Turner Ashby

JerryD

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 23, 2021
Reading Cozzens book on Jackson's Valley Campaign, and he presents a very conflicted view of Turner Ashby. And to be honest, it has me puzzled. No one denies he was fearless and brave, but it seems he was rather unreliable and did not keep his troopers under control. The book is replete with examples of his cavalry failures due to lack of discipline. And yet Jackson, a noted martinet who insisted on absolute discipline and obeyance to orders apparently loved him. What am I missing here?

I did note that when he died Jackson said he was was a great partisan, not a great cavalryman. Was he holding Ashby to a different standard?
 
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Reading Cozzens book on Jackson's Valley Campaign, and he presents a very conflicted view of Turner Ashby. And to be honest, it has me puzzled. No one denies he was fearless and brave, but it seems he was rather unreliable and did not keep his troopers under control. The book is replete with examples of his cavalry failures due to lack of discipline. And yet Jackson, a noted martinet who insisted on absolute discipline and obeyance to orders apparently loved him. What am I missing here?

I did not that when he died Jackson said he was was a great partisan, not a great cavalryman. Was he holding Ashby to a different standard?
Well considering Jackson blocked his promotion not wanting to lose him says it all really.

Ashby was a first rate Cavalry commander and Jackson knew it but Jackson being Jackson as we saw with Maxcy Gregg you would have to be on your deathbed or be killed in battle to get him to praise you to high heaven imho.
 
... yet Jackson ...apparently loved him. ...
Is that part true?
As I understand it Ashby and Jackson had a conflict over command roles at the end of April and Ashby tried to resign and only Winder's intervention kept him from following through.
And as I understand it Jackson kept trying to block Ashby's promotion becuase he didnt think he deserved it
 
Is that part true?
As I understand it Ashby and Jackson had a conflict over command roles at the end of April and Ashby tried to resign and only Winder's intervention kept him from following through.
And as I understand it Jackson kept trying to block Ashby's promotion becuase he didnt think he deserved it
Its partly true Ned but it wasn't that Jackson was against Ashby's promotion he just did not want him replaced and promoting him would have meant his re-assignment , I mean if Jackson really thought he was that bad he wouldn't have stopped him from leaving it would be easier just to let him go?.
 
Any conflict between General Jackson and General Ashby was of a professional nature. Ashby had no professional military training, and had no particular interest in acquiring any. His habit, daily, was not to sit in a headquarters, but to personally ride the entire circuit of his picket lines. In this he frequently witnessed or partook in an extraordinary amount of skirmishing for a senior officer.

Certainly in a military way, it would have been better for Ashby to have trained other officers of his staff, etc. to conduct such observations, while he commanded from the rear, but it so happened that he was the master horseman of the Blue Ridge before the war, winning many races bareback, etc. and it was said he had traversed Northern Virginia's entire rural countryside many times over with horse, dog, and gun. For example, while he missed the action at First Manassas, he was sorry for it, as he was familiar with the ground from occasionally fox hunting upon it...

Ashby's own veterans admitted his large command was not well organized during the Valley campaign:

1665189467990.png


When Jackson attempted to place the lions' share of Ashby's cavalry under other officers, he resigned his commission, which was not accepted or forwarded by Jackson, who revoked his order. A brief account from Ashby's chaplain, J.B. Avirrett:

1665189334168.png


Ashby left issues of discipline and organization to the captains commanding the companies of his command, which swelled to something like 26 companies by the time of his death. While he had been promoted to Brigadier-General, and had a brigade worth of cavalry and artillery companies, amidst the active service he did not attend to any sort of brigade organization before his death.

Here R.P. Chew, who commanded Ashby's horse artillery battery, comments on the supposed controversy between Jackson and Ashby relative to the battle near Winchester May 25, etc. From the History of the Ashby Cavalry, or Laurel Brigade by McDonald, 1907:

1665187148781.png


Chew wrote in 1867:

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Chew comments on Ashby's boldness at Jackson's defeat at Kernstown:

1665188613192.png

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It is true that Jackson slapped Ashby with a feather after his death, noting he did not know of his equal as a "partisan officer":

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Some of Ashby's men disliked this comment, as Ashby was an officer of volunteers, and not partisan corps, and their custom in combat was the mounted regular cavalry charge when required, and otherwise dismounted skirmishing when that was to advantage. Ashby also personally organized Chew's horse battery, the first really successful battery of horse-artillery in America since the war with Mexico, and soon to be copied to a great degree.

1665189607133.png


The brigade served under many gallant commanders during the war, but then, and after, considered themselves "Ashby's Cavalry."
 
Ashby, to me, is a carbon copy of John Hunt Morgan

- Flashes of brilliance but other actions proved otherwise.
- Although not a diehard secessionist, his brother being killed drove a spike of hate for the Union through his heart.
- Going back on my previous comment, it caused him to make rash decisions out of spite, hate, revenge…you name it and not always with positive outcomes.

The two could be brilliant but could also make major tactical and/or strategic mistakes. Either way, big fan of both for their no sh*ts given attitudes.

Unfortunately, neither would live to see the end of the war.
 
I think people just look at the fact that he was Jackson's cavalry leader during a very successful campaign so they just lump him in with that success. But that doesn't really evaluate the details.

As others have said his men were more partisans than cavalry and some of the civilians in the valley were more fearful of them than the Yankees.

Lastly, a leader that gets killed, especially early in the war, gets lionized. I read Cozzens work a couple of years ago and I thought he was very fair in his analysis of Ashby and laid out all the data to make his case.
 

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