Stolen Valor.

[damYankee]

We all have a vivid imagination, that is part of being a history nut, and if you enjoy studying the Civil War having an imagination is important. With all the thousands of books and hundreds of movies made about that event it is easy to have our imagination fueled by imagery of gloriously brave men living heroic lives.
But when does that cross the line and become stolen valor?
We should always respect and honor the sacrifices made by past generations, but do we honestly have the right to suggest that we continue on with their legacy?
I appreciate and applaud reenactments and those who participate in historical reenactment, but I suspect those who allude to an affiliation or somehow suggest that they are still living that experience and are carrying some family traditions are IMO pushing the limits, and come very close to stealing the valor of men long dead.

 

[John Winn]

I'd say the line is crossed when we start putting words in their mouths or claiming their valor in some way reflects on us (i.e. claiming some status for having ancestors who participated). As for re-enactors I just see them as trying to keep the memory alive which I consider a type of honoring (although for many I imagine it might just be a fun weekend away sort of thing). Trying to live as closely as possible as the CW folk did is educational and spurs the imagination so as to try and understand what happened to those people.

 

[unionblue]

The very title "reenactor" should state loud and clear that none of us who participate in that hobby can come no where near to experiencing the courage and sacrifice of those who were actually there involved in real events.

After all, when the word "actor" and "REenact" describe those of us who do such, how in the world can we think we are even coming close to what our ancestors experienced? Couple that with the idea we drive our cars from our 21st century homes to a field filled with vendors and food stands, spend a weekend in a tent with our coolers hidden and our cell phones on vibrate, pack up and come home to our TV, bathrooms and Lazy Boy chairs, really?

In other words, NO one should feel they are actually living those experiences from that long ago time.

IMHO,
Unionblue

 

[Tom Elmore]

"It is a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs to our ancestors." - Plutarch

I cannot put my finger on the author (Voltaire?) of a sentiment that everybody can find kings and fools among their ancestors. We boast about the kings within our family tree, but we conveniently forget to mention the fools. Likewise, we tout ancestors who were brave, but overlook those who were cowards. Or, as my mother is fond of saying: "Brave men run in our family." It was a Civil War veteran who spoke of brave men with cowardly legs.

 

[thomas aagaard]

In some cased a king can be a fool...
(one of my ancestors was danish Crhistoffer II... and he was a very bad king)

 

[John Winn]

"It is a desirable thing to be well-descended, but the glory belongs to our ancestors." - Plutarch

I cannot put my finger on the author (Voltaire?) of a sentiment that everybody can find kings and fools among their ancestors. We boast about the kings within our family tree, but we conveniently forget to mention the fools. Likewise, we tout ancestors who were brave, but overlook those who were cowards. Or, as my mother is fond of saying: "Brave men run in our family." It was a Civil War veteran who spoke of brave men with cowardly legs.

I like your mom already. I remember my mother saying that her father said his father, John Winn of avatar fame, said "if you ever see a picture of me in the war it'll be from behind because I'd be running the other way." I do wonder sometimes.

 

[major bill]

I do often wonder if some people believe they somehow earn valor by the service of their ancestors. I am uncertain why someone would need to rely on their ancestor's service or valor to justify their own lives.

 

[BillO]

There is an old saying among pilots that there are old pilots and bold pilots but few old, bold pilots.
I suspect the same would hold true for soldiers as well.

 

[BillO]

I do often wonder if some people believe they somehow earn valor by the service of their ancestors. I am uncertain why someone would need to rely on their ancestor's service or valor to justify their own lives.

Personally I would have preferred my Dad to have been a little less brave and a lot richer.

 

[major bill]

My great great grandfather died in the Civil War. I have never put a flag on his grave or ever visited his grave. If my wife was not into genealogy I would not know his name or that he served in the Civil War. My grandfather never mentioned his name that I recall let alone said he died in the Civil War. I kind of doubt my mother knew his name or that he was in the war.

 

[damYankee]

My grandfather walked the Oregon Trail, I can remember listening to him and his brother Uncle Archie talking about the trip, but no matter how many times I drive along the trail in my truck driving more mikes in 30 mins then they would have made in two days, but my feet don't hurt.
That is the difference.
We can appreciate what they did, we can visit the places they did things, we can even reenact some of thier actions, but we live in the here and now..

 

[Bee]

"Stolen Valor" is a term applied to the phenomenon of people falsely claiming military awards or badges they did not earn, service they did not perform, Prisoner of War experiences that never happened, and other tales of military derring-do that exist only in their minds.

I don't believe that anything mentioned in the OP comes close to this offense. I come from a heritage that honors and remembers their elders, but I do not believe that this is the same as stealing their valor -- even when we dress up and do the dances that they did, and act out the very same deeds that they did a very long time ago

 

[LoriAnn]

We should always respect and honor the sacrifices made by past generations, but do we honestly have the right to suggest that we continue on with their legacy?

I'd like to add the suggestion that this also applies to the less honorable moments and people in our personal pasts.

Just as we cannot claim bravery or superiority based solely on the actions of our ancestors, neither should we be saddled with their mistakes.

 

[unicornforge]

.... And then there are extremes. We have two gentlemen, a father and son, in town that, as far as I have noticed, always walk around in WWII German uniforms, without the insignia. One would have to recognize the clothing and/or have talked to them to be clued into their frame of mind and what they area wearing. The son tried the army briefly, he didn't meet the army's needs apparently. So his identity is all about the German uniform. Living near Gettysburg, I see a lot of people who appear to feel they are associating their identity with the valor and accomplishments of those they portray. ... Not to mention that so many become instant experts on the WBST the instant they put on the uniform.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

I got in a lot of trouble here once saying a reenactor seemed to me a kind of archivist, saving History whole instead of a drawer somewhere. Guessing that will still raise objections, just what it seems to me.

It's a good point, perhaps some who go well over board identifying with ancestors in the war in a way are guilty of this. Hate to bring this up but mostly we see the soldier in question being identified through the side fought on?

No idea what percentage of other history/ancestor buffs feel the same but as someone with Civil War soldiers in the tree it's like touching History, to me, to have them there. Having said that believe me, the ' I AM my ancestor sure does exist. Haven't had anyone challenge any of our Civil War ancestors yet ( surprisingly, two fit the bill for being the kind of ancestor you're likely to receive emails out of the blue from nutty cousins saying " Oh yes? Well he's way more related to me than he is to you ". Fighting over dead people has not yet been put on my list of Things To Do When Insane. )

It can't count as stolen valor, not being military but boy, there are folks who identify so strongly with ancestors who were famous or important ( famously important? ) they really will write to total strangers ensuring you know ( you peasant you ) this long-dead person was NOT your relative, he/she was THEIRS. Holy gee whiz.

 

[USS ALASKA]

Legally - "The Stolen Valor Act of 2013 is a United States federal law that was passed by the 113th United States Congress. The law amends the federal criminal code to make it a crime for a person to fraudulently claim having received any of a series of particular military decorations and awards with the intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit from convincing someone that he or she rightfully did receive that award."

usastruck.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/photo-2.jpg

www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Stolen-Valor.jpg

d26horl2n8pviu.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/030/390/for_gallery_v2/StolenValor.jpg?1427015772

And they thought no one would notice...

Cheers,
USS ALASKA

 

[damYankee]

"Stolen Valor" is a term applied to the phenomenon of people falsely claiming military awards or badges they did not earn, service they did not perform, Prisoner of War experiences that never happened, and other tales of military derring-do that exist only in their minds.

I don't believe that anything mentioned in the OP comes close to this offense. I come from a heritage that honors and remembers their elders, but I do not believe that this is the same as stealing their valor -- even when we dress up and do the dances that they did, and act out the very same deeds that they did a very long time ago

Good point, but there are those who behave as if they are the victim of the outcome of history, as if they personally experienced the defeat of the CSA, that thier heritage was defiled and is still being mistreated.
To make statements that allude to events that happened 150 years ago as personal experiences is laughable.

 

[damYankee]

I'd like to add the suggestion that this also applies to the less honorable moments and people in our personal pasts.

Just as we cannot claim bravery or superiority based solely on the actions of our ancestors, neither should we be saddled with their mistakes.

I agree. From what I have witnessed these are people who saddle themselves.
We all have ancestors who lived during the era of slavery and the Civil War, we also had ancestors who more recently served in other wars that occurred since that era.
So why do some develop such a emotional connection to the ancestors who lived so long ago?
Why do some take so personally the out come of the Civil War, but ignore the majority of history that we share with all Americans that had a much better outcome?
Take one State, Virginia, I bet many can name several Confederate heroes that were Virginian's.
Virginia also had a very important role in our revolution, and has sent many to serve in every war we have been involved in, actually, more Virginians died serving the US in WWI and WWII and Korea and Vietnam, than those who died serving the CSA.
So why are a few so hung up on what went down 150 years ago?

 

[Bee]

there are those who behave as if they are the victim of the outcome of history, as if they personally experienced the defeat of the CSA, that thier heritage was defiled and is still being mistreated.

I have some of those in my family, too -- different wars, different outcome -- but we won't go there

 

[zburkett]

The 8th Alabama camped on what is at present my farm, then marched off to the Wilderness. In my living room there is a small memorial honoring them and telling part of their story. On foggy mornings I will sometimes put the McClellan on my horse and ride out to listen to them. Is that trying to steal their valor or honoring it? only 169 of them made it to Appomattox but rather than surrender their flag they tore it apart and each survivor kept a piece. No one or nothing can steal their valor.