Uniform ID assistance requested

[Ray Ball]

In doing some research we came upon this photo. At first we thought 'pioneer' or 'artificer' but then noticed the entire jacket is foreign to us. Seems like chasseurs of some sort but its new to us. If anyone has some information we'd sure appreciate it. Thanks in advance folks.

 

[Joe Walker]

My first response is that he is wearing "Zouave" garments.........looks like a "Pioneer" type.

 

[Ray Ball]

I agree Joe Walker ut was looking for anything more specific- thanks

 

[CMWinkler]

In looking at the photo, his patch on his arm appears to read "Co G" and 111" though it might be 114. Does that help?

 

[FrenchZouave]

Not "Pioneers". Strange, where did the the photo originate? It does have the trappings on the shoulder of Zouave lace and "Ball" buttons. I'm wondering post-war.

 

[Eagle eye]

In looking at the photo, his patch on his arm appears to read "Co G" and 111" though it might be 114. Does that help?

CMW…does the shovel & pick on his patch represent Pioneers or perhaps Engineer company's ? I don't remember ever seeing that before.
Thanks
EE

 

[CMWinkler]

CMW…does the shovel & pick on his patch represent Pioneers or perhaps Engineer company's ? I don't remember ever seeing that before.
Thanks
EE

I 've never seen it, either. I did some quick searching and couldn't find anything on it other than a discussion on another forum which didn't really have an answer either. It remains a puzzle to me.

 

[Eagle eye]

I 've never seen it, either. I did some quick searching and couldn't find anything on it other than a discussion on another forum which didn't really have an answer either. It remains a puzzle to me.

Thinking about it I can't really remember any type of unit emblem other then Branch of Service & AOP Corps badges. Suppose there could be. Could it be a representation of his units flag???? Unofficial I would guess but might be fun to look into…thanks for the info.

 

[BillO]

Don't really know but looks French to me.

 

[Nathanb1]

Bumped. Let's see if we can solve this!

 

[Shadow9216]

The magic of "Teh Google" has revealed this discussion:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=297073

 

[Nathanb1]

The magic of "Teh Google" has revealed this discussion:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=297073

Cool. Check that one off the list. Anyone else?

 

[AUG]

Thanks for posting that link. It looks like they never entirely figured out who the man in the photo was or if he was the "Patrick Fitzpatrick" that they were searching for. The suspected units seemed to be the 13th NY Heavy Artillery, 1st Engineers, or the 111th NY Infantry, although the man in the photo is wearing an unknown engineer or pioneer patch. One problem is that the typical engineer patch is a castle and a pioneer is two crossed axes, but the one he is wearing is a pick and shovel.

 

[Ray Ball]

To my knowledge the 1st NYVE never wore zouave uniforms and were recruited as Engineers. They were issued frocks in 61. Engineers did not wear the sleeve patches other than artificers and that is not too common. The crossed axes are the symbol of the pioneers and not Engineers. That patch is the real mystery. I've never seen anything like it. The 14th Brooklyn had Engineers of their own per-war, but they were assimilated into the infantry prior to mustering in. Could it be the uniform of a zouave militia's pioneers or Engineers?

 

[Shadow9216]

A quick Google-Fu turned up the following:
Expired Image Removed
Obviously of later vintage, it at least shows that the pick/shovel motif was associated with engineers.

 

[Nathanb1]

Your image isn't showing up, unfortunately. Try again?

Now it is. Great!

To my knowledge the 1st NYVE never wore zouave uniforms and were recruited as Engineers. They were issued frocks in 61. Engineers did not wear the sleeve patches other than artificers and that is not too common. The crossed axes are the symbol of the pioneers and not Engineers. That patch is the real mystery. I've never seen anything like it. The 14th Brooklyn had Engineers of their own per-war, but they were assimilated into the infantry prior to mustering in. Could it be the uniform of a zouave militia's pioneers or Engineers?

Isn't that sort of the concensus they reached on the site? Well, you know the saying....someone will know.

 

[Shadow9216]

Now it is. Great!


Isn't that sort of the concensus they reached on the site? Well, you know the saying....someone will know.

Ah, but that was their consensus...now we must find our own

 

[Nathanb1]

Ah, but that was their consensus...now we must find our own

Too true. And I'm glad I looked at that site. Makes me want to go hug Mike. It's hard to tell who's answering who....or what the heck they came up with. One of the many reasons I've hung around here all these years.

 

[Shadow9216]

Looks like the pick/shovel insignia was used in the Commonwealth nations for engineers as well. Irish tie-in perhaps? Alternatively, the insignia is close to that of the United Mine Workers of America, who came out of the American Miners' Association- formed in 1861 in Missouri. Relevance? None perhaps, but included for completeness.