The Dream

[Leah's Choice]

I'm not sure where this belongs, but I guess here is as good as anyplace else.

I've always been curious about the dream Lincoln had shortly before he was assassinated. He saw in that dream a coffin set up in the White House and felt upset, calling out something like "Who has died in the White House?"

Did he ever report any similar dreams? I know Lincoln is said to have suffered from depression, and as I recall he sometimes talked about death, but it seems strange that he would dream something like this just a few days before he died.

I don't know if there is actually such a thing as precognition, but the story of Lincoln's death dream does seem to point to it.

I'm wondering what others here think of this.

 

[claycad]

When it comes to stories such as these, I find it more likely that they are made up. Looking for sources of this information, the only one I could find was when Ward Hill Lamen, Lincoln's friend and bodyguard, recollected the dream in a biography he wrote about Lincoln. The book was published in 1895, several years after Mary Todd Lincoln died and two years after Lamen died, so Lincoln's wife who was also supposedly present during Lincoln's telling of the dream couldn't have opposed the claim if not true. Something like that could have been made up by Lamen to make the book slightly more interesting.

Even if true, before it could be chalked up to precognition you would have to determine if Lincoln had any other dreams about dying long prior to his own death. Perhaps he had many of these dreams that he didn't discuss or that nobody took note of because he didn't actually die shortly after. I imagine that being assassinated is a fear of every president and many have had dreams about it. It was just the misfortune of Lincoln that such a dream coincidentally came true.

I think of such dreams like this. I often dream of seeing friends or loved ones that I have not seen in years. But after having such dreams I seldom coincidentally run into them. But on a rare occasion that I do run into them, my first thought is "I must be psychic, I just dreamed I would see this person last week" But then I remind myself how often I dream of seeing people and then don't seem them and chop it up that me seeing this person after dreaming about them as only a coincidence.

Of course that only applies if Lincoln actually had the dream and it wasn't a story simply made up by Lamen.

 

[ole]

There are some stories, however dubious, that are so deeply imbedded that there is likely no way to pry them all out.

Ole

 

[Leah's Choice]

When it comes to stories such as these, I find it more likely that they are made up. Looking for sources of this information, the only one I could find was when Ward Hill Lamen, Lincoln's friend and bodyguard, recollected the dream in a biography he wrote about Lincoln. The book was published in 1895, several years after Mary Todd Lincoln died and two years after Lamen died, so Lincoln's wife who was also supposedly present during Lincoln's telling of the dream couldn't have opposed the claim if not true. Something like that could have been made up by Lamen to make the book slightly more interesting.

Even if true, before it could be chalked up to precognition you would have to determine if Lincoln had any other dreams about dying long prior to his own death. Perhaps he had many of these dreams that he didn't discuss or that nobody took note of because he didn't actually die shortly after. I imagine that being assassinated is a fear of every president and many have had dreams about it. It was just the misfortune of Lincoln that such a dream coincidentally came true.

I think of such dreams like this. I often dream of seeing friends or loved ones that I have not seen in years. But after having such dreams I seldom coincidentally run into them. But on a rare occasion that I do run into them, my first thought is "I must be psychic, I just dreamed I would see this person last week" But then I remind myself how often I dream of seeing people and then don't seem them and chop it up that me seeing this person after dreaming about them as only a coincidence.

Of course that only applies if Lincoln actually had the dream and it wasn't a story simply made up by Lamen.

As Ole suggests, this story is pretty firmly embedded in Lincoln lore. I've never read Lamen's book (not sure I've even heard of him), but I've read the dream story in a number of books written by contemporary writers/historians, and they seem to accept it.

Either way, I would question the statement that publishing Lamen's book was delayed until after Mary's death so she could not oppose that statement. Mary Lincoln's psychological health was pretty precarious, especially after the death of their little boy, and if the president had any thoughts in mind that his dream may have been about his own death, I think it's unlikely that he would have mentioned it to his wife. That's just an opinion, of course.

If the publication date of Lamen's book had anything to do with Mary at all (and I doubt that) I think it would more probably have been to spare her the thought that Lincoln had a psychic warning which he didn't take seriously. Mary, after all, was quite rooted in psychic/spiritualistic dogma.

Another incident, and I don't recall how long before the assassination it was that this happened, but I think it was not too awfully long before, the story has been told about a visit Abraham and Mary made to a cemetery, a quiet, restful sort of place. And Lincoln remarked to his wife that he was older than she, and he expected he would die before she did, and he asked her to have his remains buried in "a place like this." Perhaps that is not all that unusual, considering where they were when he said that, but it does suggest that he had confronted his own mortality to some extent.

 

[M E Wolf]

Dear List Members;

I would think if any were to debunk the story about President Lincoln's vision/dreams of death and its details; there would have been President Lincoln's son; who was Captain and an aide to General U. S. Grant.

He was in Washington after the Appomattox surrender, returning to the White House.

If memory serves me correctly, Robert Todd Lincoln (born 1843) would have been mature enough to recall the events; and I believe if memory serves me correctly had dinner with his mother and father before they went to Ford's Theater and Robert Todd, went to the National Theater (1200 blk of E. Street, NW and is in the same footprint as the original).

I would think that Lincoln's personal secretaries would have mentioned something if it wasn't true, true or throwing doubts --concerning Lincoln's dreams.

Yet, there had been cases were people 'feel' or 'sense' they will die before a battle; as 2nd Lt. Hitchcock had before marching to First Bull Run with the US Marine Corps Battalion; leaving his personal possessions with a friend at the Marine Barracks and mentioned to his Captain friend and other officers he felt he wouldn't survive. He didn't. He was killed by a CSA shell.

But, ever since Lincoln was elected and before he swore the oath of President; there were assassination threats. With all that and through the war; I am sure that had to weigh on him and subjected to dreams.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

 

[ole]

Believe that was Lamon.

Whatever, it is a nice story with some possible foundation. But, as we generally insist on fact, it doesn't seem that there is any incontrovertible facts in suport of stict fact.

But it remains a good story.

Ole