Using the Cartridge Box Tins

9th US Regulars

Private
Joined
Nov 10, 2021
Okay. So I get that the cartridge box tins hold ten loose rounds, bullet down in the top compartment and a full arsenal pack in the bottom.

It's my understanding that rounds inside the arsenal pack are arranged in an alternating bullet up/bullet down fashion. If someone knows differently, please do share.

So this is where I'm hung up; wouldn't it be a major PITA to open the box, remove the tin, extract the arsenal pack, return the tin, open the pack, and individually rearrange the cartridges - all while under fire?

Did the firing line step back to do all this? Was there a second string battle line to relieve them and allow time for all this? Was combat just that much slower that my modern soldier habits of speed just don't comprehend the rate of napoleonic tactics?

Obviously I'm talking about live rounds, so maybe the N-SSA guys have some insight. But the issue did cross my mind as I was reaching for blanks.
 
Okay. So I get that the cartridge box tins hold ten loose rounds, bullet down in the top compartment and a full arsenal pack in the bottom.

It's my understanding that rounds inside the arsenal pack are arranged in an alternating bullet up/bullet down fashion. If someone knows differently, please do share.

So this is where I'm hung up; wouldn't it be a major PITA to open the box, remove the tin, extract the arsenal pack, return the tin, open the pack, and individually rearrange the cartridges - all while under fire?

Did the firing line step back to do all this? Was there a second string battle line to relieve them and allow time for all this? Was combat just that much slower that my modern soldier habits of speed just don't comprehend the rate of napoleonic tactics?

Obviously I'm talking about live rounds, so maybe the N-SSA guys have some insight. But the issue did cross my mind as I was reaching for blanks.
We load our boxes correctly in our reenacting group. It really doesn't take long to do it. If you get hung up at all get help from your file partner. It really isn't a big deal. You don't have to pull the tin completely out to get the arsenal pack out.
 
As you mention the common late 1850s pattern United States .58 caliber rifle cartridge box was described as follows in the 1861 ordnance instructions:
1696462045421.png


The wrapped bundles of 10 cartridges were described in the period:

1696465361111.png

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In the field the troops normally carried in the cartridge box, as you mention, forty rounds, with twenty in each tin; ten loose in the top of each tin, for twenty ready cartridges. The lower compartment of each tin holding another package of ten rounds.

The fully loaded cartridge box weighed in at several pounds (the box alone weighing about 1.67 lbs. according to the manual).

The heavy cartridge box was not infrequently shifted about the person on the march, to reduce the discomfort. From the History of the 115th Illinois:

1696465950488.png


As you mention, getting at the lower compartments in battle requires the soldier, once the upper trays are empty, to pull the tins to get at the packets underneath. This did not require the soldier to step out of ranks or anything, if they were in ranks while firing.

If the boxes were not carried on the shoulder belt, they were to be passed to the front for handling: Hardee's tactics made it clear that when firing the soldiers were to bring their cartridge boxes round to the front of their bodies for easier handling...

1696462445163.png

Casey's US tactics of 1862 made it more clear that was particularly where the shoulder belt was not employed:
1696462556784.png


But it would appear in action the soldiers frequently did as they pleased on that score evidently.

Forty rounds was the soldier's basic load, and twenty ready rounds was standard crammed in the upper trays of the two tins. As you mention, if the soldier had to, he could pull his tins and get to the two packages (of 10 rounds each) to keep firing.

Fully laden on the march the troops often carried another twenty rounds in their knapsacks...
1696461332845.png


And in action, sometimes in their pockets. From the 44th Indiana at Shiloh:

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And afterwards, regarding the campaign against Corinth, Miss.

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A federal soldier at Savage's Station in June, 1862:

1696461563202.png


During the Chickamauga campaign, the 15th Kentucky, US, carried their extra 20 rounds in their pockets, besides their "full" cartridge boxes:

1696463526295.png


Hirst of the 14th CT wrote of his kit in 1863:

1696467326348.png


I reckon before pulling tins all the ready rounds in their pockets would have been shot off first. And indeed, a soldier of the 18th CT at Harper's Ferry in June, '63 mentions just that:

1696468586490.png


Alexander Hunter of Virginia noted regarding Second Manassas:

1696464368296.png


John Worsham of the 21st Virginia mentions shifting cartridge boxes to the front in preparing to open fire..

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The interesting point he makes is that firing sixty rounds in a day was an "enormous" expenditure. Evidently beyond the average...

Using the ammo. of the dead and wounded was common. And units required relief when they were out:

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From Shiloh,
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A description of the battleground at Ball's Bluff, Virginia in 1861:
1696466262095.png


Here's the monument of the battle of Groveton during the second Manassas campaign.

AF0725E8-0AA7-E45B-EB452E568ED6C429.jpg



A visitor to the monument in 1884 noted the ground around about was still strewn with old cartridge box tins...

1696461799999.png


At Chancellorsville a Union soldier looking upon the multitudes of dead claims he noted a curious distinction. The rebs generally on the backs, and yanks generally on their sides. Looking at the corpses, he theorized the weight of the cartridges boxes affected how they dropped, viz.

1696463830509.png


A.E. Strother of the Confederate artillery force defending Fort Gregg (as infantry) in 1865 mentions too no bother about cartridge boxes...
1696464168680.png


A US veteran of the II Corps noted in April, 1865:
1696466133188.png




The comments about the soldiers jamming their pockets wish spare ammo packets reminds me a little of the G.I.s in WW2. They had their web-cartridge belts, with pockets carrying 80 rounds in 8-round clips, but frequently carried besides a couple of disposable bandoliers over their shoulders...

1696466721453.png
 
Last edited:
During 1863 Col. William S. Mann submitted his patent infantry accoutrements to the War Department, and 2,000 sets were produced and issued for trial during 1864, etc.

He was inspired in large measure by the inconvenience of the tins of the standard cartridge boxes, etc.

Here's what he set looks like. The cartridge box permanently fixed in front.
1696475584659.png

Mann noted,

1696475716326.png

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He believed his box, with its suspenders superior:

1696475128613.png


In reiterating the faults of the regulation cartridge boxes, he notes the litter of magazine tins all over the battlefields of the war:

1696476154582.png


One of the particular advantages noted by Mann, was he designed the internal tin compartments in a manner that the soldier after firing off the 20 rounds on top, could, using his fingers, pull a ring that slid upward more ammo. The box itself carried a total of 60 rounds. Forty loose in the tin magazine (20 handy, and 20 below), and storage in the bottom for two wrapped bundles of ten.

Mann noted:
1696475291209.png

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1696475509972.png

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The Marine Corps tested and liked the design:
1696475903491.png

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Col. Harris liked the new pattern too. and Mann patent accountrements were being procured by the close of 1864:

1696476037350.png




Generals Grant and Thomas also approved of the design and its improvements:

1696476385711.png


Nd9GcTFfOhV_CWJVgJwPWRsZ0nKy9ic0Y9BkrQpcQ&usqp=CAU.jpg


Here's a link to images of a Mann cartridge box. Inside you can see the pull ring, employed to draw upward the lower 20 rounds after firing the upper most, and eliminating the need to pull the tins as in the standard wartime boxes:

Shiloh Relics: Mann cartridge box

And heres a complete set of the infantry pattern:

UnionDB: Mann infantry set
 
This discussion confirms my theory of why a cartridge box in my possession, passed down directly from its original two soldier users, has no tins.
 

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