Springfield Rifle Confederate "Bring Back"

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

Confederate veteran Robert Mathew Thomas of "A" Company 26th Virginia Infantry Regiment (seated) and his son George Dallas Thomas.

According to the person who shared this photo with me this was the rifle he brought back with him after the end of the war.

It apparently took Robert Thomas three months to walk back home from Appomattox.

 

[johan_steele]

Enlisted men stacked arms and left them at Appomattox. That's a conversion from flintlock, by 1865 the ANV was carrying 1st rate arms like the P53. That pictured was not a first rate arm in 1861.

might he have owned it? Yes. Did he bring it home from Appomattox? Highly doubtful. If it's for sale... buy the weapon instead of the story. Because that weapon with that story don't sell.

 

[bankerpapaw]

I've often wondered how long it took the boys from west of the Mississippi to get home after the surrender.

 

[Don Dixon]

It apparently took Robert Thomas three months to walk back home from Appomattox.

Quite likely not.

I've often wondered how long it took the boys from west of the Mississippi to get home after the surrender.

It was to the advantage of the Federal Army and the U.S. government that the Confederate armies be disestablished and the soldiers returned home as quickly as possible. During the meeting between Grant and Lee at Appomattox it was agreed that each Confederate soldier would be provided with an individual parole pass certifying that the man would not take up arms against the United States. Per Grant's instructions these passes could aid the former Confederates during their journey home, allowing them to use federal transportation (ships and trains where available) or to draw food and supplies from federal occupation forces in the South. The surrender agreements of the remaining Confederate armies were similar to that of the Army of Northern Virginia. Did that make getting home easy given the disruption of the southern transportation system? Probably not. But it is not poor starving Confederates walking home 1,000 miles on their crutches with bloody stumps for legs as some would have you believe. Demobilized Federal troops had to face the same transportation issues if they were among the many who had come from the south.

If you elected not to surrender and accept parole - and perhaps Thomas elected not to do so since he allegedly took a weapon home with him - then you could try to make it home on your own.

As for Thomas' cone-in-barrel transformation and the late war armament of the Confederacy, the Macon Arsenal was still issuing flints in 1863 and receiving turn-ins of flintlock smoothbores in 1864.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[tbuckley]

Just a thought, and I may be way off. I have seen conversion muskets that were supposedly brought home from the war by Union veterans and I strongly suspect that they were purchased post-war by the veterans for GAR parades and other functions. Could this be a musket purchased post-war by a Confederate veteran for UCV parades?

 

[UCVRelics]

I have to agree with @johan_steele

Could this be a musket purchased post-war by a Confederate veteran for UCV parades?

No as CS vets were NOT allowed to bear arms must less in a parade. You may see some in photos from time to time with a sword. They were not even allowed to wear any items with CS or CSA that is why you UCV items.

 

[redbob]

A story passed down through my family is that my G-G-G-Grandfather's Enfield that he carried in the Civil War stood in the corner of his bedroom (loaded) until the day that he died. Good story, but as an officer he would have never been issued a rifle. Sometimes, good stories are just that.

 

[Craig L Barry]

Well, this one does not have the ring of truth to it because if this particular soldier was at the surrender (Appomattox) in 1865 then of course the CS rank & file were required to turn in their weapons. I believe officers were able to retain their sidearms, though. Union soldiers could purchase their musket as well as other equipment when they mustered out. As Don points out, the soldier may have left with the weapon and not accepted the terms of the parole. Or he could have taken French Leave prior to the conclusion of the war and taken the weapon with him. Who knows? Leaving Appomattox with it does not sound right though.

That said, the musket is certainly "honest" looking and no doubt saw some combat on one side or the other during the conflict. These flintlock conversions were very common although less so for the Union as the war went on.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

A story passed down through my family is that my G-G-G-Grandfather's Enfield that he carried in the Civil War stood in the corner of his bedroom (loaded) until the day that he died. Good story, but as an officer he would have never been issued a rifle. Sometimes, good stories are just that.

Yep, you will find many, many families will tell you that the Model 1873 trapdoor springfield cartridge rifle (with a clear date of 1873 on the lockplate) was the gun carried by some ancestor in the Civil War that ended 8 years before 1873. My family had in the gun cabinet a ZULU shotgun with burst barrel and this was said to have been brought back from WWI by g-g-grandfather!

 

[Lanyard Puller]

A great reference to help sort out the "stories" attached to CS items is this book;

Thomas, Robert M. was paroled from Starks Battln, Light Arty, Armistead's Batt. and is the only listing which matched the name.

 

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

A great reference to help sort out the "stories" attached to CS items is this book;

View attachment 355020
Thomas, Robert M. was paroled from Starks Battln, Light Arty, Armistead's Batt. and is the only listing which matched the name.

Okay I'm somewhat confused. Why would he have a musktet if he was with Armistead's Artillery?

And apparently I might be wrong about his service with the 26th.

I have found him in "A" company of that Regiment as well as 61st Virginia Milita (Milita unit from his county) and now you're saying he was with Armistead's Artillery?

Can you make sense of this?

I've found no evidence of transfer for him.

 

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

Would this be a Springfield 1842 conversion from flintlock?

 

[johan_steele]

Would this be a Springfield 1842 conversion from flintlock?

It looks like an M1816 conversion from Flint.

 

[johan_steele]

Okay I'm somewhat confused. Why would he have a musktet if he was with Armistead's Artillery?

And apparently I might be wrong about his service with the 26th.

I have found him in "A" company of that Regiment as well as 61st Virginia Milita (Milita unit from his county) and now you're saying he was with Armistead's Artillery?

Can you make sense of this?

I've found no evidence of transfer for him.

I believe Lanyard Puller is referencing the book that lists all CS troops paroled at Appomattox. It shuts the door on many a claim of family being with Lee all the way to the end.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

@Johnny_Reb_1865
Sorry my brevity was confusing, as it usually is.. I got into Fold3 and the CW Data.com, data bases; and here's what I found;

Robert M. Thomas enlisted on 6/20/1861 at Mathews C.H., Virginia in to Capt. A.D. Armistead's Company, light artillery, 61st Regt. Va. Militia. The earliest pay records show him in Co. H, 61St.Va. Militia, Matthews Battalion as a Private.

The 61st Va. Regt {state troops, no longer militia} served from 5/62 until 4/65.

He isn't listed in any Va. 26th, state, militia, Cavalry or volunteers.

The musket you have is in all likelihood a Confederate alteration of a US flint lock musket, and he could have very well used it, but not too likely in an artillery battery. My G-G grandfather was also in an artillery unit, The Petersburg Artillery {thus my handle "lanyard Puller"}, serving as a small part of Jeb Stuarts Horse artillery. He brought home a very nice Colt Navy revolver, a small English telescope, and sawed off shotgun. None of these were issued to him, but more likely came from a poker game or a battlefield pick-up. They are the prized pieces in my collection.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I have to agree with @johan_steele

No as CS vets were NOT allowed to bear arms must less in a parade. You may see some in photos from time to time with a sword. They were not even allowed to wear any items with CS or CSA that is why you UCV items.

I've never heard that before. I understood that all confederate soldiers not already pardoned were pardoned by President Johnson on Christmas Day, 1868. But it is true that I've never seen photos of veterans marching with muskets, either!

 

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

@Johnny_Reb_1865
Sorry my brevity was confusing, as it usually is.. I got into Fold3 and the CW Data.com, data bases; and here's what I found;

Robert M. Thomas enlisted on 6/20/1861 at Mathews C.H., Virginia in to Capt. A.D. Armistead's Company, light artillery, 61st Regt. Va. Militia. The earliest pay records show him in Co. H, 61St.Va. Militia, Matthews Battalion as a Private.

The 61st Va. Regt {state troops, no longer militia} served from 5/62 until 4/65.

He isn't listed in any Va. 26th, state, militia, Cavalry or volunteers.

The musket you have is in all likelihood a Confederate alteration of a US flint lock musket, and he could have very well used it, but not too likely in an artillery battery. My G-G grandfather was also in an artillery unit, The Petersburg Artillery {thus my handle "lanyard Puller"}, serving as a small part of Jeb Stuarts Horse artillery. He brought home a very nice Colt Navy revolver, a small English telescope, and sawed off shotgun. None of these were issued to him, but more likely came from a poker game or a battlefield pick-up. They are the prized pieces in my collection.

Thanks for the information!

The musket is in possession of a decendant who asked me to figure out more about it.

What are the ways Thomas could've gotten this rifle?

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

These conversions made by drilling a hole in the top of the barrel and screwing in a nipple were disliked, and maybe unsafe, and were not in much demand after the War. Anyone would have been able to buy one for a few dollars after the War

 

[Package4]

I've never heard that before. I understood that all confederate soldiers not already pardoned were pardoned by President Johnson on Christmas Day, 1868. But it is true that I've never seen photos of veterans marching with muskets, either!

Yes, they came down hard and Southern veterans were not allowed to display any Confederate or Southern State insignia for many years after the war. The big quandary to cloth collectors are the US buttons on Southern pieces, were they contemporary or sewn on post war so that the coat may be worn in public. I have posted the order on here before, but can't remember when, I'll look for it again.