UCV Reunion Hat Pin

[Deerhunterr82]

I was wondering if this Bonnie Blue UCV hat pin is legit. Thanks in advance

 

[RedRover]

Seems more likely the Bonnie Blue flag of Somalia...

UCV hat badges looked like this...

 

[UCVRelics]

UCV

Interesting hat pin. Just wondering what makes you think its a UCV item?

 

[Deerhunterr82]

Interesting hat pin. Just wondering what makes you think its a UCV item?

Just the design of the wreath and the pins on the back. But im not expert, so not real sure

 

[Deerhunterr82]

Just the design of the wreath and the pins on the back. But im not expert, so not real sure

Just trying to find out any info on it.

 

[UCVRelics]

Just trying to find out any info on it.

With the screw back pin design which requires a hole in the front on the cap it not UCV, I'm leaning some sort of band or maybe a fraternal organization.

 

[JOHN42768]

There has been a gradual evolution in attaching methods of insignia. In the 19th Century metallic insignia were attached by wire prongs or loops. In the 1890s the first screw back insignia appeared. About the same time pin-back insignia also became more common. Both of these means were commonly used on the large number of insignia produced during the First World War. It was not until after the First World War that the makers of insignia considered if there might be superior means of attaching them. During the war the focus was on producing a volume of insignia to meet the nation's needs. After the war in a market that had suddenly contracted people asked the question can we produce a higher quality insignia that will stand out among the competition? During the 1920s and into the 1930s you begin to see various new kinds of means used to attach insignia other than the familiar screw back posts and pin-backs of World War one. There were a number of small screw posts with small retaining nuts that could be pushed through a fine fabric without doing much damage. The larger screw posts used during World War One left a gaping hole. These smaller screw posts were mostly used in pairs and were on privately purchased officers' insignia. During the Second World War these various screw attachments disappeared from use and were replaced by pointed posts and clutch fasteners.
Ref: American Military Patches, Other Insignia and Decorations of World War Two by Dr. Howard G. Lanham c.2011[/H4]

 

[Deerhunterr82]

There has been a gradual evolution in attaching methods of insignia. In the 19th Century metallic insignia were attached by wire prongs or loops. In the 1890s the first screw back insignia appeared. About the same time pin-back insignia also became more common. Both of these means were commonly used on the large number of insignia produced during the First World War. It was not until after the First World War that the makers of insignia considered if there might be superior means of attaching them. During the war the focus was on producing a volume of insignia to meet the nation's needs. After the war in a market that had suddenly contracted people asked the question can we produce a higher quality insignia that will stand out among the competition? During the 1920s and into the 1930s you begin to see various new kinds of means used to attach insignia other than the familiar screw back posts and pin-backs of World War one. There were a number of small screw posts with small retaining nuts that could be pushed through a fine fabric without doing much damage. The larger screw posts used during World War One left a gaping hole. These smaller screw posts were mostly used in pairs and were on privately purchased officers' insignia. During the Second World War these various screw attachments disappeared from use and were replaced by pointed posts and clutch fasteners.
Ref: American Military Patches, Other Insignia and Decorations of World War Two by Dr. Howard G. Lanham c.2011[/H4]

So do you think this could possibly be UCV? Just trying to find out any info on it

 

[Woods-walker]

I was wondering if this Bonnie Blue UCV hat pin is legit. Thanks in advanceView attachment 575436View attachment 575439View attachment 575438

It was used by the Somali military and Somali police from the Somali Democratic Republic period (1969–1991)

 

[JOHN42768]

So do you think this could possibly be UCV? Just trying to find out any info on it

Not likely by 1890.

 

[R. Porter]

It was used by the Somali military and Somali police from the Somali Democratic Republic period (1969–1991)

Other than the light blue flag shoulder patch shown above, do you have any evidence for this?

It reminds me of the fantasy pieces that keep showing up on eBay that look like they were made in the 1920's or 1930's. Usually these have the letters, "CS", in a block style superimposed over something else like a wreath. Think World War 1 period sweetheart jewelry with CS instead of US. Some of these have a pin construction that suggest a post-WW1 German origin. I don't know when these pieces were made, maybe as late as the Centennial? If it's one of these it's a fantasy piece and was never a part of anybody's military uniform.

 

[Deerhunterr82]

Not likely by 1890.

So definitely not UCV?

 

[R. Porter]

Another thought, it could be the legitimate cap badge of a steamship line. That might make it of value to a particular group of collectors.

 

[Salterr]

So definitely not UCV?

Not at all related to the UCV. Look at the back and you will see two different types of metal color. The stubby pins are also not correct for UCV or any civil war insignia. eBay is full of these married examples and all are fake. The screw back fasteners are much later than the war or start of the veteran groups.

 

[R. Porter]

Some blue flags with white stars:

George D. Gratsos S.A. (Shipping company, Greece)

Understanding the Bonnie Blue Flag Meaning

Have you ever wondered about the symbolism and meaning behind the Bonnie Blue Flag? Learn about this rich history in the latest blog by AmericanFlags.com!

www.americanflags.com

https://www.reddit.com/r/CunardLineHistory/comments/yo060q/flags_and_funnels_of_cunard_and_associated

 

[Woods-walker]

N

Other than the light blue flag shoulder patch shown above, do you have any evidence for this?

It reminds me of the fantasy pieces that keep showing up on eBay that look like they were made in the 1920's or 1930's. Usually these have the letters, "CS", in a block style superimposed over something else like a wreath. Think World War 1 period sweetheart jewelry with CS instead of US. Some of these have a pin construction that suggest a post-WW1 German origin. I don't know when these pieces were made, maybe as late as the Centennial? If it's one of these it's a fantasy piece and was never a part of anybody's military

Other than the light blue flag shoulder patch shown above, do you have any evidence for this?

It reminds me of the fantasy pieces that keep showing up on eBay that look like they were made in the 1920's or 1930's. Usually these have the letters, "CS", in a block style superimposed over something else like a wreath. Think World War 1 period sweetheart jewelry with CS instead of US. Some of these have a pin construction that suggest a post-WW1 German origin. I don't know when these pieces were made, maybe as late as the Centennial? If it's one of these it's a fantasy piece and was never a part of anybody's military uniform.

Other than the light blue flag shoulder patch shown above, do you have any evidence for this?

It reminds me of the fantasy pieces that keep showing up on eBay that look like they were made in the 1920's or 1930's. Usually these have the letters, "CS", in a block style superimposed over something else like a wreath. Think World War 1 period sweetheart jewelry with CS instead of US. Some of these have a pin construction that suggest a post-WW1 German origin. I don't know when these pieces were made, maybe as late as the Centennial? If it's one of these it's a fantasy piece and was never a part of anybody's military uniform.

Actually I have no hard evidence I can share other than I spent some time there , with my career, on and off during the years I stated and recall seeing the badges and flag. As a Southerner, I remember thinking it odd seeing the "Bonnie Blue" there.
But lets not lose sight that the thread isn't about the origin, its about the authenticity of the badge that was posted.

 

[R. Porter]

N





Actually I have no hard evidence I can share other than I spent some time there , with my career, on and off during the years I stated and recall seeing the badges and flag. As a Southerner, I remember thinking it odd seeing the "Bonnie Blue" there.
But lets not lose sight that the thread isn't about the origin, its about the authenticity of the badge that was posted.

The wreath on the badge in the original post looks like the one on the UCV badge. The screw back suggests a time period of manufacture. I think a guesstimate is post WW1. If the badge was in use for an entity with a blue flag having a single star, that entity should have been in operation during the period after WW1 or else it is some sort of memorial badge.

It appears the Cunard Line used their version before 1865 but not after. The Somali national flag was adopted October 12, 1954. From what little I have discovered online about the George D. Gratsos shipping company, it seems to have arisen after WW2 so may have used the badge as a cap badge. The cap badge may have been some sort of memorial badge for the Bonnie Blue Flag.

The review of possible flags being displayed on the badge helps to determine what kind of authentic badge it could be. It still could be an authentic shipping company badge, maybe a Somali military badge or badge commemorating the Bonnie Blue Flag. Further investigation is required. Of course it could be an unauthentic fantasy badge associated with the Bonnie Blue Flag.