unit conversion?

[atlantis]

Sometimes an artillery unit would be converted into infantry, did the war secretary have to approved it? Did both sides use similar procedure for unit conversion. Finally in hindsight was this sound policy, even if you don't have the cannon that moment eventually the unit will be equipped.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

Sometimes an artillery unit would be converted into infantry, did the war secretary have to approved it? Did both sides use similar procedure for unit conversion. Finally in hindsight was this sound policy, even if you don't have the cannon that moment eventually the unit will be equipped.

The 60th, 61st, and 62nd Tennessee Infantry regiments were converted to Mounted Infantry at the request of General John C. Vaughn in October 1863, mainly because so few reported to parole camps upon their return from Vicksburg. The transfer was approved in December. By the end of the war, they numbered fewer than 50 men.

 

[gary]

In the case of the 19th Corps Banks decided to convert the 21st Indiana to the 1st Indiana Heavy Artilly. Post-Port Hudson the 6th Michigan was also converted by Banks to heavy artillery.

 

[Stryker65]

Sometimes an artillery unit would be converted into infantry, did the war secretary have to approved it? Did both sides use similar procedure for unit conversion. Finally in hindsight was this sound policy, even if you don't have the cannon that moment eventually the unit will be equipped.

To the best of my knowledge, no. At Memphis, for instance, Union commanders pulled various infantry companies to serve the river batteries at various times. Similarly, units of "Heavies" in the Army of the Potomac like the 14th New York Heavy Artillery or 2nd Pennsylvania Heavy Artillery were at times converted back to artillery -- the 14th NY served as infantry at the Crater but as artillery at Fort Stedman, for instance.

 

[atlantis]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I wonder did these conversions cause problems with pay and later pensions.

 

[UnderTheRedPatch]

The 3rd Massachusetts Cavalry went back and forth between Cavalry, Mounted Infantry, and regular Infantry.

Monumentation in Winchester: The 3rd Massachusetts Cavalry - Emerging Civil War

The Shenandoah Valley is dotted with significant battlefields from long campaigns in 1862 and 1864, but you might not know it if you were only looking for monuments placed by veterans. Though there are a few notable exceptions, the majority of US veteran-placed monuments rest within Winchester...

emergingcivilwar.com

 

[atlantis]

The 3rd Massachusetts Cavalry went back and forth between Cavalry, Mounted Infantry, and regular Infantry.

Monumentation in Winchester: The 3rd Massachusetts Cavalry - Emerging Civil War

The Shenandoah Valley is dotted with significant battlefields from long campaigns in 1862 and 1864, but you might not know it if you were only looking for monuments placed by veterans. Though there are a few notable exceptions, the majority of US veteran-placed monuments rest within Winchester...

emergingcivilwar.com

You tell those boys to pick one and stick with if they want to get paid.

 

[East Tennessee Roots]

I wonder did these conversions cause problems with pay and later pensions.

In the case of East Tennessee Confederates, problems with mounts and provisions. A lack of accurate record-keeping affected pension applications.

 

[Don Dixon]

As some Federal heavy artillery units learned to their pain, the secondary mission of heavy artillery was to function as infantry and they were equipped and were supposed to be trained to perform that mission.

 

[35th MA InfRegt]

Sometimes an artillery unit would be converted into infantry, did the war secretary have to approved it? Did both sides use similar procedure for unit conversion. Finally in hindsight was this sound policy, even if you don't have the cannon that moment eventually the unit will be equipped.

Department or army commanders normally decided if an artillery or cavalry regiment was to serve as infantry. When warm bodies were needed somewhere, troops standing idle were liable to find themselves handed a rifle-musket and repurposed to whatever new role had been thought up for them. The War Department would not be involved unless the move required an inter-departmental transfer. Since unit designations (*) were rarely changed, this should not have affected pay or pensions.

(*) To cite several examples.

The 14th New York Regiment of Artillery ( Heavy) always retained that designation even when serving as infantry.

From an earlier conflict, the Regiment of Mounted Riflemen found itself employed as infantry during the Mexican War because they had no horses on which to be mounted. They remained designated as Mounted Riflemen until 1861 when they became the 3rd Cavalry.

In the Second Seminole War, the 3rd Regiment of Artillery served in Florida as infantry. Their unit designations never changed.

 

[atlantis]

As some Federal heavy artillery units learned to their pain, the secondary mission of heavy artillery was to function as infantry and they were equipped and were supposed to be trained to perform that mission.

Don did men enlisting back then know they had a secondary mission, not talking about regular army but units raised by the states.

 

[atlantis]

Department or army commanders normally decided if an artillery or cavalry regiment was to serve as infantry. When warm bodies were needed somewhere, troops standing idle were liable to find themselves handed a rifle-musket and repurposed to whatever new role had been thought up for them. The War Department would not be involved unless the move required an inter-departmental transfer. Since unit designations (*) were rarely changed, this should not have affected pay or pensions.

(*) To cite several examples.

The 14th New York Regiment of Artillery ( Heavy) always retained that designation even when serving as infantry.

From an earlier conflict, the Regiment of Mounted Riflemen found itself employed as infantry during the Mexican War because they had no horses on which to be mounted. They remained designated as Mounted Riflemen until 1861 when they became the 3rd Cavalry.

In the Second Seminole War, the 3rd Regiment of Artillery served in Florida as infantry. Their unit designations never changed.

Any idea if this drove up desertion rate.

 

[35th MA InfRegt]

Any idea if this drove up desertion rate.

It wouldn't surprise me if that were the case, but I don't know for certain. Soldiers in that era deserted for a multitude of reasons. Being pulled out of a safe, rear-area assignment to join the grunts on the front-line might have been as good a reason to desert as any other.

 

[Stryker65]

Don did men enlisting back then know they had a secondary mission, not talking about regular army but units raised by the states.

Sometimes it was the opposite: the 138th New York was raised as an infantry regiment to be sent into the field in early 1862, but was subsequently redesignated as the 9th Heavy Artillery and remained as such in the DC defenses for the next two years. IIRC this was the case for multiple HA units from NY and PA.

 

[Dan Kohli]

Don did men enlisting back then know they had a secondary mission, not talking about regular army but units raised by the states.

They would have an understanding that they needed to have a training in that manner of maneuver and tactics on one level or another, I would imagine. I don't doubt that they didn't except that they would end up functioning as infantry in a campaign.

 

[Dan Kohli]

Sometimes an artillery unit would be converted into infantry, did the war secretary have to approved it? Did both sides use similar procedure for unit conversion. Finally in hindsight was this sound policy, even if you don't have the cannon that moment eventually the unit will be equipped.

As far as I can tell, the units were converted if they were deemed to be a better use as said arm in a permanentish manner. Also it didn't take an act of Congress to convert volunteer units from one arm to another, unlike Regular Army units.

 

[General Casey]

The 14th Massachusetts Infantry became the 1st Massachusetts Heavy Artillery in 1862

 

[Don Dixon]

Don did men enlisting back then know they had a secondary mission, not talking about regular army but units raised by the states.

They may well not have know when they enlisted, but if they had competent officers they should have figured it out pretty quickly in training. However. Writing from Fort Williams in Baton Rouge on 1 May 1864, Colonel John A. Keith, 1st Indiana Heavy Artillery/formerly 21st Indiana Infantry, complained to the chief of artillery, Department of the Gulf, that Major General Banks had ordered his regiment be equipped as infantry. The regiment had been ordered outside its fortifications to relieve units ordered to the front, and one of his companies was performing provost duties. Regarding his arms, Keith wrote "The guns furnished us are of the poorest description, being Austrian rifles, .54 caliber, many without bayonets, and those with bayonets without bayonet scabbards. The locks are very defective." Keith "begged" that the regiment be reequipped as artillery at the earliest possible time. In making his complaints about being issued infantry weapons Keith was flying the face of contemporary doctrine because heavy artillery units were supposed to be cross trained and equipped as infantry. Many heavy artillerymen discovered this fact to their sorrow when they were ordered out of the fortifications around Washington, DC, and burned up in Lieutenant General Grant's Overland Campaign and the Siege of Petersburg in 1864 and 1865.

 

[atlantis]

I don't recall light artillery being converted just Heavy is that correct?

 

[Rhea Cole]

It would be useful to define Heavy Artillery regiments & how they are relevant to the question raised in this thread.

"Heavy Artillery" during the Civil War is a designation that often causes confusion. In one sense, it was exactly what it sounds like. Manning a giant 100 pound Columbiad was the work of specialized artillerists. Appropriate to this thread, there was also "Heavy Artillery regiments that were assigned to fortresses.

"Heavies," as they are often referred, were cross trained as infantry. The doctrine was to have the artillerists in a fortress also be capable of defending against an attack in the infantry role. During the Civil War, the heavies were not tempered by long route marches & learning to camp the way ordinary combat soldiers & troopers were. As you would imagine, heavies had a reputation of being paper collar garrison dressed & drilled as peace time bandbox soldiers.

I have gathered a collection of references, including a CWT discussion, that will clear up any misunderstanding about infantry also serving as artillery men. Read more here.

Link:

6th Heavy Artillery Regiment

museum.dmna.ny.gov

Link:

6th Heavy Artillery Regiment

museum.dmna.ny.gov

Link:

The Fourteenth Regiment Rhode Island Heavy Artillery (Colored) During the Civil War - Online Review of Rhode Island History

After years of obscurity, the courage and sacrifice of African-American soldiers who fought in the Civil War has been rediscovered by a new generation of Americans. The uncommon valor of ... Read More

smallstatebighistory.com