Video Discussion 32: Destiny at Sumter

[JerseyBart]

Monday 5-9-16 in the chatroom, 10:00pm Eastern Daylight

 

[MaryDee]

Still chasing mice (they are field mice from the raspberry field behind me, displaced after the raspberry bushes were yanked and the field leveled, in prep for a high-rise apartment complex which fortunately was rejected by our city council), but I'll join the discussion, Lord willing, anyway.

"And the mice play shyly round me as I lay me down to rest
In my little old sod shanty on the plain."

They have made lots of holes in my back yard, too! I actually feel sorry for them, but, even though they're cute, I draw the line at their living in my house.

Fort Sumter will be a good distraction!

 

[MaryDee]

Bumping, so I won't be the only one there!

 

[MaryDee]

Bumping again….

 

[PeterT]

Bumping, so I won't be the only one there!

I'll be there!

 

[JerseyBart]

I'll be there!

Me too.

 

[Aussie Billy Sherman]

Love the civil war journal series. There's 30 or so episodes on YouTube of it. Just wish the other 20 odd were there too

 

[bdtex]

Watching the video now.

 

[Northern Light]

I'll be there!

 

[JerseyBart]

Just finished...wow!!! See you all in 30ish minutes.

 

[JerseyBart]

Thanks to bdtex, pat answer, marydee, northern light and PeterT for joining me tonight for a great discussion.

 

[Northern Light]

Thanks again to you, JB for making it happen! Great video and great discussion.

 

[ami]

transcript:
May 9, 2016 9:58 PM - MaryDee: I see PeterT is here already!
May 9, 2016 9:58 PM - bdtex: Present
May 9, 2016 9:58 PM - JerseyBart: Hi
May 9, 2016 9:58 PM - MaryDee: Hi, everyone!
May 9, 2016 9:58 PM - Northern Light: Hi Everyone!
May 9, 2016 9:59 PM - bdtex: Howdy y'all. Great day to be alive.
May 9, 2016 9:59 PM - Northern Light: Yes, it always is!
May 9, 2016 9:59 PM - JerseyBart: Sure is!
May 9, 2016 10:00 PM - PeterT: Hi all!!!
May 9, 2016 10:00 PM - JerseyBart: I do love and miss civil war journal.
May 9, 2016 10:01 PM - bdtex: Good video. The battlefields I've visited and books read haven't touched 1861 yet.
May 9, 2016 10:01 PM - Pat Answer: When the HIstory Channel was worth watch... Oh well, Hello everyone.
May 9, 2016 10:02 PM - Northern Light: It really was a great production, and so funny to see everyone looking so young!
May 9, 2016 10:02 PM - JerseyBart: Amen Pat!
May 9, 2016 10:02 PM - MaryDee: And to see the late Brian Pohanka!
May 9, 2016 10:02 PM - bdtex: Even Lincoln looked young.
May 9, 2016 10:03 PM - JerseyBart: That video really makes the "northern invasion" talk here sound desperate at best.
May 9, 2016 10:03 PM - Northern Light: i liked Danny Glover but the other llater ones are good too
May 9, 2016 10:04 PM - MaryDee: I hadn't known that Abner Doubleday was at Sumter.
May 9, 2016 10:04 PM - Northern Light: yes, it is really hard to credit northern aggression when the Confederacy seemed so determined for war. A lot of red flags waving in the south!
May 9, 2016 10:05 PM - bdtex: A lot of minutes about slavery in the video. Didn't expect that. Thought it would more about the Fort and the troops
May 9, 2016 10:05 PM - MaryDee: Yes, they had to get into causes and background, to fill in
May 9, 2016 10:05 PM - JerseyBart: The backstory definitely sets the tone in s.c.
May 9, 2016 10:06 PM - Northern Light: Yes mary he was ther and causing trouble there too, Such a S*** Disturber whereever he was.
May 9, 2016 10:06 PM - Pat Answer: Fort Sumter - merely the symbol of a political 0-sum game at that point...
May 9, 2016 10:07 PM - MaryDee: Probably too much slavery because at that stage, while the South's agenda for secession was to preserve slavery, the North's was to preserve the Union.
May 9, 2016 10:07 PM - JerseyBart: It gets the point across though
May 9, 2016 10:07 PM - bdtex: Lot of folks don't know about The Star of The West. Those were the first shots of the war.
May 9, 2016 10:08 PM - MaryDee: Yes, they were, and against an unarmed vessel.
May 9, 2016 10:08 PM - Northern Light: And yet, it was all Lincoln fault
May 9, 2016 10:08 PM - JerseyBart: And again, shots fired against Americans by the fictious confederacy
May 9, 2016 10:09 PM - Northern Light: Who didn't want war!
May 9, 2016 10:09 PM - MaryDee: All the Confederacy had to do was wait until April 15 for Anderson to surrender, since that was the day they'd be out of food.
May 9, 2016 10:09 PM - JerseyBart: Men who knew war was hell from prior experience.
May 9, 2016 10:10 PM - Pat Answer: And that's just it (JB 2208) - The CSA is an independent nation/The "CSA" is an armed rebellion against US authority is the real question
May 9, 2016 10:10 PM - bdtex: The video didn't go into it,but I think the gunners that fired on The Star Of The West were cadets from a military school.
May 9, 2016 10:10 PM - MaryDee: Good training, hee hee!
May 9, 2016 10:10 PM - Pat Answer: (MD 22:09) Wouldn't solve the problem which would then be transferred to Fort Pickens
May 9, 2016 10:11 PM - Northern Light: Poor R. Anderson, really caught between a rock and a hard place.
May 9, 2016 10:11 PM - bdtex: They were from The Citadel I think.
May 9, 2016 10:12 PM - JerseyBart: Pat, to be the CSA, international recognition and a win would have worked.
May 9, 2016 10:12 PM - PeterT: Anderson seemed like a very good officer and a very good person
May 9, 2016 10:12 PM - Pat Answer: Anderson from KY like both Lincoln and Davis - He really wanted to avoid war. Agree with NL it must have broken his heart
May 9, 2016 10:12 PM - bdtex: I hadn't known before tonight that the Union garrison there was that small.
May 9, 2016 10:13 PM - JerseyBart: Anderson deserved every promotion and accolade he earned/received.
May 9, 2016 10:13 PM - Northern Light: i thought it interesting that anderson was labeled a traitor. A traitor to what?
May 9, 2016 10:13 PM - bdtex: Didn't,t catch that.
May 9, 2016 10:14 PM - MaryDee: Pretty much the standard response of the Confederates to southerners who didn't come over to their cause.
May 9, 2016 10:14 PM - Pat Answer: JB 2212 Possibly. But priority to the win or to international recognition?
May 9, 2016 10:14 PM - JerseyBart: Traitor...a word thrown around by southerners against southerners and John Brown that they don't want to hear their own heroes called.

 

[ami]

May 9, 2016 at 10:14 PM - Northern Light: And then they just let them all go ? A gentlemanly war?
May 9, 2016 at 10:15 PM - bdtex: They thought he war was over
May 9, 2016 at 10:15 PM - bdtex: The
May 9, 2016 at 10:15 PM - Northern Light: So a traitor is a person who doesn't think like you do. Huh!
May 9, 2016 at 10:15 PM - JerseyBart: France recognized America to an extent before winning the revolution, probably would have dumped us hard had we lost.
May 9, 2016 at 10:15 PM - Pat Answer: It started out that way. And there were some flashes of it well into the real thing.
May 9, 2016 at 10:16 PM - MaryDee: NL, the term was also used for other southerners who "stayed north" like George Thomas.
May 9, 2016 at 10:16 PM - JerseyBart: Northern...seems so
May 9, 2016 at 10:16 PM - bdtex: We did lose.
May 9, 2016 at 10:17 PM - Pat Answer: JB 2215: Saratoga...
May 9, 2016 at 10:17 PM - MaryDee: Of course in the Revolution, the French were pursuing their own aims against Britain, too.
May 9, 2016 at 10:17 PM - Northern Light: You'de never know it sometimes!
May 9, 2016 at 10:17 PM - bdtex: We being the Confederacy.
May 9, 2016 at 10:18 PM - JerseyBart: True Mary
May 9, 2016 at 10:18 PM - Northern Light: That was the real reason that the wanted to support the Confederacy, so they could get into Mexico.
May 9, 2016 at 10:18 PM - Northern Light: The French, I mean.
May 9, 2016 at 10:19 PM - MaryDee: I remember visiting Versailles, seeing lots of paintings of French military victories, including Yorktown--with George Washington shown standing in the background while Cornwallis surrendered to the French!
May 9, 2016 at 10:19 PM - Northern Light: That's the French for you!
May 9, 2016 at 10:20 PM - Northern Light: Not that the Brits were any better!
May 9, 2016 at 10:20 PM - Pat Answer: MD 2219: Well, O'Hara did try to surrender to the French first and was directed by them to Washington.
May 9, 2016 at 10:20 PM - MaryDee: The difference was that during the CW, the French were closely tied to Britain, so without Britain they wouldn't recognize the CSA
May 9, 2016 at 10:21 PM - Northern Light: Which irked them tremendously!
May 9, 2016 at 10:21 PM - Pat Answer: So much of history is how we choose to remember things...
May 9, 2016 at 10:21 PM - MaryDee: Yes, because there was that little Mexican adventure going on.
May 9, 2016 at 10:22 PM - Northern Light: The problem is that we now can't r do so.emeber these things so perhaps we can get a little closer to the truth, if we chose to.
May 9, 2016 at 10:22 PM - PeterT: "You recognize them first...." "Well no if you do we might ..."
May 9, 2016 at 10:22 PM - bdtex: Didn't know that Anderson was told exactly when the Confederates were gonna open fire. Learned a lot from the video.
May 9, 2016 at 10:23 PM - JerseyBart: Lincoln should have taken the invite to the flag reraising ceremony.
May 9, 2016 at 10:23 PM - Northern Light: sorry, cannot remember because we weren't there.
May 9, 2016 at 10:23 PM - MaryDee: bd, I remember reading that somewhere
May 9, 2016 at 10:24 PM - bdtex: Liked the stuff about Anderson's relationship with Beauregard too.
May 9, 2016 at 10:24 PM - PeterT: Seemed a lot of respect between Anderson and PGTB ... being West Point teacher and student
May 9, 2016 at 10:24 PM - Pat Answer: bdtex 2222: Lot of scrambling on both sides to avoid being seen as the 'aggressor'. Too bad the whole situation was already, as I said, 0 sum
May 9, 2016 at 10:24 PM - MaryDee: Yes, there was a trivia question some months ago about Anderson's being Beauregard's artillery instructor.
May 9, 2016 at 10:25 PM - MaryDee: Of course another opportunity to parade all of Beauregard's names!
May 9, 2016 at 10:25 PM - Pat Answer: JB 2223 - LOL!!
May 9, 2016 at 10:25 PM - bdtex: I remember that. I had to google it.
May 9, 2016 at 10:26 PM - Pat Answer: "Beauregard was barely tall enough for his names." Thought that was funny, hadn't heard that before.
May 9, 2016 at 10:26 PM - JerseyBart: The confederacy trying not to be labeled aggressor was already months too late.
May 9, 2016 at 10:26 PM - Northern Light: What gets to me is guys like Ruffin, who make all the mess and then don't stay around to clean up after themselves. Such BS. makes them sound great but really have no guts.
May 9, 2016 at 10:26 PM - bdtex: The part about heating the cannon balls up was new to me too. Set the fort on fire.
May 9, 2016 at 10:27 PM - bdtex: Agreed. NL. Cowardly
May 9, 2016 at 10:27 PM - Northern Light: The Confederacy was not as gentlemanly as they liked to pretend they were.
May 9, 2016 at 10:28 PM - MaryDee: Loved the description of Wigfall as a "perpetual pain."
May 9, 2016 at 10:28 PM - MaryDee: I thought hot shot was a standard technique?
May 9, 2016 at 10:28 PM - JerseyBart: Northern...that video on Lee a few weeks back proves that.
May 9, 2016 at 10:28 PM - Northern Light: To put it mildy! What a piece of work!
May 9, 2016 at 10:28 PM - bdtex: I know little about artillery.
May 9, 2016 at 10:29 PM - JerseyBart: Mary...also known a the gospel by apologists
May 9, 2016 at 10:30 PM - Northern Light: My father Husband and one son are all artillery. I know more than I want to, Tex!

 

[ami]

May 9, 2016 at 10:30 PM - Pat Answer: JB Well, sure, as they were in rebellion against US authority. Of course they didn't see it that way... And the war came...
May 9, 2016 at 10:30 PM - Northern Light: And stay for 4 years
May 9, 2016 at 10:30 PM - Northern Light: stayed.
May 9, 2016 at 10:30 PM - bdtex: I got a lot to learn. That's why I'm here.
May 9, 2016 at 10:31 PM - MaryDee: Interesting that the film didn't get much into the popular reaction to Sumter in the North. I understand it was similar to the 1941 reaction to Pearl Harbor.
May 9, 2016 at 10:31 PM - Pat Answer: bd - You chose well! I learn much here everyday.
May 9, 2016 at 10:31 PM - bdtex: Lincoln used it to raise 75K troops
May 9, 2016 at 10:32 PM - Pat Answer: I remember one leading Confederate argued against firing on the fort - forget his name...
May 9, 2016 at 10:32 PM - MaryDee: Yes, a lot more signed up, too--for 90 days, which meant they could go home during the preparations for Bull Run/Manassas
May 9, 2016 at 10:33 PM - Northern Light: I can imagine it was like PH, Mary. Although perhaps not such a surprize.
May 9, 2016 at 10:34 PM - MaryDee: It certainly caused lots of indignation!
May 9, 2016 at 10:34 PM - JerseyBart: Didn't those 90 days running out help lead to bull run?
May 9, 2016 at 10:34 PM - MaryDee: There was a lot of pressure to "do something"
May 9, 2016 at 10:35 PM - Pat Answer: I think so: Use 'em or lose 'em - "You are all green together"...
May 9, 2016 at 10:35 PM - Northern Light: Yes, but some of the terms were up before McDowell got organized, and they refused to fight, just went home.
May 9, 2016 at 10:35 PM - bdtex: At the time of ft
May 9, 2016 at 10:36 PM - bdtex: ft. Sumter only 7 states had seceded?
May 9, 2016 at 10:36 PM - Northern Light: Virginia disn't go until Lincoln called for troops
May 9, 2016 at 10:36 PM - Pat Answer: The "upper" South left as reaction to Lincoln's call for volunteers - after Sumter
May 9, 2016 at 10:36 PM - MaryDee: Yes, the request to provide troops to fight the South sent several more states out of the Union.
May 9, 2016 at 10:37 PM - JerseyBart: Yes, the next 4 because of that darn impending northern aggression
May 9, 2016 at 10:37 PM - MaryDee: It really was impending, if the North could get it organized
May 9, 2016 at 10:37 PM - bdtex: I am sure I heard that before just didn't remember it. Memory issues
May 9, 2016 at 10:38 PM - Northern Light: If Virginia had stayed, then wouldn't troups just have been moved through to fight further South?
May 9, 2016 at 10:38 PM - JerseyBart:
May 9, 2016 at 10:39 PM - MaryDee: NL, I think you're right. Except that Virginia wasnt about to put up with that.
May 9, 2016 at 10:39 PM - MaryDee: Or with fighting their fellow southerners.
May 9, 2016 at 10:39 PM - MaryDee: (I guess it was OK to fight their fellow Americans to the north….)
May 9, 2016 at 10:39 PM - Northern Light: Might have saved them a lot in the long run!
May 9, 2016 at 10:40 PM - PeterT: But Mary they were the "Yankee race"
May 9, 2016 at 10:40 PM - Pat Answer: MD 2239 Because the polarization had gotten really bad by then...
May 9, 2016 at 10:41 PM - MaryDee: What was it that Ruffin called them? Bunch of adjectives….
May 9, 2016 at 10:41 PM - Northern Light: I had to laugh about Mary Chesnut sitting on the chimney and setting herself on fire. That was too good!
May 9, 2016 at 10:41 PM - bdtex: Pants on fire.
May 9, 2016 at 10:41 PM - Pat Answer: "Bunch of adjectives..." LOL!
May 9, 2016 at 10:42 PM - MaryDee: I got a charge out of that, too!
May 9, 2016 at 10:42 PM - JerseyBart: Mary...before shooting himself in the head
May 9, 2016 at 10:42 PM - Northern Light: Mary, Ruffin was such a bag of wind, he just like the sound of his own voice.!
May 9, 2016 at 10:43 PM - MaryDee: He and Wigfall both!
May 9, 2016 at 10:43 PM - bdtex: SC paid a heavy price for Ft. Sumter.
May 9, 2016 at 10:43 PM - Northern Light: Birds of a feather croak together!
May 9, 2016 at 10:44 PM - MaryDee: bd, they sure did, when Sherman went through.
May 9, 2016 at 10:44 PM - Northern Light: Tex, I cannot say I feel too much sympathy for them.
May 9, 2016 at 10:44 PM - PeterT: Sherman made sure they paid a heavy price
May 9, 2016 at 10:44 PM - Pat Answer: bd - Some say Sherman's army did more damage to SC than to GA
May 9, 2016 at 10:44 PM - PeterT: oops Mary said the same thing ......
May 9, 2016 at 10:44 PM - bdtex: Got a book in the stack to read about that. Hope to get to it. Big stack.
May 9, 2016 at 10:45 PM - Northern Light: From what I have read it was the soldiers who want to make SC pay, more than Sherman.
May 9, 2016 at 10:45 PM - MaryDee: With the time delay while we type responses, not unusual
May 9, 2016 at 10:45 PM - Pat Answer: bd "

 

[ami]

May 9, 2016 at 10:45 PM - JerseyBart: Northern...agreed. Reading the "northern aggression, northern invaders" talk just doesn't garner sympathy. 1860-Ft. Sumter is why.
May 9, 2016 at 10:45 PM - Pat Answer: My "stack" only grows the more I read.
May 9, 2016 at 10:46 PM - MaryDee: Mine, too! In the meantime, though, I have unfinished CW sewing projects and I'm still cleaning up after the mouse invasion
May 9, 2016 at 10:47 PM - Pat Answer: Ft Sumter certainly backfired. Ultimately instead of sparking independence it sealed doom
May 9, 2016 at 10:47 PM - JerseyBart: It sure did Pat.
May 9, 2016 at 10:47 PM - bdtex: Think I'm tapped out for night with this one. Enjoyed it a lot gang. G'nite y'all.
May 9, 2016 at 10:47 PM - Northern Light: I cannot understand why they thought the US would just let them Walk away., but since they were all prime for Sumter, I guess they really didn't believe that.
May 9, 2016 at 10:47 PM - JerseyBart: That probably a good place to end too
May 9, 2016 at 10:48 PM - Pat Answer: Have a good night, bdtex!
May 9, 2016 at 10:48 PM - JerseyBart: Good night bdtex
May 9, 2016 at 10:48 PM - MaryDee: I enjoyed this one, and learned a lot, too! Have a good night, all!
May 9, 2016 at 10:48 PM - JerseyBart: Good night Mary.
May 9, 2016 at 10:48 PM - MaryDee: Thanks, JB, for picking this one!
May 9, 2016 at 10:49 PM - JerseyBart: A lot of bait and switch Northern Light.
May 9, 2016 at 10:49 PM - JerseyBart: My pleasure Mary.
May 9, 2016 at 10:49 PM - PeterT: Thanks everyone. Learned a lot as usual!
May 9, 2016 at 10:49 PM - Northern Light: Good night everyone! Great talk.
May 9, 2016 at 10:49 PM - MaryDee: See you all next week!
May 9, 2016 at 10:49 PM - Pat Answer: Good night all. These discussions are great, JB, thanks! See you guys/gals around the forum.
May 9, 2016 at 10:49 PM - PeterT: Thanks everyone. Learned a lot as usual!
May 9, 2016 at 10:50 PM - JerseyBart: Goodnight all!!! Thank you again.