Sleeve braid/gullions

[John Winn]

I did some searching but didn't find what I was looking for so I'm posting a few questions.

Did officers in both the US and CS armies wear sleeve braid ? Seems to me I've only seen it on CS officers (and maybe US naval officers) but not US army officers.

Is this the correct sleeve braid designation for officers in all branches ?

1 strip of braid = Lieutenant
2 Captain
3 Major
4 Lt. Col.
5 Colonel
6 General

If the US used such and there were differences between US and CS, what were they ?

Thanks ahead of time and apologies if this is really elementary and should be known. I'm old and easily confused you know.

 

[redbob]

Good question, I'm looking forward to seeing the answer.

 

[major bill]

The Federal use of Austrian knots/sleeve braid for officer rank pre date the Civil War but Federal officers only wore the Austrian knots on their overcoats. All were similar to the Confederate system except generals wore only 5 rows of braids but were of the double knot style (an extra loop). There were some exceptions to the Federal officers wearing Austrian knots. Some Zouave officers wore these and some Mounted officers wore Austrian knots on private purchased stable jackets.


The following can be found in Uniform and Dress of the Army of the United States, 1861, General Orders, No. 6 War Department, Adjutant Generals Office, Washington, March 13, 1861:


To indicate rank, there will be on both sleeves, near the lower edge, a knot of flat black silk braid and exceeding one-eighth of an inch in width, arranged according to drawing, and composed as follows:


For a General - of five braids, double knot.

For Colonel - of five braids, single knot.

For Lieutenant Colonel - of four braids, single knot.

For Major - of three braids, single knot.

For a Captain - of two braids, single knot.

For a First Lieutenant - of one braid, single knot.

For a Second Lieutenant and Brevet Second Lieutenant - a plain sleeve, without knot or ornament.

 

[Lnwlf]

Thanks Bill! I never could remember all those knots and the rank associated with them. Probably never will either!

 

[Frederick14Va]

A few examples of the exceptions from following the regs....

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

The sleeve braid was official Confederate regulation for their Officer Corps, along with collar insignia.
The Federal (Army) Officer Corps normally displayed rank with shoulder boards. This well known illustration provides a good comparison of rank between the two forces.

 

[Robert Gray]

Federal Officers' cuff braid.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Federal Officers' cuff braid.View attachment 68664

And there were anomalies.

Custer comes to mind.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/539095017867622855/

 

[KILLroy1978]

I knew I had seen a picture of Custer with braids on his sleeves. Thank you for the post 7th Mississippi.
Is it just me or does Custer's braids seem a bit over the top?

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

I knew I had seen a picture of Custer with braids on his sleeves. Thank you for the post 7th Mississippi.
Is it just me or does Custer's braids seem a bit over the top?

Definitely.

I really have nothing against Custer, but I always think of the wrestler Rick Flair when I hear his name.

 

[KILLroy1978]

WOOOoooooooooooo............... or dirtiest player in the game?
If the latter, I can name a few Union generals more deserving of the title than Custer.

 

[Union_Buff]

Thank you for making this thread John - now I can finally make sense of the Confederate rank braid

 

[Frederick14Va]

Thank you for making this thread John - now I can finally make sense of the Confederate rank braid

... and of course to further muddy the waters... in 1862 Confederate officers were allowed to dispense with the sleeve braid altogether.... many did... some didn't... mid-late war era many officers jackets and frocks were void of sleeve braiding...

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

... and of course to further muddy the waters... in 1862 Confederate officers were allowed to dispense with the sleeve braid altogether.... many did... some didn't... mid-late war era many officers jackets and frocks were void of sleeve braiding...

Yep.
Union sharpshooters were picking off the Confederate line officers like flies.

After the revised CSA uniform regulations of 1862, CSA sleeve braid was for the most part only seen on dress uniforms.

In the "field". . . officers were now trying hard not to draw attention to themselves.

Not too long ago, there was a very good thread about this topic.

I'll try to find it & post the link.

 

[Frederick14Va]

Yep.
Union sharpshooters were picking off the Confederate line officers like flies.

After the revised CSA uniform regulations of 1862, CSA sleeve braid was for the most part only seen on dress uniforms.

In the "field". . . officers were now trying hard not to draw attention to themselves.

Not too long ago, there was a very good thread about this topic.

I'll try to find it & post the link.

Federal officers weren't immune either, they were experiencing the same/similar sting... hence the order to allow dispense with the shoulder straps... just the rank insignia device itself less the fancy gold border...