Union Eagle Breastplate

[grimes]

Was thinking of purchasing this Union Eagle Breastplate. I wanted to ask your opinion on it before I do though.

I compared this variation to other known originals and it looks good. Only thing that bugs me is the lower edge of the plate sticking out a little, and the splotch of solder on the back, but I have seen others with the edge sticking out a bit, and a splotch of solder.

What do you think?

 

[redbob]

Remember, these were massed produced with little quality control. It looks good and you can say that you have one that is different from others that you have seen, besides no on but you will ever notice it.

 

[Cumpston1862]

My feeling about purchasing relics is essentially two points. Dig the relic yourself so you know its real and where it came from. Granted most of us do not have the means to do this...me included. So the other option is to purchase from an established reputation based relic dealer. At the end of the day your buying two things. The relic and the seller's reputation.

 

[101combatvet]

It depends all on the asking price. I personally try to stay away from examples that might stir up questions.

 

[grimes]

Asking price was fair at market value. His reputation has been good from reviews I've found, but like anyone makes mistakes now and then, and these have only been with a few WWII items.

He has a couple other dug examples, but I wanted an undug example. The website is www.Screamneagle.com

Plus from some research, this variation doesn't seem to be reproduced.

Was posting this to get a thumbs up or thumbs down.

 

[Cumpston1862]

Asking price was fair at market value. His reputation has been good from reviews I've found, but like anyone makes mistakes now and then, and these have only been with a few WWII items.

He has a couple other dug examples, but I wanted an undug example. The website is www.Screamneagle.com

Plus from some research, this variation doesn't seem to be reproduced.

Was posting this to get a thumbs up or thumbs down.

Even the relic dealers I have purchased from and feel comfortable with have admitted they have gotten burned from time to time. It can happen to anyone as there are some very good fakes out there. It really boils down to how the guy handles it when he does make a mistake. If he backs up the things he sells with a money back guarantee you can't ask for much more than that.

 

[101combatvet]

Just doing a quick look on his WW2 stuff, he has one item that I would consider to be bad. Other things looked pretty good.

 

[E_just_E]

Reproduction. But a good one. A few things are wrong with this, but you got to check the eagle in the mouth (the easiest way to tell). The beak on that one is crooked. Here is someone who sells those. I would stay away

 

[101combatvet]

Reproduction. But a good one. A few things are wrong with this, but you got to check the eagle in the mouth (the easiest way to tell). The beak on that one is crooked. Here is someone who sells those. I would stay away

Hanover Brass Foundry has always used originals for their cast reproductions.

 

[FrankN]

"Civil War Relic Man" has some great information about what to look for. Many originals to compare or purchase. If you scroll to the bottom of his page you can go to a section on fakes and what you don't want to see. Here's a link to his sight and a 2nd link to a listing of many fine dealers and info.

http://relicman.com/

http://www.civilwardealers.com

Frank

 

[grimes]

Reproduction. But a good one. A few things are wrong with this, but you got to check the eagle in the mouth (the easiest way to tell). The beak on that one is crooked. Here is someone who sells those. I would stay away

Why would you say reproduction. I looked at relicman and other dealers who have this particular variation and they have the crooked beak.

The one at Hanover Brass is similar, but you can tell the differences.


I have been told by 4 people on and off this forum that it is an original, and also, Homer Cole at Cole's Civil War Shop (listed by relicman) sold one of these exact variations not too long ago.

 

[Frederick14Va]

I do not see anything "obvious" that would flag it as a reproduction, but also difficult when not examining the item in question first hand and in person.

Many originals have sharper die stamping details that majority of reproductions lack. But also some of the sub-contract makers had weaker dies that generally lacked the smaller details... and/or a specific specimen might have worn down smooth details... Many collectors tend to be habitually skeptical of these breast plates because they are a bit easier to replicate... If one finds a quality example of one made in the 1950-70's era that has had a number years of reenactor usage... now having some patina, wear marks and minor scratches-dings.... it could very easily pass off as a non-dug original... even under the scrutiny radar of many experts... I have and use one of the older quality reproductions.. if taken off the cartridge box strap and placed beside an identified non-dug original.. Most can not tell which is which... Heed of cautious when purchasing one.

 

[grimes]

I do not see anything "obvious" that would flag it as a reproduction, but also difficult when not examining the item in question first hand and in person.

Many originals have sharper die stamping details that majority of reproductions lack. But also some of the sub-contract makers had weaker dies that generally lacked the smaller details... and/or a specific specimen might have worn down smooth details... Many collectors tend to be habitually skeptical of these breast plates because they are a bit easier to replicate... If one finds a quality example of one made in the 1950-70's era that has had a number years of reenactor usage... now having some patina, wear marks and minor scratches-dings.... it could very easily pass off as a non-dug original... even under the scrutiny radar of many experts... I have and use one of the older quality reproductions.. if taken off the cartridge box strap and placed beside an identified non-dug original.. Most can not tell which is which... Heed of cautious when purchasing one.

Very good piece of advice.

I read that one of the best ways is to check if the filler is solder or lead, as the originals were filled with solder. You use your fingernail to lightly rub the back, and if it is bright-shiny, it is lead and thus, a reproduction.



Here is relicman's example, extremely poorly struck and worn as he notes, but it is pattern 451. Notice the bubble of solder at the center of the back, and the ring of solder on the back. Including the bent lip edge of brass from the stamping.

Same as my pattern 451.

 

[grimes]

Here is another original plate variation 451 from Dan Patterson at Civil War Connection (also listed by relicman) dug at Cedar Creek.

I think from the research, it would be a good guess to say that the plate I bought seems to be an original variation 451.