Discussion Some Very Basic Pistol Questions

[MikeyB]

Hey everyone. Few questions.
1) What was the most popular pistol used in the armies? Or was it really an assortment?
2) How long does it take the average soldier to fully reload a six shot?
3) What is the max distance of a shot? And at what distance can you reliably aim your shot?

 

[UCVRelics]

Hey everyone. Few questions.
1) What was the most popular pistol used in the armies? Or was it really an assortment?
2) How long does it take the average soldier to fully reload a six shot?
3) What is the max distance of a shot? And at what distance can you reliably aim your shot?

Great Questions. There were MANY different CW pistols, and depending on if you were an officer or cavalry which were the majority of pistol totters you would get different answers. Cavalry 36 Colt Navy, Field Officer 44 cal Colt. I'll leave the other questions up to the folks that fire them. I just collect them. paging @johan_steele

 

[johan_steele]

Hey everyone. Few questions.
1) What was the most popular pistol used in the armies? Or was it really an assortment?
2) How long does it take the average soldier to fully reload a six shot?
3) What is the max distance of a shot? And at what distance can you reliably aim your shot?

1: depends upon time and location as much as anything. Colt revolvers were quite popular before the war and carried on through and well afterward. Remington was a close second in popularity. The Starr was either loved or hated depending on who was asked. The Brit Adams was well liked by those who carried them and the various French pin fires were very well appreciated at the time but considerably less so after.

2: that wasn't done in combat and certainly not while being shot at while on the back of a horse.

3: a very skilled shot might reasonably hit a target out to 25 yards from a stationary spot. But the reality of combat is considerably different. I've read of cavalry troopers emptying their pistols at each other not much more than a horse's length away from each other and hitting nothing.

 

[johan_steele]

As a further note that would likely surprise many people the S&W pistols were highly prized despite their small caliber.

The story of the various pin fires is a fascinating one. Metallic cartridge that was quite reliable and a reliable mechanism. What sank them IMHO was three things. Lack of interchangeable parts quality control issues are integral to that. The advent of rim fire and center fire cartridges and finally the loss of the Franco Prussian War.

Something else that people often wonder is why the LeMat wasn't more popular. It was ridiculously expensive, very heavy to carry and quality control was abysmal. Some even apparently had cast iron frames. Needless to say while the firepower they carried was impressive it was outweighed by practical problems.

I recall reading one cavalryman commenting that he refused to carry a pistol because it made a damned poor club and he could actually hit what he was shooting with a carbine.

 

[poorjack]

As to reloading, sometimes it was possible to quickly reload by swapping cylinders like on the 1858 Remington. Not as easy with others.

 

[JOHN42768]

The Whitney Navy was also very popular

 

[johan_steele]

As to reloading, sometimes it was possible to quickly reload by swapping cylinders like on the 1858 Remington. Not as easy with others.

Remington didn't deliver extra cylinders and carrying around a spare loaded and capped cylinder wouldn't be much different than hauling a primed grenade around. As far as I've ever read swapping loaded cylinders is a Hollywood thing.

 

[johan_steele]

The Whitney Navy was also very popular

That's a good mention that I forgot to list. The Whitney revolver has a good reputation but is oft forgotten today.

 

[MikeyB]

So if you're an infantry officer and not mounted, in action, go through your six on a Colt. Is it like a 5 minute process to reload?

 

[johan_steele]

So if you're an infantry officer and not mounted, in action, go through your six on a Colt. Is it like a 5 minute process to reload?

It's been said that if it gets to a point that an infantry officer needs to use his pistol things are very desperate indeed.

reloading a cap & ball pistol under fire would not be an easy task. Getting the cartridges in would be the easy part, capping would be a nightmare. Could it be done? Yes, would it be is the important question. Realistically reloading would be done during a lull in the fight as an officer had other concerns regarding his command. His own safety wasn't supposed to be paramount commanding and directing his command was. That said not all officers were created equal.

Many veteran officers didn't even carry a pistol as it was added weight they would come not to appreciate on a long march. Their sword could be used to direct troops. By the middle of the war sharpshooters had made enough of an impression that many officers wouldn't wear shoulder straps and some would do their best to blend with their command.

for the CS side of things there was a chronic shortage of pistols for the Cav and many infantry officers donated their pistol to the Cav.

 

[La Tiger]

In a cavalry charge, maybe a couple of shots were fired. Six shots were plenty.

 

[poorjack]

Remington didn't deliver extra cylinders and carrying around a spare loaded and capped cylinder wouldn't be much different than hauling a primed grenade around. As far as I've ever read swapping loaded cylinders is a Hollywood thing.

Perhaps not as a normal cavalry trooper but when dealing with irregulars, the standards go out the window. So do you carry extra pistols on your saddle or extra cylinders? So probably not common, but still very possible.

 

[BillO]

Perhaps not as a normal cavalry trooper but when dealing with irregulars, the standards go out the window. So do you carry extra pistols on your saddle or extra cylinders? So probably not common, but still very possible.

Extra pistols not extra cylinders. Mosby liked the Colt Dragons. I've read that his rangers liked to ride in with 4 pistols, 2 on the belt and 2 in saddle holsters get close, empty everything and get away. Hanse McNeal, another well known Partisan favored an 8 bore double barreled shotgun.

 

[johan_steele]

Perhaps not as a normal cavalry trooper but when dealing with irregulars, the standards go out the window. So do you carry extra pistols on your saddle or extra cylinders? So probably not common, but still very possible.

The problem with extra cylinders is where did they come from? Remington didn't ship extra cylinders. There just aren't period accounts of swapping cylinders to reload ala Clint Eastwood. Trying to do it while on the back of a moving horse... yeah no. Guerrillas weren't soldiers in any case as it was. The regular Cav was chronically short of pistols throughout the entire war.

 

[DixieRifles]

As a further note that would likely surprise many people the S&W pistols were highly prized despite their small caliber.

I used to own and shoot a replica 1861 Colt Navy which is .36 caliber. Beautiful gun and really fun to shoot. But it was NOT a deadly weapon. I'm surprised anyone wanted to carry one. I guess it was good that it was a 6-shooter as it might take 6 shoots to finish off one lone enemy attacker.
Yet, it seems that the .36 caliber are a popular pistol as there seems to be lots of dug bullets for these guns.

Did the officers "highly prize" the Colt .36 or any .36 caliber for that matter??


BTW, it takes me 15 minutes or more to load only 5 chambers of my revolver. Of course, my No. 1 priority is SAFETY. I always assumed an Officer would hand their pistol to a staff member to reload---at least any officer above Captain.

 

[JOHN42768]

I used to own and shoot a replica 1861 Colt Navy which is .36 caliber. Beautiful gun and really fun to shoot. But it was NOT a deadly weapon. I'm surprised anyone wanted to carry one. I guess it was good that it was a 6-shooter as it might take 6 shoots to finish off one lone enemy attacker.
Yet, it seems that the .36 caliber are a popular pistol as there seems to be lots of dug bullets for these guns.

Did the officers "highly prize" the Colt .36 or any .36 caliber for that matter??


BTW, it takes me 15 minutes or more to load only 5 chambers of my revolver. Of course, my No. 1 priority is SAFETY. I always assumed an Officer would hand their pistol to a staff member to reload---at least any officer above Captain.

Why would you feel a .36 was NOT a deadly weapon ? Revolver is only going to be used at close range, not the 100 yard shots that the cowboys knock you off the horse. Heck a .22 can kill you. Even if not a mortal would, it is going to put you out of action to some degree. Size of the hole may be relative, but where the hole is being the important part of the equation. Police forces used 38's only till some years ago. The military went from .45 to 9mm. Granted a .44 packs more punch, but you bleed no matter the size of the wound. IMHO

 

[johan_steele]

I used to own and shoot a replica 1861 Colt Navy which is .36 caliber. Beautiful gun and really fun to shoot. But it was NOT a deadly weapon. I'm surprised anyone wanted to carry one. I guess it was good that it was a 6-shooter as it might take 6 shoots to finish off one lone enemy attacker.
Yet, it seems that the .36 caliber are a popular pistol as there seems to be lots of dug bullets for these guns.

Did the officers "highly prize" the Colt .36 or any .36 caliber for that matter??


BTW, it takes me 15 minutes or more to load only 5 chambers of my revolver. Of course, my No. 1 priority is SAFETY. I always assumed an Officer would hand their pistol to a staff member to reload---at least any officer above Captain.

The .36 is lethal at close range. Wild Bill Hickok preferred his .36 Colt Navy and continued to carry it even after he declared the S&W .44 Russian the best pistol he'd ever handled. Keep in mind these were used at short range, often with the muzzle nearly touching their opponent. With most shots being taken at under five yards.

over the years I've heard many complaints that smaller caliber rounds aren't effective. The Germans had no complaints about the 9mm in Russia and the Russians were quite satisfied with the effect of their Tokarov round. OO Buckshot is only about .31 cal IIRC and it is thought of as a superb defense round.

it really surprised me to discover that the small caliber S&W were as prized as they were. It should be noted that stopping power is usually not an issue to those who have been shot. That .36 bullet will do a lot of damage at close range certainly enough to put a man out of action.

 

[DixieRifles]

Why would you feel a .36 was NOT a deadly weapon ? Revolver is only going to be used at close range, not the 100 yard shots that the cowboys knock you off the horse. Heck a .22 can kill you. Even if not a mortal would, it is going to put you out of action to some degree. Size of the hole may be relative, but where the hole is being the important part of the equation. Police forces used 38's only till some years ago. The military went from .45 to 9mm. Granted a .44 packs more punch, but you bleed no matter the size of the wound. IMHO

Well, that was why the Army adopted the .45cal in 1911. They were using a .38 but it would not stop a charging Moro tribesmen.
The 1907 Army Pistol Trials

True--- a .36 round ball could kill. I have a .31 caliber pistol so I guess some thought it was good for self-defense, too.

Since I now shoot a .44, I don't recall the penetration of a .36 cal. I'm sure I burst a few full Coke cans but I don't remember. I recall shooting into water expecting to dazzle my guests with a display and all it creates is a small PLOP!

 

[DixieRifles]

it really surprised me to discover that the small caliber S&W were as prized as they were.

You answered my question.

 

[thomas aagaard]

In a cavalry charge, maybe a couple of shots were fired. Six shots were plenty.

By the later part of the war cavalry with firearms where usually defeated by men with sabers...