Monuments Should monuments using cannons switch to carriages?

major bill

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#1
Many of us grew up with monuments at courthouses, battlefields, and such using cannon mounted on a concrete slab. A few courthouses are taking the cannon off the concrete slab with a steel or aluminum carriages. I will use this one for an example even if it is not a Civil War gun.
IMG_0394.JPG


Note that this one has a date and title on it. On one hand this might look better on a remade pied carriage, but in one sense it is a monument in itself. So changing it would destroy a monument. The monument itself has a certain historic value So should places like this put these on cartages or leave them as is?
 

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#3
A good question, and like most I think it is best dealt with on a case by case basis. That said, I’m yet to meet a slab of concrete I’ve been a particular fan of. Now some of those display stands at the Navy Yard, with their turn of the century bronze scroll work, those are definitely worthy of preservation. It is also my understanding that the vast majority of these concrete pedestals are latter day constructions that replaced original carriages after they succumbed to rot, so they don’t really represent the various cannons as they were originally intended to be displayed. I think for cannons as architectural portions of monuments, there has to have been some kind of transformative artistic reuse in play, not just lowest bidder plinthing, to make them worthy of preservation in an unrestored state.
 

Taylin

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#4
We have two 8 inch (based on their weight, 8,000+ pounds) Rodmam guns here in Paoli Indiana on the court house yard, both sitting on modest monuments. The size of the carriage for these babies isn't exactly ideal and could take up more space not to mention cost $$$. A fun tidbit, there are only 56 of these 8 inch guns left, and we have two!
5386139340_27b0021d4f_b.jpg
 

civilwartalk

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#5
My concern would be that I bet there is a lot of Iron rot better known to the rest of the world as "rust" where the barrel contacts the concrete. I bet the concrete holds the moisture against the metal and doubles or triples the speed it deteriorates....

And you wouldn't be able to paint under the barrel properly without bringing in a crane, so any protection it had at installation would only last so long. It's doubtful these towns have the budget or thought process to go that far to maintain them in the long term. There are already brown rust stains all over the ground under the Rodman.
 

major bill

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#7
Coldwater Michigan went with simulated wood grained aluminum carriage for thier Civil War cannons. They are very nice. One could use the National Park at Gettysburg as an example of replacement carriages. However, the type used at Gettysburg may not be the way forward for courthouses. The ones at Gettysburg do need maintaining. These are some of a couple of the master patterns used at the cannon/carriage repair shop at the Gettysburg park. The damaged large fence piece was part of the fence from the "Bloody Angle" that had to be replaced.

master.jpg


Not every city would have a handy carriage repair shop and maintenance of the carriages could be an issue. I am not informed on how much maintenance aluminum replacement carriages require. Still freezing and thawing and such is hard on steel and aluminum. Perhaps the maintenance cost of concrete is lower.
 
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#9
I imagine most folks at courthouses don't notice the cannon since they've been there lifetimes with concern, and notice only coming after they've been vandalized.

Due to costs or replacing the concrete slabs with carriages, even aluminum ones, I'd say they leave them be with proper care being administered by the staff such as paint, clearing off rust, etc. as best as can be done to keep them from rusting away as much as possible. As stated local governments don't have the money to properly care for them, much less replace carriages, so unless there's a local movement to do so, it won't get done. So they might as well make an effort of some sort at taking care of them as is.

As for the concrete slabs having information about the guns on the, with a carriage they could conceivably mark it with a plaque, or just put up a marker by the guns.
 

2/241

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#11
I have no opinion 'bout the material but I have one 'bout the "elegance"

if it is/was a gun on a movable (wooden) carriage it should be presentented "movable"
the new carriage may be of various material (even glas)

If it was a heavy gun make it heavy.

No question of what material a question of mobility

The carriage may have been destroyed or rodden away,

but the new carriage is still functionable

and those who once manned that gun may have loved it.
 

ucvrelics

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#14
Do you rotting as in rotting away? I just a purest, I don't see anything wrong with preservation but it has to be done correctly. And you are correct on modern material as there are many great modern products, that can be applied to halt the deterioration and preserve them just as they are.
 

2/241

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#15
In German it's called "ehrliche Restaurierung"

it means: the correct form but visible

so if You have 3 shards of a pot, You built the piece in grey clay, put the shards in

You don't paint.You only restore the form not the looks

Anybody can see the form and what was left from the origional.

I do think it is the most honest way to present the past.

But oc there are heavy arguments
 

ucvrelics

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#16
Thanks I always LOVE learing new stuff. I really think this is more of a regional problem as with the harsh climate up north. I guess what it does to cars along with the salt and the expansion due to cold temperature will take a toll. Down here its not a big problem, plus I don't want to see anymore removed even for maintenance as you never know if we will get them back.:cold:
 

2/241

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#17
Thanks I always LOVE learing new stuff. I really think this is more of a regional problem as with the harsh climate up north. I guess what it does to cars along with the salt and the expansion due to cold temperature will take a toll. Down here its not a big problem, plus I don't want to see anymore removed even for maintenance as you never know if we will get them back.:cold:
If the answer was for me I'm down south in Germany
 

major bill

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#20
Wooden replica carriages would only last a few years out in the winter. Not sure how long wooden replica carriages would last in the warmer south.
 



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