elected a captain, and form the nucleus of a regiment."

On July 22, 1861, this article appeared in Baltimore's Daily Exchange-

This is undoubtedly why Lamon headed north to get men for his brigade. He did not want to lose face in front of Lincoln. As Frederick S. Calhoun stated in United States Marshals and Their Deputies, 1789-1989-

"In the summer of that first year of war. Lamon began enlisting army volunteers among loyal Virginians. He hoped to form a 'Virginia Brigade' to fight in the Union Army. President Lincoln supported the plan and Secretary of War Simon Cameron authorized Lamon to draw on the Union Army for arms, ammunition, and other supplies. Although Lamon hoped to find volunteers among loyal Virginians, that proved difficult because of the 'demoralization of the people there' over Union defeats. In September 1861, he traveled to Pennsylvania and Illinois enlisting recruits. He returned with a command of seven hundred men. Early in the war, the "Virginia Brigade," as Lamon insisted on calling it, guarded the forts along the Potomac River."

So with the 700 men from the north, perhaps several hundred Virginians, and the remainder Marylanders, Lamon managed to put several regiments together, much to his credit. But they were not Virginians. As Mr. Calhoun stated, Lamon insisted on calling his brigade "Virginia". It wasn't.

As for the difficulty the Union government had in raising troops, which is rarely mentioned in Civil War histories, an article appeared in the NY Times, from "Our Own Correspondent", in Clarksburg, Va, Aug. 23, 1861-

"Indeed, the practical lukewarmness of so many able-bodied men, and their professed zeal for the Union, are almost inexplicably inconsistent. If one were to attempt an explanation of the subject, I do not perceive how he could avoid a conclusion not flattering to the courage of men who seem so desirous that the National cause shall prevail, and yet do so little to promote it. While the war appears to be degenerating into mere bush-fighting-a description of warfare for which mountaineers are peculiarly fitted-it is aggravating to the Army that the Western Virginians do not appropriate this part of operations to themselves."

On July 20, 1861 McClellan noted the lackluster enlistment and warned Pierpont that he would have to start enlisting men to defend his government.

"I think they are somewhat apathetic, & I see no strong disposition manifested to take up arms... I confess that I am much disappointed by the extreme slowness with which recruiting goes on...Before I left Grafton I made requisitions for arms clothing etc for 10,000 Virginia troops-I begin to fear that my estimate was much too large."

Pierpont wrote twice to Lincoln in 1861 and 1862 to explain about the low recruiting, the first excuse being the lack of arms, the second because of a bountiful harvest.

As Whitelaw Reid stated in "Ohio in the War", pg. 3-

"AT the close of the War against the Rebellion, the State of Ohio had in the National service two hundred regiments of all arms* In the course of the war she furnished two hundred and thirty regiments, besides twenty-six independent batteries of artillery, five independent companies of cavalry, several companies of sharp-shooters, large parts of five regiments credited to the West Virginia contingent,..."

Reid had been a correspondent with a Cincinnati newspaper and had travelled with the troops through western Virginia.

Analysis of the 1st WV Infantry by the George Tyler Moore Center found that 39% of that regiment were West Virginians.
The 2nd WV Infantry had 5 companies mostly from Pennsylvania, 1 from Ohio, and another company partially Ohio.

The 1st WV Cavalry was found to contain about 34% West Virginian.
The 2nd WV Cavalry was from Ohio.

The 4th WV Infantry was mostly from Ohio. An Ohio veteran, Thomas H. Barton, wrote about the regiment in his autobiography. About 7 companies of the 4th were Ohioans.

Gallipolis (Ohio) Journal, April 3, 1862-

The Gallioplis Journal [Gallia County], October 3, 1861-

Once the war went past its first year of course Ohio and Pennsylvania put a stop to letting their men recruit to other states, so Wheeling had to push hard to get men into service for the Union. When the Union draft started in 1863 they managed to wrangle an exemption.

from "The History of Washington County, Ohio"

As for Henry Wise's statements about the Kanawha Valley, I think we all know what kind of person Wise was. You might say he was almost working in tandem with Pierpont to break the state of Virginia. Aaron Sheehan-Dean's map of Confederate Virginia recruitment in "Why Confederates Fought" pg 32, shows Kanawha County recruiting as well as many of the counties in eastern Virginia. Wise managed to raise 3 "Kanawha" regiments, and the militia under Genls. Chapman and Beckley, almost all West Virginians, except for Giles County, numbered 2000 men according to the OR.

So as Charles Ambler stated in 1906- only about 20,000 men from West Virginia were in service for the Union.
And that is about the same number attributed by Mark Snell as being in service.

 

[leftyhunter]

Hi, Lefty. It was a valiant attempt, but you are too dependent on Richard Current, who is not a reliable source on West Virginia. He underestimates the number of OH/PA men in WV regiments, and overestimates the Lamon Brigade in an attempt to offset OH/PA recruits.

As for the Lamon Brigade, it is a false front. Lamon asked Lincoln's permission to raise a brigade from refugee Virginia Unionists. If you know anything about Lamon you must realize he was a bloviator of the greatest magnitude. Lincoln gave him permission but asked him to keep it quiet, because it was outside the recognized method for raising troops.

An article appeared in the NYTimes on June 11, 1861, which stated-
"Sixty Virginians, who left the Confederate troops and came over to avoid the Virginia military requisition, have gone into camp at Williamsport, under Col. LAMON's proclamation, elected a captain, and form the nucleus of a regiment."

On July 22, 1861, this article appeared in Baltimore's Daily Exchange-

This is undoubtedly why Lamon headed north to get men for his brigade. He did not want to lose face in front of Lincoln. As Frederick S. Calhoun stated in United States Marshals and Their Deputies, 1789-1989-

"In the summer of that first year of war. Lamon began enlisting army volunteers among loyal Virginians. He hoped to form a 'Virginia Brigade' to fight in the Union Army. President Lincoln supported the plan and Secretary of War Simon Cameron authorized Lamon to draw on the Union Army for arms, ammunition, and other supplies. Although Lamon hoped to find volunteers among loyal Virginians, that proved difficult because of the 'demoralization of the people there' over Union defeats. In September 1861, he traveled to Pennsylvania and Illinois enlisting recruits. He returned with a command of seven hundred men. Early in the war, the "Virginia Brigade," as Lamon insisted on calling it, guarded the forts along the Potomac River."

So with the 700 men from the north, perhaps several hundred Virginians, and the remainder Marylanders, Lamon managed to put several regiments together, much to his credit. But they were not Virginians. As Mr. Calhoun stated, Lamon insisted on calling his brigade "Virginia". It wasn't.

As for the difficulty the Union government had in raising troops, which is rarely mentioned in Civil War histories, an article appeared in the NY Times, from "Our Own Correspondent", in Clarksburg, Va, Aug. 23, 1861-

"Indeed, the practical lukewarmness of so many able-bodied men, and their professed zeal for the Union, are almost inexplicably inconsistent. If one were to attempt an explanation of the subject, I do not perceive how he could avoid a conclusion not flattering to the courage of men who seem so desirous that the National cause shall prevail, and yet do so little to promote it. While the war appears to be degenerating into mere bush-fighting-a description of warfare for which mountaineers are peculiarly fitted-it is aggravating to the Army that the Western Virginians do not appropriate this part of operations to themselves."

On July 20, 1861 McClellan noted the lackluster enlistment and warned Pierpont that he would have to start enlisting men to defend his government.

"I think they are somewhat apathetic, & I see no strong disposition manifested to take up arms... I confess that I am much disappointed by the extreme slowness with which recruiting goes on...Before I left Grafton I made requisitions for arms clothing etc for 10,000 Virginia troops-I begin to fear that my estimate was much too large."

Pierpont wrote twice to Lincoln in 1861 and 1862 to explain about the low recruiting, the first excuse being the lack of arms, the second because of a bountiful harvest.

As Whitelaw Reid stated in "Ohio in the War", pg. 3-

"AT the close of the War against the Rebellion, the State of Ohio had in the National service two hundred regiments of all arms* In the course of the war she furnished two hundred and thirty regiments, besides twenty-six independent batteries of artillery, five independent companies of cavalry, several companies of sharp-shooters, large parts of five regiments credited to the West Virginia contingent,..."

Reid had been a correspondent with a Cincinnati newspaper and had travelled with the troops through western Virginia.

Analysis of the 1st WV Infantry by the George Tyler Moore Center found that 39% of that regiment were West Virginians.
The 2nd WV Infantry had 5 companies mostly from Pennsylvania, 1 from Ohio, and another company partially Ohio.

The 1st WV Cavalry was found to contain about 34% West Virginian.
The 2nd WV Cavalry was from Ohio.

The 4th WV Infantry was mostly from Ohio. An Ohio veteran, Thomas H. Barton, wrote about the regiment in his autobiography. About 7 companies of the 4th were Ohioans.

Gallipolis (Ohio) Journal, April 3, 1862-

The Gallioplis Journal [Gallia County], October 3, 1861-

Once the war went past its first year of course Ohio and Pennsylvania put a stop to letting their men recruit to other states, so Wheeling had to push hard to get men into service for the Union. When the Union draft started in 1863 they managed to wrangle an exemption.

from "The History of Washington County, Ohio"

As for Henry Wise's statements about the Kanawha Valley, I think we all know what kind of person Wise was. You might say he was almost working in tandem with Pierpont to break the state of Virginia. Aaron Sheehan-Dean's map of Confederate Virginia recruitment in "Why Confederates Fought" pg 32, shows Kanawha County recruiting as well as many of the counties in eastern Virginia. Wise managed to raise 3 "Kanawha" regiments, and the militia under Genls. Chapman and Beckley, almost all West Virginians, except for Giles County, numbered 2000 men according to the OR.

So as Charles Ambler stated in 1906- only about 20,000 men from West Virginia were in service for the Union.
And that is about the same number attributed by Mark Snell as being in service.

In defense of current his figure for 30k includes all Union troops raised in Va. If 20k where raised in what became W.V perhaps 10k where recruited from what remained of Va?
Leftyhunter

 

[Al Murray]

Thanks, guys! This is a big help. I don't know what was up with my people, three brothers all went into the 2nd inf, 1st cav and 2nd cav, but they were WV men.

The minute someone answers this next question I'll hit my head and go "duh" but

COIN war in Wv

What is COIN war? Bushwhackers? I was thinking as I read over this I am not sure if all the above figures count those, but if irregulars could be counted I would bet that the numbers would skew the total even farther toward the CSA. but I don't know.

Hesseltine's "War Governors" has been an education. He says that 1862 was the first time the govt used its article 1 sec 8 power to raise and equip armies. Maybe after that happened it wouldn't matter what state troops one entered since they were not serving in state militia in federal service.

The above posts answer my question. My grandfathers and uncles all were Union (WV and PA) and all went into the service in regiments of their own states (counting WV as a "state"). This helps me put them in context. Thanks for everything.

 

[leftyhunter]

Thanks, guys! This is a big help. I don't know what was up with my people, three brothers all went into the 2nd inf, 1st cav and 2nd cav, but they were WV men.

The minute someone answers this next question I'll hit my head and go "duh" but



What is COIN war? Bushwhackers? I was thinking as I read over this I am not sure if all the above figures count those, but if irregulars could be counted I would bet that the numbers would skew the total even farther toward the CSA. but I don't know.

Hesseltine's "War Governors" has been an education. He says that 1862 was the first time the govt used its article 1 sec 8 power to raise and equip armies. Maybe after that happened it wouldn't matter what state troops one entered since they were not serving in state militia in federal service.

The above posts answer my question. My grandfathers and uncles all were Union (WV and PA) and all went into the service in regiments of their own states (counting WV as a "state"). This helps me put them in context. Thanks for everything.

Hi Al,
COIN is simply short hand for counter-insurgency. I will define an insurgent has a non uniformed combatant fighting behind his enemies lines. In the CW both sides had the legal right to kill any captured insurgent. Both sides fought and aided their own insurgents or if you prefer guerrilla's behind their opponents lines. I have no idea how many CSA insurgents where in Va vs Unionist home guard or militia both terms are interchangeable .The CW was just has much a COIN war has a conventional war their was plenty of it to go around. Professor Sutherland the"Savage Conflict ' is a good starting point.
Leftyhunter