The Citadel vs. VMI

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Why does the role of the cadets from the Virginia Military Academy (VMI) in the Civil War have such a prominent place in Civil War memory while the role of the South Carolina Military Academy (now The Citadel) is largely forgotten? The SC cadets probably saw more combat than their VA counterparts.

Is it all because of that one dramatic charge?

Or is it because the war historiography has been Virginia-centric while the entire Charleston Campaign is largely forgotten? Despite the length of the campaign, the forces engaged and battles fought were much smaller than those in Virginia or Tennessee/Georgia, and the leaders largely devoid of glory. Glory (the film) and the CSS Hunley were part of the campaign, but seem to be remembered in isolation.

 

[scooter748driver]

I'm not sure but I think some of the VMI attention is due to the fact that Jackson was a professor there, and his popularity brings all (or many) things "VMI" into sharper focus. Just my $.02.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Thought the extra attention and prominence given to the VMI cadets over their Citadel counterparts is due to a combination of reasons, like the ones mentioned in the OP.

In my view, the elevation of interest is a result of the joint effects of: historiography being Virginia-centric (understandably); focus on dominant VMI personalities (particularly Jackson); and spotlighting on a famous desperate charge made late in the war by VMI cadets at New Market.

 

[Snowbound]

VMI had a tremendous presence in the Conferderate Officer Corps as compared to The Citadel. My buddy, a VMI grad, was envious that I had ancestors who fought with the 22nd Va at New Market. He was also not happy about normally losing our annual Silver Shako (footbal) lunch bet.

 

[rpkennedy]

VMI had a tremendous presence in the Conferderate Officer Corps as compared to The Citadel. My buddy, a VMI grad, was envious that I had ancestors who fought with the 22nd Va at New Market. He was also not happy about normally losing our annual Silver Shako (footbal) lunch bet.

About 1800 versus 209. And while the Citadel cadets performed good service during the war, it's hard to compete against the romance of a desperate charge by young teenagers at New Market.

Ryan

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

VMI had a tremendous presence in the Conferderate Officer Corps as compared to The Citadel.

About 1800 versus 209.

VMI is only 3 years older than the Citadel. Why such a large difference? Just the population of Virginia?

 

[rpkennedy]

VMI is only 3 years older than the Citadel. Why such a large difference? Just the population of Virginia?

VMI's classes do seem to have been significantly larger than the Citadel's. I would guess that the populations of the two states (and their neighbors) played a pretty significant role in the respective class sizes. Although, looking at the officers killed during the war who had graduated from the Citadel, they included some men that many of us would recognize.

Brigadier General Micah Jenkins (class of '54)
Colonel Charles C. Tew, 2nd NC (class of '46)
Lt. Colonel A.J. Lythgoe, 1st SC (class of '47)
Lt. Colonel Franklin Gaillard, 2nd SC (class of '49)
Col. Edward J. Walker, 3rd GA (class of '51)
Col. R.A. Palmer, 2nd MS (class of '52)
Col. D.G. Fleming, 22nd SC (class of '54)
Col. J.D. Nance, 3rd SC (class of '56)
Col. William D. Rutherford, 3rd SC (class of '57)

An impressive list.

Ryan

 

[War Horse]

Why does the role of the cadets from the Virginia Military Academy (VMI) in the Civil War have such a prominent place in Civil War memory while the role of the South Carolina Military Academy (now The Citadel) is largely forgotten? The SC cadets probably saw more combat than their VA counterparts.

Is it all because of that one dramatic charge?

Or is it because the war historiography has been Virginia-centric while the entire Charleston Campaign is largely forgotten? Despite the length of the campaign, the forces engaged and battles fought were much smaller than those in Virginia or Tennessee/Georgia, and the leaders largely devoid of glory. Glory (the film) and the CSS Hunley were part of the campaign, but seem to be remembered in isolation.

I think the answer to this question can be answered in one word. "Jackson". Yep, Thomas (Stonewall) Jackson being a professor there has placed a spotlight on VMI. In all honesty I'd say graduates of both VMI and The Citadel play second fiddle to West Point. Then again a disproportionate number of Generals and Officers graduated from West Point as opposed to the other two schools.

 

[War Horse]

About 1800 versus 209. And while the Citadel cadets performed good service during the war, it's hard to compete against the romance of a desperate charge by young teenagers at New Market.

Ryan

I had forgotten about the New Market Charge. Good point.

 

[tony_gunter]

Why does the role of the cadets from the Virginia Military Academy (VMI) in the Civil War have such a prominent place in Civil War memory while the role of the South Carolina Military Academy (now The Citadel) is largely forgotten? The SC cadets probably saw more combat than their VA counterparts.

Is it all because of that one dramatic charge?

Or is it because the war historiography has been Virginia-centric while the entire Charleston Campaign is largely forgotten? Despite the length of the campaign, the forces engaged and battles fought were much smaller than those in Virginia or Tennessee/Georgia, and the leaders largely devoid of glory. Glory (the film) and the CSS Hunley were part of the campaign, but seem to be remembered in isolation.

Which ones did John Wayne turn over his knee in Mississippi?

 

[scooter748driver]

Which ones did John Wayne turn over his knee in Mississippi?

That was a cadet from the fictional Jefferson Military Academy in The Horse Soldiers (John Wayne just ordered the spanking, he didn't administer it)

 

[EHParks]

Why does the role of the cadets from the Virginia Military Academy (VMI) in the Civil War have such a prominent place in Civil War memory while the role of the South Carolina Military Academy (now The Citadel) is largely forgotten? The SC cadets probably saw more combat than their VA counterparts.

Is it all because of that one dramatic charge?

Or is it because the war historiography has been Virginia-centric while the entire Charleston Campaign is largely forgotten? Despite the length of the campaign, the forces engaged and battles fought were much smaller than those in Virginia or Tennessee/Georgia, and the leaders largely devoid of glory. Glory (the film) and the CSS Hunley were part of the campaign, but seem to be remembered in isolation.

Pardon my ignorance, but was there a similar Northern school other than the USMA that all served together? A friend of mine had an older brother go to the Military Academy while he attended the Citadel. Both retired as Ltc. (their father was a Major General, as was their Mother's father, all Academy, Institute or Citadel grads back several generations). I wonder what they would think today?

 

[EHParks]

Which ones did John Wayne turn over his knee in Mississippi?

Rumor is all of them. On set.

 

[Jamieva]

Pardon my ignorance, but was there a similar Northern school other than the USMA that all served together? A friend of mine had an older brother go to the Military Academy while he attended the Citadel. Both retired as Ltc. (their father was a Major General, as was their Mother's father, all Academy, Institute or Citadel grads back several generations). I wonder what they would think today?

I believe West Point was it for the north. The state sponsored military academies was a southern thing.

 

[rpkennedy]

I believe West Point was it for the north. The state sponsored military academies was a southern thing.

There were a handful in the North (there was one in New Hampshire but its name escapes me at the moment) but it was definitely more common in the South. Just about every Southerm state had one and a few had several.

Ryan

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

was there a similar Northern school other than the USMA that all served together?

There were a handful in the North (there was one in New Hampshire but its name escapes me at the moment)

Norwich, founded in 1819 in Northfield, Vermont and still active today. I only know it exists because a coworker graduated there. Despite being the oldest private military college in the country and being used as the model for some of the Southern academies it's so obscure that, as far as I can tell there's never been a CWT discussing its impact on the war.

Notable graduates are Admiral George Dewey and Major Generals Grenville Dodge and Thomas Ransom. William "Bull" Nelson attended, but left without graduating to become a Navy Midshipman.

 

[tomlamarcooughlin]

One other possible factor.

I don't remember that the Union burned down the Citadel but didn't they burn down VMI?

 

[rpkennedy]

Norwich, founded in 1819 in Northfield, Vermont and still active today. I only know it exists because a coworker graduated there. Despite being the oldest private military college in the country and being used as the model for some of the Southern academies it's so obscure that, as far as I can tell there's never been a CWT discussing its impact on the war.

Notable graduates are Admiral George Dewey and Major Generals Grenville Dodge and Thomas Ransom. William "Bull" Nelson attended, but left without graduating to become a Navy Midshipman.

That's the one I was thinking of. Vermont, not New Hampshire.

Ryan

 

[Jamieva]

How could I forget Norwich my niece went there.

 

[FarawayFriend]

Paging @John Winn , as he might be interested in this - he has an ancestor who fought in the Battle of New Market.