This gun was probably at Gettysburg

[cannonmn]

We know this gun was at Bull Run, captured, and soon reissued by Edward Alexander to Confederate forces. We think it was used by Rowan Artillery until April 1865. But we'd like to get it back to Bull Run.

 

[Will Carry]

That is an awesome artillery piece! I thank you for posting it. I cannot imagine how terrifying and exhilarating, fighting with that weapon was. One soldier who used rifled artillery during the war, commented in a letter, that they could "Pick a bogger out of your nose at 1000 yards."

 

[6thMichCav]

There is a (1993?) video on YouTube of a 3" gun firing at a wrecked personnel carrier—on the RECEIVING END! You see a puff of smoke in the distance, count to three, and the shell flutters by or smacks the APC with a satisfying crash. They later show the firing end, which is much less exhilarating.

That video really brought home the effects attributed to different shells—whizz, roar, fluttering like a bird, tearing a sheet, or meowing like a cat. I highly recommend it!

 

[archieclement]

Where is cannon currently?

 

[cannonmn]

A family in Prince William County VA owns it now. There's lots of research info on this piece in a very long thread on Graybeard Blackpowder Cannons if u are interested in details.

 

[PA Gary]

There is a (1993?) video on YouTube of a 3" gun firing at a wrecked personnel carrier—on the RECEIVING END! You see a puff of smoke in the distance, count to three, and the shell flutters by or smacks the APC with a satisfying crash. They later show the firing end, which is much less exhilarating.

That video really brought home the effects attributed to different shells—whizz, roar, fluttering like a bird, tearing a sheet, or meowing like a cat. I highly recommend it!

This may be the video that you're referring to?

 

[CavRTO]

This may be the video that you're referring to?

Frightening piece to be on the opposite side of. Any idea where this was recorded?

 

[PA Gary]

Frightening piece to be on the opposite side of. Any idea where this was recorded?

The YouTube info says Ft. McCoy, Wisconsin, 1990.

 

[lelliott19]

A family in Prince William County VA owns it now. There's lots of research info on this piece in a very long thread on Graybeard Blackpowder Cannons if u are interested in details.

Is this the same 10 pounder Parrott tube that was allegedly recovered by two sons of John Cross and remained on the John Cross farm until it was sold to the Akers family? And that disappeared under mysterious circumstances in 1965? Or is this a different missing Parrott?

 

[cannonmn]

Thanks. No. This one the NPS wants is no. 10. The one you mention had the front few feet blown off and missing. The NPS went out to the farm in 1960's and examined it well enough to copy down all remaining marks which, in the production records, track back to no. 6. It is still missing. I have the whole story, as much as is known to the NPS, if someone wants to read it.

 

[lelliott19]

Thanks. No. This one the NPS wants is no. 10. The one you mention had the front few feet blown off and missing. The NPS went out to the farm in 1960's and examined it well enough to copy down all remaining marks which, in the production records, track back to no. 6. It is still missing.

This whole topic is fascinating to me. So the one being sought Number 10 was gifted to a PA cemetery? And then the cemetery sold it? I guess I just assumed that any US property used for memorialization remained the property of the US. Like basically a loan for exhibition but not actual ownership. I had no idea cemeteries or states could legally sell US property - even if it had been given for display purposes. Seems like they should have to give it back instead of sell it. Are the other 8 guns of the original 10 present and accounted for somewhere? In other words, is the location of them known?

 

[cannonmn]

Some states have recently enacted legislation prohibiting sale of memorial cannons, most have not. Until such legislation there was nothing prohibiting custodians of such property from selling because in most cases the legislation directing the transfer from the government was not worded in terms of a loan, but a gift with no government strings. In some cases a loan was specified, in particular the Navy sent some pieces out as loans, and some of those have been retrieved or "return requested" by the Navy. However the vast majority of some 6500 "known" pieces still in existence were gifts and a couple thousand of those are now privately owned. and legally so, including no. 10. The original legislation directing almost all such transfers is easily available on the web via "Statutes at large" and other compilations of legislation. The Act transferring no. 10 transferred four iron cannons to a particular GAR post in N.E. Pa. and I think the bill's exact wording appears in my thread on this cannon on the Graybeard site.

 

[Story]

This whole topic is fascinating to me. So the one being sought Number 10 was gifted to a PA cemetery? And then the cemetery sold it? I guess I just assumed that any US property used for memorialization remained the property of the US. Like basically a loan for exhibition but not actual ownership. I had no idea cemeteries or states could legally sell US property - even if it had been given for display purposes. Seems like they should have to give it back instead of sell it. Are the other 8 guns of the original 10 present and accounted for somewhere? In other words, is the location of them known?

Once upon a time I had a pre-WWI sheet of ordnance pieces gifted from a central repository to different locations (the Memorial Hall at Philadelphia's Belmont Plateau being one) that detailed what they were and where Uncle Sam acquired them (in this particular case, two Spanish 18 lb long guns from Cuba, IIRC). IIRC I sourced that from the National Achieves down in DC.

I believe that the Center for Military History now holds sway over all those memorial pieces, or at least thinks they do. In one particular case I'm familiar with, one of those stone post-WWI American Legion Halls had a German WW2 7.5cm AT gun out front. The Hall had been sold off ages ago and went through a couple of owner turnovers before winding up with some artistes, who painted the aforementioned gun a hot pink.

One of them told me that a USAF flatbed with a small crane showed up one morning. He walked out with his coffee and said, Bugs Bunny style, "whatchya up to, Doc?"

Long story short, dude got his lawyer on speed dial 'cause it falls under the laws of the Commonwealth ("yeah, we've been de factor owners of it since the folks you relinquished it to have been out of the picture for +25 years")

The flip side of the coin is how fast the government snapped up a German 10.5cm after another defunct AL Hall was purchased by folks who turned it into upscale condos - the difference there being that it was only the first turnover.

Make sense?

 

[cannonmn]

Once upon a time I had a pre-WWI sheet of ordnance pieces gifted from a central repository to different locations (the Memorial Hall at Philadelphia's Belmont Plateau being one) that detailed what they were and where Uncle Sam acquired them (in this particular case, two Spanish 18 lb long guns from Cuba, IIRC). IIRC I sourced that from the National Achieves down in DC.

I believe that the Center for Military History now holds sway over all those memorial pieces, or at least thinks they do. In one particular case I'm familiar with, one of those stone post-WWI American Legion Halls had a German WW2 7.5cm AT gun out front. The Hall had been sold off ages ago and went through a couple of owner turnovers before winding up with some artistes, who painted the aforementioned gun a hot pink.

One of them told me that a USAF flatbed with a small crane showed up one morning. He walked out with his coffee and said, Bugs Bunny style, "whatchya up to, Doc?"

Long story short, dude got his lawyer on speed dial 'cause it falls under the laws of the Commonwealth ("yeah, we've been de factor owners of it since the folks you relinquished it to have been out of the picture for +25 years")

The flip side of the coin is how fast the government snapped up a German 10.5cm after another defunct AL Hall was purchased by folks who turned it into upscale condos - the difference there being that it was only the first turnover.

Make sense?

Donations executed pursuant to Acts of Congress form the vast majority of ordnance that left the government over the years. Ordnance retained by the military services and not divested via Congress is, yes, still government property. Most of that is modern (say post-1900) ordnance, not "Civil War" vintage.

 

[Story]

Donations executed pursuant to Acts of Congress form the vast majority of ordnance that left the government over the years. Ordnance retained by the military services and not divested via Congress is, yes, still government property. Most of that is modern (say post-1900) ordnance, not "Civil War" vintage.

Yup. I'm referencing a document that included Civil War and SpanAm ordnance divested prior to WWI (so, a primary source).

I followed that up with first hand experience comparing and contrasting legal realities (being the number of times a property has changed hands since the Government loaned out the ordnance).

Pretty cut - and -dried, really.

 

[6thMichCav]

This may be the video that you're referring to?

That's the one! Only way to be on the receiving end of article and not dig in…