Sword

[White Flint Bill]

I mentioned this sword a while back. It was in my grandmother's house. Her grandfather and his brother were in the Confederate artillery.

What do you experts think? Is this a Confederate sword?

 

[captaindrew]

Looks like a pre war US field artillery sword but I'm not a blade expert. I'm sure one of the guys will be along to say for sure.

 

[White Flint Bill]

Let me try that again, with the photos embedded as I intended:

 

[mofederal]

1832 Model US Artillery Short Sword. It was based on the French Foot Artillery Short Sword of 1816, inspired by the Roman gladius. I am no expert, others can chime in, and I can't tell you more about it, and models and years of issue.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Below is a photo of a Model 1832 Artillery Short sword.
Not even close in matching the gentleman's photo, which happens to be a Confederate, W. J. McElroy, Macon, Ga, CS Heavy Artillery Short Sword, and know in Confederate collector circles for years.
The McElroy is on the bottom, so as not to confuse anyone. Absolutely correct to have been used by your relative in CS service. A very nice find and excellent family piece. Congrats.

 

[White Flint Bill]

Below is a photo of a Model 1832 Artillery Short sword.
Not even close in matching the gentleman's photo, which happens to be a Confederate, W. J. McElroy, Macon, Ga, CS Heavy Artillery Short Sword, and know in Confederate collector circles for years.
The McElroy is on the bottom, so as not to confuse anyone. Absolutely correct to have been used by your relative in CS service. A very nice find and excellent family piece. Congrats.View attachment 175199 View attachment 175200

Many thanks sir!

 

[Lanyard Puller]

It's my Tidewater pleasure. . I only have a Colt and a lanyard, but's that's a plenty !!!
{Graham's Battery, Petersburg Artillery}

 

[Package4]

Many thanks sir!

Wow, Congratulations, Lanyard Puller knows his stuff so the description is accurate and on the mark!

 

[White Flint Bill]

For any interested, this sword likely belonged to Sgt. George William Keesee of the Danville (Va) Artillery, killed at Sharpsburg. If not, then to his brother Cpl. Peyton Clay Keesee, who was wounded that morning alongside his brother. Peyton was left behind to tend to his dying brother, was captured and later exchanged. When his term was up he transferred to Co. C of the 5th Virginia Cavalry. Fortunately for me, Peyton survived the war.

Before I rescued this sword from her, my mother was using it as a wood stove poker.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

just FYI... I searched both Keesee's in www.fold3.com {gotta' pay to use it} and both have at least a dozen CS documents.
They served in a famous unit, Schumaker's Battery, holding the left of the line at Gettysburg using some Whitworth artillery pieces {very highly valued}....and in every major engagement of the Army of Northern Va. Send me a PM {conversation} should you wish to gather these relevant documents.

 

[UCVRelics]

Here are his fold3 records. The only problem I have with the sword is McElroy did not make a curvy blade they were all straight.

 

[Package4]

Here are his fold3 records. The only problem I have with the sword is McElroy did not make a curvy blade they were all straight.
View attachment 175303

Looking at the uneven wave to the blade, I have to imagine that it was used and left in the fireplace one too many times. A very historic and Southern fireplace poker!

The red brass screams the "rebel yell"

 

[Mark F. Jenkins]

These artillery swords were also initially issued to the Western Gunboat Flotilla in lieu of "proper" naval cutlasses. They were often referred to at the time as 'Roman swords,' indicating that somebody knew exactly where the design came from...

 

[JOHN42768]

Congrats on your sword

 

[Package4]

These artillery swords were also initially issued to the Western Gunboat Flotilla in lieu of "proper" naval cutlasses. They were often referred to at the time as 'Roman swords,' indicating that somebody knew exactly where the design came from...

Yes, they were fairly universally referred to as that and occasionally "gladius", which was the actual Roman name for the sword of the Roman foot soldier.

 

[Schwallanscher]

Yes, they were fairly universally referred to as that and occasionally "gladius", which was the actual Roman name for the sword of the Roman foot soldier.

compared to real gladii wfb's looks like a dagger (if i get that ruler correctly)

@White Flint Bill, how long is your dagger/poker?

 

[MaryDee]

What an exciting find, and a wonderful family heirloom!

 

[Package4]

compared to real gladii wfb's looks like a dagger (if i get that ruler correctly)

@White Flint Bill, how long is your dagger/poker?

The true Roman Gladius was 1-1/2 to 2 foot long and was the short stabbing or thrusting weapon of the Roman foot soldier. The Spatha was a longer weapon preferred by soldiers on horse or cavalry. The gladius served Rome for over 700 years:

Expired Image Removed



Artifact: Roman Gladius
Location Discovered: Jerusalem
Date: 1st Century A.D.
Material: Iron
Blade Length: 15 inches
Total Length Prior to Deterioration: c. 22 inches


https://lubiblicalmuseum.weebly.com/gladius.html

 

[Schwallanscher]

The true Roman Gladius was 1-1/2 to 2 foot long and was the short stabbing or thrusting weapon of the Roman foot soldier. The Spatha was a longer weapon preferred by soldiers on horse or cavalry. The gladius served Rome for over 700 years:

Expired Image Removed



Artifact: Roman Gladius
Location Discovered: Jerusalem
Date: 1st Century A.D.
Material: Iron
Blade Length: 15 inches
Total Length Prior to Deterioration: c. 22 inches


https://lubiblicalmuseum.weebly.com/gladius.html

yep - a blade just short of 20 inches (that's not counting the handle). if you look at that ruler (i guess it shows inches) ...

 

[byron ed]

1832 Model US Artillery Short Sword. It was based on the French Foot Artillery Short Sword of 1816, inspired by the Roman gladius. I am no expert, others can chime in, and I can't tell you more about it, and models and years of issue.

What Lanyard Puller said. It's a Confederate forge copy of an 1832 pattern Artillery short sword, to note there's no Federal Eagle stamped into the knob nor are there blood grooves on the blade as on the Federal Ames contract item. The comparatively primitive quality and irregular outline of the blade is another clue.

It's been insisted by armchair historians that the Federally-issued swords were not of much value to CW Federal field Artillery and so rarely used (except for heavy artillery in garrision or substitute Navy cutlass). Yet, it's been countered that if such swords were so useless, why would the Confederates have used up their sparse resources to copy and issue that very pattern of sword to their field Artillery? The OP example is a case in point. Perhaps these swords were more common in field Artillery service North and South than the armchair historians claim they were.