Stinking Bodies

[william42]

Thanks for your post Ole. I was thinking primarily of the Salt Pork, apples, and other items gleaned through foraging. I realize that there were some differences in diet between the two armies, but reading the list you provided in your post for both armies, I can't imagine that the difference would be enough to account for such a difference in the manner in which dead bodies killed on the same battlefield would decompose. I don't remember seeing that in any of my reading, but of course I could have missed it. I do believe also that the Confederate armies travelled great distances, even in the east, especially during the two invasions of the north, where there would have been quite a bit of foraging, such as the Union army did during the campaign through Georgia.

Terry

 

[ole]

Terry:
The CSA travelling distances marched on the same routes they travelled a few weeks ago. Nothing left.

The real deal and difference was Confederate supply. The powers seemed to do fine with ammo and armaments, but missed the boat on clothing, blankets, tenting, food and other comforts.

It is a testament to the valor of the Confederate soldier that he didn't just go home much earlier.

Ole

 

[Admiral_Porter]

The south's lack of east-west railroads and manufacturing facilities for producing rails and locomotives only made their supply situation worse.

 

[rbenne]

8,000 dead on the field and many still are dieing? Tragic, but its only enlisted men, lower classes after all. Not like many officers were in the pile.

Sound cold and callous? Sure it does, but that is one thing we so often forget about the ACW, Class was very important and some lives were not as valuable as others. If a person today were to talk about a death of a minority as less important we would all look at them like they were insane, but think of the level of racism us older folks remember from say the 60's or 70's, now apply that school of thought to the lower white classes of the day and you would be about there.

Life was always valuable, but some was far less valuable then others. Grant and the other senior and most junior officers were of the upper classes, they would not have valued the lives of the common man as we would have expected today.

 

[ole]

Ray.

Wrong side of the bed again?

I agree totally. It still stirs my gall when a number is given as "officers and men." But usually there's no one to shout at (it's inadvisable to shout at Mrs. Ole and we can't be hurting the dog's feelings).

Good to see you back.
Ole

 

[Admiral_Porter]

Grant and the other senior and most junior officers were of the upper classes, they would not have valued the lives of the common man as we would have expected today.

How was Grant part of the upper class? Before the war he experienced much financial hardship and was born to a common family.

If anyone was part of the upper class it was the aristocratic Bob Lee and Wade Hampton.

I find your statement that officers don't care about their men to be disingenuous.

 

[ole]

How was Grant part of the upper class? Before the war he experienced much financial hardship and was born to a common family.

Admiral, to put a finer point on it, Grant moved up a class or two with his rise in the ranks. To his credit, it doesn't appear that his much loftier position affected his roots.

It's a thing that has always fascinated me about the man. By any measure, he was a loser. That Julia saw something in him is heart-warming -- the stuff of soaps. That the war came and his only talent was needed is worth several novels and movies. Accidental? Divinely guided? The right man with the right political backing with the proper attitude and aptitude. Sounds a bit like intelligent design, doesn't it?

Ole

 

[rbenne]

Admiral

Disingenuous? I do hope you do not mean this to be the insult it seems to be, no I am not trying to be deceitful, hypocritical or devious in my statement. Of course Grant was of the upper classes, he was not a "mechanic" who slaved in a dank factory all day, uneducated, without hope of a future. I seem to remember him as a college graduate of good enough family to get into a very prestigious college at that (West Point)

My simple point is that commoners were not valued as gentlemen were. And I did not say that officers don't care about there men, nor would I have said that slave owners didn't care about their slaves, however one cares differently about the lower classes, back then. A life is not just a life, it depends on the value of the life. (Again, in 19th century thinking)

 

[Admiral_Porter]

I do hope you do not mean this to be the insult it seems to be,

It's not an insult. I felt that your comment was unfair.

he was not a "mechanic" who slaved in a dank factory all day,

Did he not work in a tannery? Did he not try farming?

I seem to remember him as a college graduate of good enough family to get into a very prestigious college at that (West Point)

And yet he still had a very hard time meeting financial requirements prior to the war.

Maybe he was a middle class person but I would not consider him to be a member of the upper class with all his financial woes.

 

[samgrant]

I think Mr. Grant was well aware of his simple roots, and was realistic in his place in life, as by naming his quite rustic (relative to the surrounding manses) homestead "Hardscrabble".

As to his appointment to West Point, he was not born to a well to do family. It was almost a fluke. Ulysses wanted to be a riverboat man.

His father, asked his 'friend' Sen. Morris if he could grant an appointment. No, the Sen. replied.

Jesse, U.'s father, persisted and wrote the War Dept. By happenstance, a boy from that district had been dismissed, and therefore there was an opening.

U. said "But I won't go!".

But he did go... etc.

 

[ole]

In no way can Hiram Ulysses Grant be considered upper class. Well, maybe when he was in his last year at the Point. His lot was the struggle. Not low and begging, but also not high and thriving. He failed at virtually everything he ever tried. He was a lousy farmer and was reduced to selling firewood. Ultimately, he ended up in the family trade with his father and brothers.

Without the war, he and Julia and family would have scraped through life like everyone else, saving the pennies to make Sunday dinner

But to the point, did he care about his soldiers? Can't say. It would appear that he did, but he did spend them rather freely on occasion.

Ole

 

[matthew mckeon]

The Civil War attitude towards the "butcher's bill" seems very callous by 21th century standards. Leaders on both sides were willing to endure heavy losses to win battles. But it was society that was experienced in death. Lincoln lost two children, Jefferson Davis his first wife, Longstreet several of his children, the list goes on. And they felt those losses too. Maybe it made they mentally tougher, or stronger.

 

[30th_il]

Regarding "Stinking Bodies", my water heater has been out since Thursday (they should be here today, Sat at 1pm) the dishes are piling up, laundry is a small mountain and we are all in need of showers. Trying to be "civil" during this time is difficult and "war" has broken out at times between us. Does this count?

 

[blue_zouave]

30th, my deepest sympathies, it's kind of like reenacting without the gunpowder smoke. At least your toilets still work and you don't have a Port-a-john in the front yard!

Best wishes for speedy recovery of hot water.

Zou