The Sardinian connection

[rebelatsea]

THE SARDINIAN CONNECTION



Sardinian Artillerist General Cavalli proposed two ironclads in 1856 for the Sardinian Navy, which James Baxter mentions in "The Introduction of the Ironclad Warship". Professor Luraghi in " A History of the Confederate Navy" suggests them as a possible source for the design of CSS Virginia.

Here is Cavalli's 24 gun vessel from a 1988 article by Ferrucio Botti in "Rivista Maritima"

Note that the vessel is intended to be sea going, is only steam propelled, and has a ram of sorts.

Redrawn and scaled:

Dimensions: 170ft OA x 59ft EX x 21ft D, 3,009tons. (1,600tons BOM), 9 knots calculated

Guns : 2 - 8.9" Wahrendorf BLR, 22 – 6.1" Wahrendorf BLR

Armour: unknown but appears to be railroad iron. This does not extend all the way to the stern of the vessel.

The 36 gun variant:

Dimensions; 220ft OA x 59ft EX x 21ft D, 3,894tons, (2,400tons BOM), 11knots calculated

Guns: 2 -8.9" Wahrendorf BLR, 34 – 6.1" Wahrendorf BLR.

General Cavalli did not specify the ordnance, only that the guns were to be breech loaders. In 1843 he designed such a gun which wasn't particularly successful

Working in Sweden during the period 1845 - 46 he produced a breech loading rifle with an oval bore which was either not particularly successful, or outstanding, according to which source you read. By 1855 - 56 he was working with Swedish gun maker Baron Martin Von Wahrendorf, resulting in the Swedish Army adopting two calibres of breech loader; an 8.9" and a 6.1"

It is not too much a stretch of imagination to think that the ordnance of Cavalli's ironclads would be made up of these weapons.

So what has this got to do with Confederate Ironclads?

Professor Luraghi was wrong about CSS Virginia. Her actual plan and conversion shows a clear line of succession from John Luke Porter's 1846 design for a coast and harbour defence vessel.

General Cavalli's design WAS however the direct inspiration for a proposed ironclad at New Orleans in 1861.


The Diamond & Bisby Ironclad.


Proposed by two citizens of New Orleans, with plans drawn by naval Architect W.T. Smith, this vessel was approved by Commodore Hollins on 10th August 1861.

Described as: 220ft x 56ft, flat bottomed with elliptical sides, nearly the same fore and aft with a single screw 2.5ft below the waterline, it had an elliptical "roof" and mounted 6 heavy guns mounted so as to fire two ahead or four each side. The bow and stern were solid "for many feet", and was to be covered with railroad iron so as to resist any shot.

It could indeed be suggested that the Diamond & Bisby proposal was an enlarged Porter coast defence vessel, but his design did not have elliptical sides or roof, whereas the Cavalli plan does.

The similarities between the published description and General Cavalli's 36 gun vessel are so obvious that it cannot be coincidence, although it has not so far been possible to trace a positive link.

The difference in ordnance can be explained by the Diamond & Bisby ship having fewer but much heavier weapons.

The Diamond & Bisby particulars are :

Dimensions: 220ft OA x 56ft EX x 16ft D, 2,816 tons (1,700tons BOM), 12 knots calculated

Guns: 6 heavy pivot guns. Perhaps 9" or 11" smoothbores.

Armour: railroad rail, whether a single layer or two layers is unknown, nor what form: ie bar or T rail.

It should be noted that none of these vessels had provision for aft firing weapons.

So far as is known, a builder was not sourced and construction not begun,

I have not attempted a speculative layout of walkway /decking, hatches etc, although these would have undoubtedly been present in the plan submitted to Hollins.

Finally, (may be) I came across this illustration

No vessel meeting this description was ever, to my knowledge, proposed or laid down at Savannah. Why the large gunports ?

Did the artist, or his informant know of or see either the Cavalli plans, or the Diamond & Bisby proposal, and was this a reality or a figment od someone's imagination ?

This is my purely conjectural view of what may have been. The hull below water is shown in dotted lines and is as per the Diamond & Bisby proposal.

Note that I have changed the curvature of the casemate to conform to Cavalli's plan, as the apparent headroom between deck and roof forward in the illustration would give no room to work the guns.

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[Mark F. Jenkins]

Great stuff (as usual), John!

I don't attach too much importance to the newspaper illustrations of real or imagined ironclads... I think they tend towards the latter, conforming to what the (not naval-trained) illustrator thought an ironclad should look like!

 

[DaveBrt]

Great stuff (as usual), John!

I don't attach too much importance to the newspaper illustrations of real or imagined ironclads... I think they tend towards the latter, conforming to what the (not naval-trained) illustrator thought an ironclad should look like!

I think the illustrator was conflating the Virginia-type with the "Turtle" Manassas.

 

[Bruce Vail]

Great stuff (as usual), John!

I don't attach too much importance to the newspaper illustrations of real or imagined ironclads... I think they tend towards the latter, conforming to what the (not naval-trained) illustrator thought an ironclad should look like!

I'm wondering whether the newspaper illustration was part of some Confederate disinformation project designed to confuse the enemy and give foreign observers an exaggerated idea of Confederate military power?

 

[rebelatsea]

Great stuff (as usual), John!

I don't attach too much importance to the newspaper illustrations of real or imagined ironclads... I think they tend towards the latter, conforming to what the (not naval-trained) illustrator thought an ironclad should look like!

Gents. up to a point I do agree, hence my "maybe".We have made mistakes in the past by disregarding prints and woodcuts as being figments of the often overheated (with pockets full of dollars at times I suspect) imaginations of scribblers. The Barataria, and J. A. Cotten being a case in point. I thought that particular print was too co - incidental to ignore completely.

 

[WJC]

THE SARDINIAN CONNECTION
Sardinian Artillerist General Cavalli proposed two ironclads in 1856 for the Sardinian Navy, which James Baxter mentions in "The Introduction of the Ironclad Warship". Professor Luraghi in " A History of the Confederate Navy" suggests them as a possible source for the design of CSS Virginia.
Here is Cavalli's 24 gun vessel from a 1988 article by Ferrucio Botti in "Rivista Maritima"

Thanks for posting this interesting information.
Many of us were taught that ironclads were invented in America during the rebellion. Though the first combat experience of ironclads was in the rebellion, naval architects in many countries were developing ironclad designs before the war. From this and other information, it seems clear that American ironclads were more likely developed based on at least a knowledge of earlier designs.

 

[rebelatsea]

Thanks for posting this interesting information.
Many of us were taught that ironclads were invented in America during the rebellion. Though the first combat experience of ironclads was in the rebellion, naval architects in many countries were developing ironclad designs before the war. From this and other information, it seems clear that American ironclads were more likely developed based on at least a knowledge of earlier designs.

In this age of military and other secrecy, it's difficult to understand that up to the 1860s and for a time later, information was freely available, and publications like "The Engineer" were full of inventions and ideas. While there had always been spies they looked at what and where and reported on political developments. The Civil War really begins the trend towards military secrecy in terms of development and invention.

 

[WJC]

In this age of military and other secrecy, it's difficult to understand that up to the 1860s and for a time later, information was freely available, and publications like "The Engineer" were full of inventions and ideas. While there had always been spies they looked at what and where and reported on political developments. The Civil War really begins the trend towards military secrecy in terms of development and invention.

Thanks for your response.
I suppose the rapid changes in ships and other weaponry in the second half of the 19th century made military planners more eager to maintain secrecy while spying on others.
An interesting era and subject, one I've only scratched the surface in my limited study. I'll have to do more....

 

[CT Ertz]

Interesting.... I love your work !

 

[USS ALASKA]

@rebelatsea or anyone else who knows...

Read this thread a couple months ago but something caught my eye on the re-read. The proposed Wahrendorf BLR armament...never heard of this design / manufacture before. Found some mentions on Wiki...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_von_Wahrendorff

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breech-loading_weapon

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifled_breech_loader

...but not much else.

Did they last long or were they superseded by other designs / manufactures?

Thanks for the help,
USS ALASKA

 

[rebelatsea]

Cavalli's first attempts were not very good, possibly because the technology wasn't up to it, but when he went to Sweden and partnered Baron Wahrendoorff the result were some outstanding weapons. Sweden however did not share it's development widely unlike Messrs Krupp, who supplied many nations armies and navies, and have consequently overshadowed Wahrendorff . I think the chief reason being Sweden's limited industrial base.