Too many Canadians.

[Pat Young]

I've got one set of gg grandparents who were German by birth but lived in Nova Scotia before coming to the US. The grandpa served the CSA but was in Florida so didn't really do much.

I don't see why a Canadian would have joined our shootout either. It would have been quite awkward had England got into it with the US, say if the Trent thing went really sour or some such.

Not all Canadians were particularly pro-English.

 

[67th Tigers]

Just a question. Were these men Canadian immigrants or were they recruited in Canada specifically to serve as soldiers?

Rankin was a serving Canadian militia Colonel, and the Lancers were recruited from the Canadian militia.

 

[Pat Young]

Rankin was a serving Canadian militia Colonel, and the Lancers were recruited from the Canadian militia.

Thanks.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Visions of,

Differences between Americans and Canadians

While the film uses the difference between the Canadians ("handpicked volunteers of the best Army in the world") and the Americans ("scum of the stockade") for comedic and dramatic effect, the reality was of course that the differences between the two groups were much more subtle. In the book "The Devil's Brigade" a Forceman recounted that the Canadians "had some funny ways. When you passed them food in the Mess Hall, they would let you hold the platter or bowl while they helped themselves. The only way we broke this habit up was to just let the dish drop in their laps. It worked." Canadian sergeants and warrant officers, used to eating in their own Mess seperate from corporals and privates, also had to get used to messing with the troops.

Jeffrey Williams, in his book "The Long Left Flank" (Stoddard Publishing Co. 1988) recounted the experience of the Third Canadian Division in Europe in late 194 http://www.canuck.freehosting.net/devil.htm

4. "It was the first time that General Spry's men had had direct dealings with Americans. They were intrigued by their language which was familiar but seemed non-military - torches were flashlights, petrol was gasoline. They were fascinated by their equipment, their robust 'deuce-and-(a)-halfs' and four-wheel drive 'threequarters' (2 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks), their weapons and rations. They liked the U.S. .30 calibre carbine but wouldn't swap a Browning automatic rifle for a Bren. In fact, there was little that the Americans had that they envied, certainly not their rations nor their clothing. Everyone shivered in that damp November but the Americans 'looked' colder. As one battalion commander put it 'They were great guys, good soldiers who had fought well. We gained a great respect for them but their ways were not our ways.'"
http://www.canuck.freehosting.net/devil.htm

 

[Pat Young]

Visions of,
View attachment 41011
Differences between Americans and Canadians

While the film uses the difference between the Canadians ("handpicked volunteers of the best Army in the world") and the Americans ("scum of the stockade") for comedic and dramatic effect, the reality was of course that the differences between the two groups were much more subtle. In the book "The Devil's Brigade" a Forceman recounted that the Canadians "had some funny ways. When you passed them food in the Mess Hall, they would let you hold the platter or bowl while they helped themselves. The only way we broke this habit up was to just let the dish drop in their laps. It worked." Canadian sergeants and warrant officers, used to eating in their own Mess seperate from corporals and privates, also had to get used to messing with the troops.

Jeffrey Williams, in his book "The Long Left Flank" (Stoddard Publishing Co. 1988) recounted the experience of the Third Canadian Division in Europe in late 194 http://www.canuck.freehosting.net/devil.htm

4. "It was the first time that General Spry's men had had direct dealings with Americans. They were intrigued by their language which was familiar but seemed non-military - torches were flashlights, petrol was gasoline. They were fascinated by their equipment, their robust 'deuce-and-(a)-halfs' and four-wheel drive 'threequarters' (2 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks), their weapons and rations. They liked the U.S. .30 calibre carbine but wouldn't swap a Browning automatic rifle for a Bren. In fact, there was little that the Americans had that they envied, certainly not their rations nor their clothing. Everyone shivered in that damp November but the Americans 'looked' colder. As one battalion commander put it 'They were great guys, good soldiers who had fought well. We gained a great respect for them but their ways were not our ways.'"
http://www.canuck.freehosting.net/devil.htm

I had forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Blessmag]

Texans make up a good population of this forum.....

you might not what to anger them.....

What, me Worry? Wayne is out tinkering with his snow blower and Nate is sleeping thru summer school, and BBF thinking about a song and.....

 

[John Winn]

Not all Canadians were particularly pro-English.

I'm beginning to get the picture but I had a notion that many Canadians would have had hard feelings about Americans stemming from the War of 1812 and might not have been so eager to come to our rescue in a personal way. I'm still trying to get re-educated (or is it un uneducated ? Now I'm so confused ... again).

 

[Pat Young]

I'm beginning to get the picture but I had a notion that many Canadians would have had hard feelings about Americans stemming from the War of 1812 and might not have been so eager to come to our rescue in a personal way. I'm still trying to get re-educated (or is it un uneducated ? Now I'm so confused ... again).

A large number of Canadians were French-speakers. Many others were immigrants who came after the war of 1812. The UELs may figure in genealogy but they were only a part of the population. The large number of Canadians who had moved to the US by 1860 may also indicate low levels of "Canadian" nationalism within many segments of the population.

 

[28thNewYork]

Many of the individuals who fought in the ACW were not alive during the War of 1812. Canada, at the time of the ACW, was made up of several different "provinces" controlled by England, of which the largest was the Province of Canada, composed of what later became both Ontario and Quebec. There was then, as there is now, friction and animosity between the French- and English-speaking residents. The area around Montreal was noted as also being more supportive of the CS.

 

[major bill]

The Detroit Free Press of Jan. 24 1862 had an article stating that Colonel Cameron (from a non Michigan regiment) was attempting to form a Scottish Regiment and would accept full companies of Canadian Scotsmen from the disband Rankin Lancers. A few days latter an advertisement was run in the newspapers about Cameron wanting former members of the Lancers to join his regiment. From this I would assume a fair amount of the Rankin Lancers were Scottish Canadians. Please note that recruiting officers in Detroit had a stack of prepared enlistment papers which would show that the Canadians were from "Wisconsin" and any member of the Rankin Lancers from "Wisconsin" was most probably Canadian.

This is from some notes I took and if you are interested Pat I could copy the original article.

 

[Pat Young]

The Detroit Free Press of Jan. 24 1862 had an article stating that Colonel Cameron (from a non Michigan regiment) was attempting to form a Scottish Regiment and would accept full companies of Canadian Scotsmen from the disband Rankin Lancers. A few days latter an advertisement was run in the newspapers about Cameron wanting former members of the Lancers to join his regiment. From this I would assume a fair amount of the Rankin Lancers were Scottish Canadians. Please note that recruiting officers in Detroit had a stack of prepared enlistment papers which would show that the Canadians were from "Wisconsin" and any member of the Rankin Lancers from "Wisconsin" was most probably Canadian.

This is from some notes I took and if you are interested Pat I could copy the original article.

If it isn't too much trouble.

 

[major bill]

The First United States Lancers a.k.a. Rankin's Lancers a.k.a. Michigan Lancers (the headquarters was in Detroit but the companies formed in several cities)The Detroit Daily Advertiser indicates they were to be armed like the 16th Regiment of British Lancers however; originally, they were issued 7 state owned smooth-bore muskets and 12 state owned musketoons. They eventually were armed with lances, carbines, dragoon revolvers and sabers. Samuel Shaw made both the lances and swords. In other source, Samuel Shaw is referred to as W. H Shaw. The lances provided by Shaw were nine feet, seven inches long with eleven inches of that being a double bladed lance head, which was one and a half inches wide at the widest point. The pennons were red and white. When the First United States Lancers were disbanded, the state collected the lances and stored then for further use.It was suggested that they would make good sears for spear fishing.

 

[Pat Young]

The First United States Lancers a.k.a. Rankin's Lancers a.k.a. Michigan Lancers (the headquarters was in Detroit but the companies formed in several cities)The Detroit Daily Advertiser indicates they were to be armed like the 16th Regiment of British Lancers however; originally, they were issued 7 state owned smooth-bore muskets and 12 state owned musketoons. They eventually were armed with lances, carbines, dragoon revolvers and sabers. Samuel Shaw made both the lances and swords. In other source, Samuel Shaw is referred to as W. H Shaw. The lances provided by Shaw were nine feet, seven inches long with eleven inches of that being a double bladed lance head, which was one and a half inches wide at the widest point. The pennons were red and white. When the First United States Lancers were disbanded, the state collected the lances and stored then for further use.It was suggested that they would make good sears for spear fishing.

Musketoons?

 

[major bill]

Michigan had almost exhausted all its supply of long arms by the time the regiment was forming. In 1832 Michiagn received some Hall carbines. In 1853, 40 additional Hall carbines arrive. It appears that the carbines were often referred to as musketoons. It was the intent of the State to issue Hall carbines and artillery swords to artillery companies. By 1861 most of the artillery companies were armed with artillery swords and Colt revolvers with the older carbine being issued to various juvenile companies. It is my guess that the lancers were issued some musketoons to stand guard with and train with until more modern arms arrived.

 

[Pat Young]

Michigan had almost exhausted all its supply of long arms by the time the regiment was forming. In 1832 Michiagn received some Hall carbines. In 1853, 40 additional Hall carbines arrive. It appears that the carbines were often referred to as musketoons. It was the intent of the State to issue Hall carbines and artillery swords to artillery companies. By 1861 most of the artillery companies were armed with artillery swords and Colt revolvers with the older carbine being issued to various juvenile companies. It is my guess that the lancers were issued some musketoons to stand guard with and train with until more modern arms arrived.

Thanks.

 

[Pat Young]

Many of the individuals who fought in the ACW were not alive during the War of 1812. Canada, at the time of the ACW, was made up of several different "provinces" controlled by England, of which the largest was the Province of Canada, composed of what later became both Ontario and Quebec. There was then, as there is now, friction and animosity between the French- and English-speaking residents. The area around Montreal was noted as also being more supportive of the CS.

There was a fair amount of subversion afoot in Canada back then .

 

[Evan]

I am very intrigued by this thread for a certain reason...

 

[rbasin]

Many of the individuals who fought in the ACW were not alive during the War of 1812. Canada, at the time of the ACW, was made up of several different "provinces" controlled by England, of which the largest was the Province of Canada, composed of what later became both Ontario and Quebec. There was then, as there is now, friction and animosity between the French- and English-speaking residents. The area around Montreal was noted as also being more supportive of the CS.

You actually had two- Canada West and Canada East.

 

[matthew mckeon]

I attended a talk in Lowell from an author writing a history of a Vermont regiment. He said they got many recruits from Canada. It was easy to cross the border and some had family ties to the Vermonters. He said they didn't join in the first rush and "thought about it."(fighting for the Union), deciding it was worth the effort.

I was also in Queenston and Niagara on the Lake a few years back. The region was a refuge for African Americans escaping slavery before the war(most left during or after the war to return to the States), and then a refuge for Confederate officials after the war, waiting to see if the US would pursue them or not. Most of them ended up returning to the US as well.

I'll look up the guy's name. He also wrote Mutiny At Fort Jackson in which immigrants also play a significant role.

 

[Pat Young]

I attended a talk in Lowell from an author writing a history of a Vermont regiment. He said they got many recruits from Canada. It was easy to cross the border and some had family ties to the Vermonters. He said they didn't join in the first rush and "thought about it."(fighting for the Union), deciding it was worth the effort.

I was also in Queenston and Niagara on the Lake a few years back. The region was a refuge for African Americans escaping slavery before the war(most left during or after the war to return to the States), and then a refuge for Confederate officials after the war, waiting to see if the US would pursue them or not. Most of them ended up returning to the US as well.

I'll look up the guy's name. He also wrote Mutiny At Fort Jackson in which immigrants also play a significant role.

Michael D. Pierson may be the writer of whom you speak. The Ft. Jackson book is intriguing.