Surrender Oak Artifacts

[tony_gunter]

I've often wondered if there are any remnants of the surrender oak or Douglas the Camel floating around in attics or in storage. Both of these were completely cannibalized by relic seekers following the surrender.

I found a story in the (Illinois) Kewanee Daily Courier about a gavel possessed by the Kewanee GAR chapter carved from the surrender oak. I asked a local group about what happened to the chapter, and it appears to have been disbanded between the world wars; nobody knows what might have happened to the gavel.

Is anyone aware of any other artifacts that may still exist?

 

[Bradley]

I have only ever heard of one alleged Douglas the Camel relic in a collection in Texas, but I only heard of it, I never saw it.

Personally, I do not believe the Douglas the Camel story is true. I find it totally unbelievable that not a single siege diary or letter, to my knowledge, mentions the camel. Even men from that brigade fail to mention something as unusual as having a camel as a mascot.

I would love to be proven wrong because it is a fun story. I mean it, please prove me wrong!

 

[tony_gunter]

I have only ever heard of one alleged Douglas the Camel relic in a collection in Texas, but I only heard of it, I never saw it.

Personally, I do not believe the Douglas the Camel story is true. I find it totally unbelievable that not a single siege diary or letter, to my knowledge, mentions the camel. Even men from that brigade fail to mention something as unusual as having a camel as a mascot.

I would love to be proven wrong because it is a fun story. I mean it, please prove me wrong!

I didn't save any, because sieges are a snooze fest, but I know I've seen multiple first-hand accounts from the Federal side of troops scavenging Douglas' body for souvenirs.

 

[Pollaco]

I read that many of the alleged rings carved from the bones of Douglas were really cattle,horse, or mule bones. There were just so many real camel bones so after that lot was used up the soldiers just kept on carving. The demand was established and It had become sort of an "industry" by then.

 

[tony_gunter]

I'm starting to question whether I have seen any such accounts now. I did a brief scan of newspapers with Vicksburg and camel as the keywords and can't seem to find any articles.

 

[Bradley]

I read that many of the alleged rings carved from the bones of Douglas were really cattle,horse, or mule bones. There were just so many real camel bones so after that lot was used up the soldiers just kept on carving. The demand was established and It had become sort of an "industry" by then.

The earliest version of this tale of an industry for faux camel bone souvenirs, so far as I have uncovered in my research, is found in W. S. Morris' History of the 31st Illinois, published in 1902.

(I have a very rough draft of an article that I am writing on this subject, with hopes of publishing soon, so again I very much welcome anyone out there to share any wartime sources that they have found which discuss the existence of a camel in the Confederate ranks--I would rather be proven wrong on CWT than after I've published an article )

 

[Pollaco]

 

[Pollaco]

I

View attachment 575478

Is this a grave which contains his remains or just a marker?

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

found a story in the (Illinois) Kewanee Daily Courier about a gavel possessed by the Kewanee GAR chapter carved from the surrender oak

Very timely that you've brought this up because I've been thinking about this subject about GAR and gavels, etc.

A number of these GAR gavels were supposedly carved from surrender/witness trees but as GAR halls closed down and artifacts were dispersed the stories and artifacts have gotten lost. Especially the gavels if they weren't marked in some way. I have wondered where they have all got to.

There are some glorious GAR halls in New England and some really sad little ones. I'm thinking of a tiny one around Pittsfield(?), NH that has an antique store and calls itself something like, "The GAR Antique Store" because the upstairs of this very tiny building was a GAR hall at one time. I went there a couple of years ago and tried to see the upstairs. They wouldn't let me because the whole building is basically a wreck upstairs. It used to be a pizza shop or something and is now empty so I can only imagine the condition of the place. I asked if they knew were any of the records, notes, artifacts were and they had no idea and honestly, they could have cared less. All that stuff had to end up somewhere.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

There are a few GAR halls that closed but everything just stayed there and nothing taken away. Few and far between but they exist and the stories are now coming back to life.

 

[Bradley]

Is this a grave which contains his remains or just a marker?

It's just a marker.

 

[Cato3rd]

because I've been thinking about this subject about GAR and gavels, etc.

I have wondered where they have all got to.

We must be on the same wavelength. My dad and I are part of a Sons of Union Veterans chapter in NJ and I'm honestly amazed at the lack of stuff preserved from the old GAR hall. It's in a pretty densely populated area so there should be pictures, memorabilia, and other things associated with the GAR. Everything else was photographed in the area but not GAR members in a parade? Just seems odd

I think a lot of this is just sitting in weird places. I got a 12 pound shell in my collection that was being used as a middle school shot put until a few years ago. That probably came from an old GAR hall and somehow ended up as practice sports equipment

 

[Samwisep86]

On the note about Surrender Oak artifacts, VMNP does still have the original surrender monument (placed in 1864), which has had multiple chunks taken out of it over the years from alleged souvenir hunters. I would be curious to find any of those "pieces" of the monument that were taken, but I have never heard of any that existed (Granted - they would be just pieces of marble, unless they had some documentation).

 

[Samwisep86]

It's just a marker.

Reportedly originally placed in the 1960s by the SCV.

 

[Bradley]

Reportedly originally placed in the 1960s by the SCV.

Do you believe it? I'd have guessed 1990s, if not early 2000s.

 

[Samwisep86]

Do you believe it? I'd have guessed 1990s, if not early 2000s.

That's what I've heard from people around Vicksburg, but it wouldn't surprise me if its more recent.

 

[Bradley]

VMNP does still have the original surrender monument (placed in 1864), which has had multiple chunks taken out of it over the years from alleged souvenir hunters

Do you know if VNMP has the globe that surmounted the 1864 obelisk stowed away somewhere? Or is that also lost? I have read that the '64 monument stood about 12 ft. tall with the globe on top. It appears rather diminutive, today.

 

[Samwisep86]

Do you know if VNMP has the globe that surmounted the 1864 obelisk stowed away somewhere? Or is that also lost? I have read that the '64 monument stood about 12 ft. tall with the globe on top. It appears rather diminutive, today.

View attachment 575597

The Park has both globe/topper and the base pedestal to the monument in storage. I've seen them both.

 

[Bradley]

The Park has both globe/topper and the base pedestal to the monument in storage. I've seen them both.

I'm grateful, thanks!