Union_Buff
Major
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2009
- Location
- New Zealand
I've been researching ACW sutlers and I was just wondering if they would overcharge soldiers for simple things, such as spare clothing, food, etc, etc, as to make as much money as they could?
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Sutlers
- Thread starter Union_Buff
- Start date
Dear Union Buff;
First, one has to establish the going 'rate' of the items sold. And, times as they passed in the ACW affected prices due to the inability of them.
The South suffered most; as they often were cut off of their supplies and citizens suffered as much--if not more, than the soldiers.
Each state and each city had their own bank and or currency--there was no such thing as one currency for one Nation.
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME IV [S# 4] CHAPTER XI.
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating Specially To Operations In Texas, New Mexico, And Arizona From June 11, 1861-February 1, 1862.
CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE, Etc.
HDQRS. SECOND REG'T TEXAS MOUNTED RIFLES,
Mesilla, December 14, 1861.
Hon. J.P. BENJAMIN, Secretary of War, C. S. A.:
SIR: I have the honor to forward you a statement of the disposition of the "Federal drafts" captured at the surrender of Fort Fillmore, amounting in all to $9,500, $5,500 of which were on the assistant treasurer of New York. The other $4,000 were drawn on the assistant treasurer at Saint Louis, Mo. I sent the drafts by Mr. William McGrorty to New York for collection, which resulted as follows: $4,500 were paid by the assistant treasurer, New York; the other $1,000 draft was not paid, Mr. Cisco, the assistant treasurer, stating that the drawer had no funds in the Treasury to his credit. The $4,000 draft on assistant treasurer Saint Louis were left by Mr. McGrorty in New York for collection. Saint Louis being under martial law, Mr. McGrorty felt it unsafe to go there in person. I. have since received no information if the drafts have been collected or not. I have paid out of the above amount the following sums, viz: $500 was claimed by Lieutenant Plummer, acting assistant quartermaster, U.S. Army, as private funds, which I refunded him. Four hundred and eleven dollars paid Samuel J. Jones, sutler at Fort Fillmore, for corn delivered the quartermaster, U.S. Army, and not paid for by the United States. The corn was in store at Fort Fillmore when the post was abandoned, and Lieutenant Plum-mer, acting assistant quartermaster, certified to Mr. Jones' claim after the capture of the Federal troops at San Augustine Springs. Three hundred dollars I have paid Mr. McGrorty for part of his expenses to New York in prosecuting the collection of said drafts. The balance $3,289. I send you herewith the quartermaster's receipts for that amount. The drafts on Saint Louis, left in New York for collection, I will duly account for when informed of the payment thereof.
I have the honor to be, most respectfully, your obedient servant,
JOHN R. BAYLOR. Colonel,
Comdg. Second Reg't Texas Mounted Rifles, C. S. Army.
---------------------------------------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME VI, Chapter XV [S# 6]
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating To Operations On The Coasts Of South Carolina, Georgia, And Middle And East Florida From August 21, 1861, To April 11, 1862.
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ETC.--#1
GENERAL ORDERS No. 15.
HEADQUARTERS EXPEDITIONARY CORPS,
Annapolis,Md., October 17, 1861.
The embarkation of the troops of this division will commence immediately and in accordance with the following order and assignment:
I. First Brigade, Brigadier-General Viele, commanding.
[excerpt]
X. Brigade commanders will issue and enforce such orders as will effectually prevent any person not belonging to the military organization from embarking on their transports, and will prevent any stores from being shipped but the necessary provisions and supplies, including the authorized allowance of camp and garrison equipage.
XI. No sutler but the one appointed by the Secretary of War will be recognized in any manner or received on board the transports belonging to this command.
By order of General T. W. Sherman:
L. H. PELOUZE,
Captain, Fifteenth Infantry, Actg. Asst. Adjt. General.
-----
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME VI, Chapter XVI [S# 6]
DECEMBER 3, 1861.--Occupation of Ship Island, Miss.
[excerpt]
On the 26th ultimo I forwarded the bark Kingfisher, of Boston, for the same destination from Boston, with extra clothing for three regiments and other quartermaster's stores, including parts of a floating bridge half a mile long, lumber, &c., for building wharf, &c., carriages for field battery, subsistence and sutler stores, and 130 horses and forage, details of which bill of lading are in Schedule A.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE IS A SUTLER TO WHOM GOT NOTICED FOR HIS KINDNESS--
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XIV [S# 20]
OCTOBER 22-23, 1862.--Skirmish at Coosawhatchie and engagements at the Caston and Frampton Plantations, near Pocotaligo, S.C.
No. 4.--Reports of Brig. Gen. John M. Brannan, U. S. Army, commanding expedition.
HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE SOUTH,
Hilton Head, Port Royal, S.C., November 6, 1862.
GENERAL: I herewith transmit the reports of Brig. Gen. A. H. Terry and Col. T. H. Good, Forty-seventh Regiment Pennsylvania Volunteers, who commanded brigades during the late expedition, under my command, to Pocotaligo, S.C., and would beg respectfully to bring them to the favorable notice of the department for their gallant and meritorious conduct during the engagement of October 22; as also Col. J. L. Chatfield, Sixth Regiment Connecticut Volunteers, who commanded the First Brigade until severely wounded, in the early part of the engagement, while gallantly leading it to the charge. Great praise is also due to General Terry for his care and unremitting exertions during the night of the 22d in superintending the removal of the wounded to the transports.
[excerpt]
I would also mention that I am much indebted to Mr. Cooley, sutler of the Sixth Connecticut Volunteers, for his care and attention to the wounded and his exertions in carrying them off the field and placing them on the transports.
I inclose a complete and accurate list(*) of the killed, wounded, and missing during the entire expedition, giving their names, rank, companies, and regiments, with a description of the nature of their wounds.
I have the honor to be, general, most respectfully, your obedient servant,
J. M. BRANNAN,
Brigadier-General, Commanding Department.
Brig. Gen. LORENZO THOMAS,
Adjutant-General U.S. Army.
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XIV [S# 20]
OCTOBER 22-23, 1862.--Skirmish at Coosawhatchie and engagements at the Caston and Frampton Plantations, near Pocotaligo, S.C.
No. 12.--Report of Brig. Gen. Alfred H. Terry, U. S. Army, commanding Second Brigade, Tenth Army Corps.
[excerpt]
My thanks are due also to a civilian, Mr. S. A. Cooley, the sutler of the Sixth Connecticut Regiment, who, under no obligations of duty, but prompted solely by motives of humanity, labored most energetically and effectively throughout the night, superintending the boats used in carrying the wounded on board the transports.
-----------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXIV/2 [S# 37]
MAY 17, 1863.--Engagement at Big Black River Bridge, Miss.
No. 4.--Report of Brig. Gen. Michael K. Lawler, U.S. Army, commanding Second Brigade, Fourteenth Division, including operations May 2-22.
HDGRS. 2D BRIGADE, 14TH DIVISION, 13TH ARMY CORPS,
Camp, in rear of Vicksburg, Miss., May 26, 1863.
SIR: I have the honor to submit the following field report of the operations of my brigade from the date I assumed command of it at Port Gibson, Miss., May 2, 1863, to the present time. In it I have included the distances marched, the time in which the march was made, the battles fought, the number killed and wounded, the number of prisoners taken, the number of cannon, small-arms, and other stores, with kind and quantity of all property. For a report of the operations of the brigade from the date of its departure from Milliken's Bend to May 2, 1863, you are respectfully referred to the report of Col. C. L. Harris, Eleventh Wisconsin Volunteers, accompanying this, (*) and to the able report of Col. William M. Stone, Twenty-second Iowa Volunteers, which is already in your possession.
[excerpt]
Special and honorable mention should be made of A.M. Lyon, esq., sutler of the Twenty-third Iowa, a brave old man, who took a gun at the commencement of the battle, went into the ranks, fought nobly, and fell, mortally wounded.
==================================
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXV/2 [S# 40]
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating To Operations In Northern Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, And Pennsylvania, From January 26 To June 2, 1863.
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ETC.--#20
IV. The commanding officer of every regiment and detachment to which a sutler is legally appointed will be held responsible that his duties, as defined in the, Thirtieth Article of War, the Revised Army Regulations, and the act to provide for the appointment of sutlers, &c., published in General Orders, No. 27, War Department, 1862, are properly performed.
First, one has to establish the going 'rate' of the items sold. And, times as they passed in the ACW affected prices due to the inability of them.
The South suffered most; as they often were cut off of their supplies and citizens suffered as much--if not more, than the soldiers.
Each state and each city had their own bank and or currency--there was no such thing as one currency for one Nation.
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME IV [S# 4] CHAPTER XI.
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating Specially To Operations In Texas, New Mexico, And Arizona From June 11, 1861-February 1, 1862.
CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE, Etc.
HDQRS. SECOND REG'T TEXAS MOUNTED RIFLES,
Mesilla, December 14, 1861.
Hon. J.P. BENJAMIN, Secretary of War, C. S. A.:
SIR: I have the honor to forward you a statement of the disposition of the "Federal drafts" captured at the surrender of Fort Fillmore, amounting in all to $9,500, $5,500 of which were on the assistant treasurer of New York. The other $4,000 were drawn on the assistant treasurer at Saint Louis, Mo. I sent the drafts by Mr. William McGrorty to New York for collection, which resulted as follows: $4,500 were paid by the assistant treasurer, New York; the other $1,000 draft was not paid, Mr. Cisco, the assistant treasurer, stating that the drawer had no funds in the Treasury to his credit. The $4,000 draft on assistant treasurer Saint Louis were left by Mr. McGrorty in New York for collection. Saint Louis being under martial law, Mr. McGrorty felt it unsafe to go there in person. I. have since received no information if the drafts have been collected or not. I have paid out of the above amount the following sums, viz: $500 was claimed by Lieutenant Plummer, acting assistant quartermaster, U.S. Army, as private funds, which I refunded him. Four hundred and eleven dollars paid Samuel J. Jones, sutler at Fort Fillmore, for corn delivered the quartermaster, U.S. Army, and not paid for by the United States. The corn was in store at Fort Fillmore when the post was abandoned, and Lieutenant Plum-mer, acting assistant quartermaster, certified to Mr. Jones' claim after the capture of the Federal troops at San Augustine Springs. Three hundred dollars I have paid Mr. McGrorty for part of his expenses to New York in prosecuting the collection of said drafts. The balance $3,289. I send you herewith the quartermaster's receipts for that amount. The drafts on Saint Louis, left in New York for collection, I will duly account for when informed of the payment thereof.
I have the honor to be, most respectfully, your obedient servant,
JOHN R. BAYLOR. Colonel,
Comdg. Second Reg't Texas Mounted Rifles, C. S. Army.
---------------------------------------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME VI, Chapter XV [S# 6]
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating To Operations On The Coasts Of South Carolina, Georgia, And Middle And East Florida From August 21, 1861, To April 11, 1862.
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ETC.--#1
GENERAL ORDERS No. 15.
HEADQUARTERS EXPEDITIONARY CORPS,
Annapolis,Md., October 17, 1861.
The embarkation of the troops of this division will commence immediately and in accordance with the following order and assignment:
I. First Brigade, Brigadier-General Viele, commanding.
[excerpt]
X. Brigade commanders will issue and enforce such orders as will effectually prevent any person not belonging to the military organization from embarking on their transports, and will prevent any stores from being shipped but the necessary provisions and supplies, including the authorized allowance of camp and garrison equipage.
XI. No sutler but the one appointed by the Secretary of War will be recognized in any manner or received on board the transports belonging to this command.
By order of General T. W. Sherman:
L. H. PELOUZE,
Captain, Fifteenth Infantry, Actg. Asst. Adjt. General.
-----
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME VI, Chapter XVI [S# 6]
DECEMBER 3, 1861.--Occupation of Ship Island, Miss.
[excerpt]
On the 26th ultimo I forwarded the bark Kingfisher, of Boston, for the same destination from Boston, with extra clothing for three regiments and other quartermaster's stores, including parts of a floating bridge half a mile long, lumber, &c., for building wharf, &c., carriages for field battery, subsistence and sutler stores, and 130 horses and forage, details of which bill of lading are in Schedule A.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE IS A SUTLER TO WHOM GOT NOTICED FOR HIS KINDNESS--
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XIV [S# 20]
OCTOBER 22-23, 1862.--Skirmish at Coosawhatchie and engagements at the Caston and Frampton Plantations, near Pocotaligo, S.C.
No. 4.--Reports of Brig. Gen. John M. Brannan, U. S. Army, commanding expedition.
HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF THE SOUTH,
Hilton Head, Port Royal, S.C., November 6, 1862.
GENERAL: I herewith transmit the reports of Brig. Gen. A. H. Terry and Col. T. H. Good, Forty-seventh Regiment Pennsylvania Volunteers, who commanded brigades during the late expedition, under my command, to Pocotaligo, S.C., and would beg respectfully to bring them to the favorable notice of the department for their gallant and meritorious conduct during the engagement of October 22; as also Col. J. L. Chatfield, Sixth Regiment Connecticut Volunteers, who commanded the First Brigade until severely wounded, in the early part of the engagement, while gallantly leading it to the charge. Great praise is also due to General Terry for his care and unremitting exertions during the night of the 22d in superintending the removal of the wounded to the transports.
[excerpt]
I would also mention that I am much indebted to Mr. Cooley, sutler of the Sixth Connecticut Volunteers, for his care and attention to the wounded and his exertions in carrying them off the field and placing them on the transports.
I inclose a complete and accurate list(*) of the killed, wounded, and missing during the entire expedition, giving their names, rank, companies, and regiments, with a description of the nature of their wounds.
I have the honor to be, general, most respectfully, your obedient servant,
J. M. BRANNAN,
Brigadier-General, Commanding Department.
Brig. Gen. LORENZO THOMAS,
Adjutant-General U.S. Army.
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XIV [S# 20]
OCTOBER 22-23, 1862.--Skirmish at Coosawhatchie and engagements at the Caston and Frampton Plantations, near Pocotaligo, S.C.
No. 12.--Report of Brig. Gen. Alfred H. Terry, U. S. Army, commanding Second Brigade, Tenth Army Corps.
[excerpt]
My thanks are due also to a civilian, Mr. S. A. Cooley, the sutler of the Sixth Connecticut Regiment, who, under no obligations of duty, but prompted solely by motives of humanity, labored most energetically and effectively throughout the night, superintending the boats used in carrying the wounded on board the transports.
-----------------------
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXIV/2 [S# 37]
MAY 17, 1863.--Engagement at Big Black River Bridge, Miss.
No. 4.--Report of Brig. Gen. Michael K. Lawler, U.S. Army, commanding Second Brigade, Fourteenth Division, including operations May 2-22.
HDGRS. 2D BRIGADE, 14TH DIVISION, 13TH ARMY CORPS,
Camp, in rear of Vicksburg, Miss., May 26, 1863.
SIR: I have the honor to submit the following field report of the operations of my brigade from the date I assumed command of it at Port Gibson, Miss., May 2, 1863, to the present time. In it I have included the distances marched, the time in which the march was made, the battles fought, the number killed and wounded, the number of prisoners taken, the number of cannon, small-arms, and other stores, with kind and quantity of all property. For a report of the operations of the brigade from the date of its departure from Milliken's Bend to May 2, 1863, you are respectfully referred to the report of Col. C. L. Harris, Eleventh Wisconsin Volunteers, accompanying this, (*) and to the able report of Col. William M. Stone, Twenty-second Iowa Volunteers, which is already in your possession.
[excerpt]
Special and honorable mention should be made of A.M. Lyon, esq., sutler of the Twenty-third Iowa, a brave old man, who took a gun at the commencement of the battle, went into the ranks, fought nobly, and fell, mortally wounded.
==================================
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXV/2 [S# 40]
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating To Operations In Northern Virginia, West Virginia, Maryland, And Pennsylvania, From January 26 To June 2, 1863.
UNION CORRESPONDENCE, ETC.--#20
IV. The commanding officer of every regiment and detachment to which a sutler is legally appointed will be held responsible that his duties, as defined in the, Thirtieth Article of War, the Revised Army Regulations, and the act to provide for the appointment of sutlers, &c., published in General Orders, No. 27, War Department, 1862, are properly performed.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- South of the North 40
Sutlers were taking quite a risk running a mobile business in a war zone. Compared to prices at home they were guaranteed to be higher, often quite a bit. The soldiers naturaly felt taken advantage of and resentment often ran very high.
Union_Buff
Major
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2009
- Location
- New Zealand
So, as you've said Johan, with resentment running high because of the higher prices, would leave the sutlers open to attack from the soldiers?
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- Near Kankakee
Don't know how things run in New Zealand, but here, if you just want a loaf of bread and choose to buy that in the nearest convenience store, you will pay more than you would if you went to the main market. That's the meaning of "convenience."
The sutler provided convenience. He offered junk, risked everything, and turned a pretty penny in doing so. If he weren't wiped out in a retreat. The government didn't supply a deck of cards, stationery, a can of peaches or dirty post-cards. No tobacco, no candy, no treats.
Risk/reward.
Ole
The sutler provided convenience. He offered junk, risked everything, and turned a pretty penny in doing so. If he weren't wiped out in a retreat. The government didn't supply a deck of cards, stationery, a can of peaches or dirty post-cards. No tobacco, no candy, no treats.
Risk/reward.
Ole
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- South of the North 40
There are numerous accounts of sutlers losing everything to soldiers, the enemy and to nature. A Sutler could get rich, broke or dead depending on how his luck held.
Scribe
Cadet
- Joined
- May 9, 2008
- Location
- St. Louis, Mo
Sorry for a quick diversion.
My grandson and his classmates are collecting candy bars, toothpaste, and other items for our troops in Afghanistan. I have seen other drives to collect and send such things as sunscreen, handi-wipes, et al to the troops. When did the DoD stop supplying our men and women in harms way with these "extras?"
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- Near Kankakee
Did the DoD ever supply such items?
Ole
Ole
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- South of the North 40
Not when I was in.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- Nashville
I'm more inclined to believe the sutlers were generally a welcome sight, at least to the Confederates. Not unlike the top of the baseball stadium on a hot day. That cold beer at $7.50 looks a lot better than the hike down to the concession area where it's only $7.00.
Freddy
2nd Lieutenant
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2006
- Location
- Worcester, MA
Here are some store prices in Knoxville during 1863. My guess is that a sutler would charge much more for the same goods out on the march.
October 20th.
Busy all forenoon cleaning gun, and washing and cleaning up generally. Visited the city this afternoon. Quite a substantial looking place, but showing the marks of its recent occupation by the rebels, who did not hesitate to help themselves to much of the stocks in the stores and shops. The prices of some of the store goods as follows:
Shoes
$4.00 and upwards
Boots
$12.00 and upwards
Coffee
$1.60 per lb.
Sugar
.50 per lb.
Cheese
.60 per lb.
Butter
.50 per lb.
Syrup
$2.00 a gallon
Flour
Cheap and plenty
www.civilwardiary.net
October 20th.
Busy all forenoon cleaning gun, and washing and cleaning up generally. Visited the city this afternoon. Quite a substantial looking place, but showing the marks of its recent occupation by the rebels, who did not hesitate to help themselves to much of the stocks in the stores and shops. The prices of some of the store goods as follows:
Shoes
$4.00 and upwards
Boots
$12.00 and upwards
Coffee
$1.60 per lb.
Sugar
.50 per lb.
Cheese
.60 per lb.
Butter
.50 per lb.
Syrup
$2.00 a gallon
Flour
Cheap and plenty
www.civilwardiary.net
Union_Buff
Major
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2009
- Location
- New Zealand
Thanks for the price list Freddy.
So I'm guessing that even though the prices were sky high, soldiers who really needed an item would pay anything for it?
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- Nashville
Union wages for a private were, I believe, $10 a month. A farrier made $13 a month. A Confederate was not paid much if anything the last year of the war. Sutler's would have led an interesting life. They didn't follow the AOT very long!
The PX system the DOD operates is a bit difficult to operate in a user friendly manner considering the amount of area covered so thinly by our forces in Afghanistan. (I'm restating my belief that the key to stability in the region is control of the borders and what comes in and goes out same.) It's been my observation that the Beef Jerky and Licorice disappears first. See the Medic for soap.
Contact Information
Should you be disposed to send some supplies to our people now in Afghanistan (or anywhere else they are) a good source of information regarding the manner to go about it is contained at:
http://www.anysoldier.com/HowToSend.cfm
Should you be disposed to send some supplies to our people now in Afghanistan (or anywhere else they are) a good source of information regarding the manner to go about it is contained at:
http://www.anysoldier.com/HowToSend.cfm
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- Near Kankakee
Thanks for the link, Henry. There are many such organizations, but your link is a first on this site.
If you favor the men and women serving in country, send them a perk. Hard candy, skin lotion, Kleenex, paperbacks ... they ought not have to buy such comforts.
If you favor the men and women serving in country, send them a perk. Hard candy, skin lotion, Kleenex, paperbacks ... they ought not have to buy such comforts.
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2005
- Location
- South of the North 40
I send one box a year to someone deployed. Hint, Pringles are a bad idea, Pringle flavored powder after transit.
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