Seeking Possible Identification? : Graphic!

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

I'm sure most of you are familiar with the famous photo of dead Confederates who were photographed along the Hagerstown Pike at Sharpsburg.

These men were members of Starke's Louisiana Brigade who were made up of the following units.

10th Louisiana Infantry
15th Louisiana Infantry
1st Louisiana (Zouaves) Infantry Battalion
1st Louisiana Volunteer Infantry
2nd Louisiana Infantry
9th Louisiana Infantry

In the photograph there is the body of a Confederate sergeant. So I did some research and narrowed it down to the following men.

Antietam: Sgt A. B. C. Davis

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt Samuel Kearney

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Pvt Philip Georges

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt George F. Richardson

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt John Ryan

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt Charles Henry Clay Trabue

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt William T. Clack

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt Alexander Feuga

antietam.aotw.org

Any thoughts on which soldier the unfortunate could be?

 

[gbeardsley]

noting how the 1st LA was on the extreme left of starkes line we can make a educated guess he is from that regt.
that would make the SGT. one of the following:

Antietam: Sgt John Ryan

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt Alpheus Shumway

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt George F. Richardson

antietam.aotw.org

C.H.C. trabue can be ruled out due to his family bible stating he was MW and died Sept.19/62 (top of page 4)

 

[gbeardsley]

there are some previous posts about this photo and the others gardner took along the pike and they have some interesting information to share, i'll link them below:

Uniforms of Starke's Brigade along Hagerstown Pike. (Graphic) | Relic Hunting & Collecting

Hello. I know there have been uniform studies of the Fort Mahone and Spotsylvania (Harris Farm) photos of Confederate dead, but I cannot recall seeing any of Starke's Brigade at Antietam, except som vague discussions on this forum. If anyone is up for a discussion, lets start with this photo...

civilwartalk.com

GRAPHIC - Antietam fence line Examination | Period Photos & Examinations

Hi list, Im at a crossroads with this image, so Im going to ask your opinion.. Is it worth while to zoom in and try to gain some knowledge of clothing and equipment or would it be too graphic and disrespectful to our honored dead...Let me know what you think and whatever the concenscious is...

civilwartalk.com

Antietam Fence line #2 | Period Photos & Examinations

Hi list, I thought we could examine another shot of Antietam that seems to be taken the same day as the previous shot, but just farther down the fence...

civilwartalk.com

 

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

I emailed the ABT about this and they had this to say.
_____

Garry Adelman, our Chief Historian, relayed the below information to me for you:

"The record is scant on the regimental order of Starke's Brigade along the Turnpike. I can only reasonably guess based upon which units reported suffering most from a battery further up the pike to the north, but that's hardly conclusive. Regardless of whether the 10th was the leftmost element, however, there's a good chance that some of the men seen are from the Tenth—the photos span northward to southeastward and span at least 2-3 regiments worth of fenceline. We also have to consider that some of those pictured might not be Starkes men, but some from a later part of the fight. In William Frassanito's original study of the photos (he was the one who located the site in Antietam: The Photographic Legacy of America's Bloodiest Day), he not only shows on his map that the 10th separated from the rest of the brigade, placing them on the left, BUT that they advanced to the fence in the middle of the group of photos. From what I recall, Frassanito does not cite his source for the 10th's movement to the left. I would ask the Park if they know more than we do."
_____

i remember reading a account in "I Dread the Thought of the Place" from oli claffey of the 10th louisiana mentioning how he had to leave his friend, sgt joseph joyce at the fence who was shot in the side.

THANKS SO MUCH for that information. Now I just need to confirm that's in there.

His military records do state he was killed at Sharpsburg. Apparently he was originally from England.

I see two other sergeants in the 10th as having been killed at Antietam.

Joseph Joyce, Co. D
Louis Aarons, Co. F

There were also 4 in the 1st Louisiana, 2 or 3 in the 2nd Louisiana, 1 in the 9th Louisiana, and 2 in the 15th Louisiana. Considering we aren't sure about who was where on the brigade line, this particular soldier could be any one of these men.

Ryan

Thanks Ryan! I don't have access to civil war data now because they're a pay site again so I couldn't see the full roster.

 

[gbeardsley]

Keep these posts coming! Very interesting

 

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

Keep these posts coming! Very interesting

I certainly will!

 

[gbeardsley]

i think we can rule Sgt. Shumway out due to being listed as wounded in action and left with a nurse. the sergeant in the photo looks have to been killed outright

 

[Lubliner]

Which leads me to believe the pocket was cut open with a knife. Suggesting he was looted.

It may be so, but it could also be to find orders or papers that might be important.
Lubliner.

 

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

View attachment 537285
i think we can rule Sgt. Shumway out due to being listed as wounded in action and left with a nurse. the sergeant in the photo looks have to been killed outright

Thanks! I'd like for someone who has a copy of "I Dread The Thought Of The Place" that another commenter mentioned where a soldier said he left his friend Sgt. Joyce at the fence.

 

[gbeardsley]

I'll be able to quote it tonight or tommorow night

 

[JackADriscoll]

Strange question but could body bloating cause some uniform damage? Broken buttons etc. I feel like it could depending on how well uniform fits

 

[rpkennedy]

Thanks! I'd like for someone who has a copy of "I Dread The Thought Of The Place" that another commenter mentioned where a soldier said he left his friend Sgt. Joyce at the fence.

Page 69:

Oli Claffey bluntly wrote, "We were being shot to hell." Stafford ordered an immediate retreat by the right flank. In an instant, Starke's and Jackson's brigades broke "rapidly" for the West Woods. Claffey left behind a close friend, Sergeant Joe Joyce, who had been shot through the side. "I wanted to save Joe but in the smoke and slaughter . . . it was impossible to take back any of our wounded," Claffey reminisced. Joyce died at the fence and may be one of the men in Gardner's photographs.

 

[rpkennedy]

Here's the accompanying map on page 52:

 

[WKFurlow]

I'm sure most of you are familiar with the famous photo of dead Confederates who were photographed along the Hagerstown Pike at Sharpsburg.

View attachment 533468

These men were members of Starke's Louisiana Brigade who were made up of the following units.

View attachment 533470

10th Louisiana Infantry
15th Louisiana Infantry
1st Louisiana (Zouaves) Infantry Battalion
1st Louisiana Volunteer Infantry
2nd Louisiana Infantry
9th Louisiana Infantry

View attachment 533469

In the photograph there is the body of a Confederate sergeant. So I did some research and narrowed it down to the following men.

Antietam: Sgt A. B. C. Davis

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt Samuel Kearney

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Pvt Philip Georges

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt George F. Richardson

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt John Ryan

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt Charles Henry Clay Trabue

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt William T. Clack

antietam.aotw.org

Antietam: Sgt Alexander Feuga

antietam.aotw.org

Any thoughts on which soldier the unfortunate could be?

Using AI Computer Vision tools, and This is purely Hypothetical, "Facial Recognition," It is possible to compare a known photo against an unknown one and determine the likelihood of it being a match or not. but you would also need special permission as the off-the-shelf AI solutions that I am aware of prohibit Facial Recognition from being used to identify people. Possibly For this historical photo, an exception could be made. Also if you have faded documents that are virtually impossible to read AI Computer Vision can Probably transcribe it.

 

[gbeardsley]

Using AI Computer Vision tools, and This is purely Hypothetical, "Facial Recognition," It is possible to compare a known photo against an unknown one and determine the likelihood of it being a match or not. but you would also need special permission as the off-the-shelf AI solutions that I am aware of prohibit Facial Recognition from being used to identify people. Possibly For this historical photo, an exception could be made. Also if you have faded documents that are virtually impossible to read AI Computer Vision can Probably transcribe it.

Thats probably the easy part. The hard part is finding faces to compare the soldiers in Gardner's photo against. Do you think it would be worthwile to contact possible family geneaologists?

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Here's the accompanying map on page 52:

View attachment 537969

Love the map.

 

[WKFurlow]

Thats probably the easy part. The hard part is finding faces to compare the soldiers in Gardner's photo against. Do you think it would be worthwile to contact possible family geneaologists?

You are right the AI Computer Vision facial recognition is the easy part. To answer your question directly. From my experience, families want and need to understand what happened to their kinfolk. Yes, I think a family genealogist would be interested in this. This is all very new to me I'm not sure/familiar with the particular tech tools the experts are using in this domain. What I do see at this point is that there is a Mountain of Data available but it is not easily accessible/searchable. It would not be a Moon Shot to make this data more easily searchable by placing the data in AI-friendly formats (Vector Database) for a quickly searchable knowledge base. Another point is that Computer Vision has the ability to read (transcribe) faded documents that are normally unreadable by the human eye.

 

[gbeardsley]

You are right the AI Computer Vision facial recognition is the easy part. To answer your question directly. From my experience, families want and need to understand what happened to their kinfolk. Yes, I think a family genealogist would be interested in this. This is all very new to me I'm not sure/familiar with the particular tech tools the experts are using in this domain. What I do see at this point is that there is a Mountain of Data available but it is not easily accessible/searchable. It would not be a Moon Shot to make this data more easily searchable by placing the data in AI-friendly formats (Vector Database) for a quickly searchable knowledge base. Another point is that Computer Vision has the ability to read (transcribe) faded documents that are normally unreadable by the human eye.

Tracking down some of the families will be hard since some of the listed soldiers have very common surnames.

 

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

Tracking down some of the families will be hard since some of the listed soldiers have very common surnames.

I'm of that opinion as well.

 

[gbeardsley]

Been trying to track down the Richardson and Ryan genealogists but I can't find the right tree since it is a common surname.

 

[Johnny_Reb_1865]

View attachment 537285
i think we can rule Sgt. Shumway out due to being listed as wounded in action and left with a nurse. the sergeant in the photo looks have to been killed outright

Do you think he was shot in the side? The way he's laying leads me to believe he was turning or repositioning when he was shot.