Reputation of each States soldiers?

[Stony]

ENTER THE 26TH NORTH CAROLINA
Expired Image Removed
Portrait of Colonel Henry K. Burgwyn of the 26th North Carolina (Wikimedia)
With 843 soldiers, the 26th North Carolina was the largest regiment not only in Pettigrew's brigade of roughly 2,500, but the largest in either army at Gettysburg. Commanded by the "boy general", 21-year old Colonel Henry King Burgwyn, the officers of the 26th were anxious to enter the fight before the day was done. Finally, at 2:30pm, the 26th and the rest of Pettigrew's Brigade was ordered forward.

With Col. Burgwyn taking his place at the center of the regiment, J.B. Mansfield, the regimental color bearer stepped out in front of the line with the regiment's square battle flag. Eight other members of the 26th's color guard joined Mansfield at the front. "Forward! March!" came the order.

The 26th North Carolina maintained perfectly dressed lines as they descended into the wheatfield in front of Willougby's Run. Fortunately for the Tarheels, the Yankees opposing them fired high. The 26th paused to return fire and then made a dash for the tangled banks of Willoughby's Run.

While most of the regiment made it safely to the banks of Willoughby's Run, the 26th's color guard, always a tempting target, suffered much heavier losses. Four members of the 26th's color guard were killed or wounded before they even reached the stream. Private John Stamper grabbed the regiment's colors as they entered into the brush near the stream but fell before he made it across. Private George Washington Kelly next took up the battle flag. Leaping across the water, Kelly fell to the ground, hit by shrapnel in the leg. Kelly's friend, L.A. Thomas, picked the flag up and began to move up the hillside. Thomas, like so many before him, was hit shortly afterwords and handed the flag to John Vinson. Vinson, in turn, was promptly wounded and the flag was passed to John Marley who was quickly dispatched by a hissing bullet. A tenth, unnamed man, took his turn holding the colors. In just ten minutes the 26th North Carolina had used ten different color bearers.

The men of the 26th North Carolina soon "came on with rapid strides, yelling like demons." Up the steep bank they came. Waiting in the thick woods were the trained rifles of the 24th Michigan.

With Burgwyn's men crowding into the stream bottom, Col. Henry Morrow of the 24th ordered his men to hold their fire until the terrain allowed for a clear shot. The men of the 26th swarmed up the far bank and on towards the forested positions of the 24th Michigan. Now seeing the distinctive Hardee hats on the heads of the Michigan men, some of Burgwyn's men exclaimed, "here are those damned black hat fellows again." With barely 40 yards separating the two lines, the 24th Michigan unleashed a devastating volley upon the Tarheels.

The superior numbers of the North Carolinians, however, began to overwhelm the 24th Michigan. Quickly stepping back to their second prepared line, the 24th looked to stem the onslaught as best they could. Corporal Charles Bellore, who had carried the 24th's colors since Sergeant Peck's death during the morning assault, was killed near the second line.

"NO MAN CAN TAKE THOSE COLORS AND LIVE"
Expired Image Removed
Battle Flag of the 26th North Carolina (The Museum of the Confederacy)
The battle between the 26th North Carolina and the 24th Michigan rapidly reached its climax. Standing toe to toe in the deep woods, the two proud regiments poured deadly fire into each other. Col. Burgwyn, yelling words of encouragement and praise, took up the 26th's colors and stepped forward. With the 26th's men reforming on their colonel and colors, Private Frank Honeycutt moved forward to take the flag from his colonel. As Burgwyn turned to hand the flag to Honeycutt the boy colonel was struck by a bullet to the chest. As Burgwyn fell to the forested floor he was momentarily held aloft within the folds of the battle flag that he so proudly held. Honeycutt would share his colonel's fate with a bullet to the head.

Lieutenant Colonel J.R. Lane, after checking on the mortally wounded Burgwyn, quickly assumed command of the regiment. "Close your men quickly to the left. I am going to give them the bayonet" he yelled. As the 26th North Carolina's men prepared for yet another charge, their flag lay on the ground in front. Lieutenant Blair of the 26th, seeing the prostrate flag and knowing its recent history, exclaimed, "no man can take those colors and live." Lane concurred, but picked up the flag nonetheless and yelled, "twenty-sixth, follow me."

Gotta go with the home team. I just hate the fact that unc adopted the nickname tarheels. 24th Michigan ranks high on my list of favorites too. Gotta respect a formidable opponent.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

MEWolf has done a magnificent amount of work and posted a most thorough history of Minnesota's extensive involvement during the Civil War. He made me proud to be a Minnesotan!

 

[Silverfox]

I'm glad this thread was started because I am very unknowledgeable about state regiments. The state I'm interested in is SC. I never hear any "great" regiments from that state. Are there any? Why not? If there are a couple what would they be?
Thanks.

The 2nd S.C. was placed with the 24th Georgia at the top of the hill at Fredericksburg behind the stone wall---It was very cold at night and the Union wounded were many and still on the field---A S.C. non-com by the name of Richard Kirkland gathered canteens and went over the wall to give water to the wounded Union soldiers---Very dangerous for him personally until the Union soldiers realized what he was doing. There is a statue there in his honor---He was later killed at Chickamauga.

 

[sflickinger]

And that was just before them western fellers found out what happens when the Virginians get their blood up. Sorry but I couldn't resist.

The lack of good generals early in the war was the cause of many a good man in the west falling. Grant took care of that, but it was such a waste.

 

[dvrmte]

Not to worry chattahooch, there can never be any mention of the Texas Brigade without the inclusion of the 18th Georgia and the 3rd Arkansas!

And don't forget about South Carolina's Hampton Legion, which was part after Seven Pines.

 

[matthew mckeon]

The 20th Maine won the entire Civil War on July 2nd, or so I'm told.

Great regiments had a combination of factors that gave them their reputations.

Good leaders. The 20th had Ames as CO, a tough West Pointer, then Chamberlain, instilling discipline and good battlefield leadership.
Motivation. The 54th was out to prove something.
Opportunity. The much maligned 11th Corps were placed in terrible positions, both at Chancellorsville and Gettysburg, really unwinnable situations. But the higher ups that put them there found it convenient to blame their defeats on inferior troops. Good regiments and gifted leaders could find their opportunity and exploit it.

 

[1950lemans]

deleted post

 

[cherokee reb]

...and they were tough.

any soldier in the civil war who made it to the end was tough

 

[CSA Today]

ENTER THE 26TH NORTH CAROLINA
Expired Image Removed
Portrait of Colonel Henry K. Burgwyn of the 26th North Carolina (Wikimedia)
With 843 soldiers, the 26th North Carolina was the largest regiment not only in Pettigrew's brigade of roughly 2,500, but the largest in either army at Gettysburg. Commanded by the "boy general", 21-year old Colonel Henry King Burgwyn, the officers of the 26th were anxious to enter the fight before the day was done. Finally, at 2:30pm, the 26th and the rest of Pettigrew's Brigade was ordered forward.

With Col. Burgwyn taking his place at the center of the regiment, J.B. Mansfield, the regimental color bearer stepped out in front of the line with the regiment's square battle flag. Eight other members of the 26th's color guard joined Mansfield at the front. "Forward! March!" came the order.

The 26th North Carolina maintained perfectly dressed lines as they descended into the wheatfield in front of Willougby's Run. Fortunately for the Tarheels, the Yankees opposing them fired high. The 26th paused to return fire and then made a dash for the tangled banks of Willoughby's Run.

While most of the regiment made it safely to the banks of Willoughby's Run, the 26th's color guard, always a tempting target, suffered much heavier losses. Four members of the 26th's color guard were killed or wounded before they even reached the stream. Private John Stamper grabbed the regiment's colors as they entered into the brush near the stream but fell before he made it across. Private George Washington Kelly next took up the battle flag. Leaping across the water, Kelly fell to the ground, hit by shrapnel in the leg. Kelly's friend, L.A. Thomas, picked the flag up and began to move up the hillside. Thomas, like so many before him, was hit shortly afterwords and handed the flag to John Vinson. Vinson, in turn, was promptly wounded and the flag was passed to John Marley who was quickly dispatched by a hissing bullet. A tenth, unnamed man, took his turn holding the colors. In just ten minutes the 26th North Carolina had used ten different color bearers.

The men of the 26th North Carolina soon "came on with rapid strides, yelling like demons." Up the steep bank they came. Waiting in the thick woods were the trained rifles of the 24th Michigan.

With Burgwyn's men crowding into the stream bottom, Col. Henry Morrow of the 24th ordered his men to hold their fire until the terrain allowed for a clear shot. The men of the 26th swarmed up the far bank and on towards the forested positions of the 24th Michigan. Now seeing the distinctive Hardee hats on the heads of the Michigan men, some of Burgwyn's men exclaimed, "here are those ****ed black hat fellows again." With barely 40 yards separating the two lines, the 24th Michigan unleashed a devastating volley upon the Tarheels.

The superior numbers of the North Carolinians, however, began to overwhelm the 24th Michigan. Quickly stepping back to their second prepared line, the 24th looked to stem the onslaught as best they could. Corporal Charles Bellore, who had carried the 24th's colors since Sergeant Peck's death during the morning assault, was killed near the second line.

"NO MAN CAN TAKE THOSE COLORS AND LIVE"
Expired Image Removed
Battle Flag of the 26th North Carolina (The Museum of the Confederacy)
The battle between the 26th North Carolina and the 24th Michigan rapidly reached its climax. Standing toe to toe in the deep woods, the two proud regiments poured deadly fire into each other. Col. Burgwyn, yelling words of encouragement and praise, took up the 26th's colors and stepped forward. With the 26th's men reforming on their colonel and colors, Private Frank Honeycutt moved forward to take the flag from his colonel. As Burgwyn turned to hand the flag to Honeycutt the boy colonel was struck by a bullet to the chest. As Burgwyn fell to the forested floor he was momentarily held aloft within the folds of the battle flag that he so proudly held. Honeycutt would share his colonel's fate with a bullet to the head.

Lieutenant Colonel J.R. Lane, after checking on the mortally wounded Burgwyn, quickly assumed command of the regiment. "Close your men quickly to the left. I am going to give them the bayonet" he yelled. As the 26th North Carolina's men prepared for yet another charge, their flag lay on the ground in front. Lieutenant Blair of the 26th, seeing the prostrate flag and knowing its recent history, exclaimed, "no man can take those colors and live." Lane concurred, but picked up the flag nonetheless and yelled, "twenty-sixth, follow me."

Gotta go with the home team. I just hate the fact that unc adopted the nickname tarheels. 24th Michigan ranks high on my list of favorites too. Gotta respect a formidable opponent.

The 26nd North Carolina was the largest regiment engaged at Gettysburg, but the 62nd Virginia (a 12 company regiment) with 1085 men was the largest at Gettysburg. The 62nd VA, was part of Imboden's command and guarded trains during battle and not engaged.

John W. Busey and David G. Martin, Regimental Strengths at Gettysburg, p.174 and p.200.

 

[Specster]

I can't help but be proud of the 1st Minnesota at Gettysburg, plugging the gap and charging without hesitation when Hancock ordered them to "Take that flag!"--Outnumbered 5:1, 82% of them fell. And after more research, the "new" state of Minnesota, per capita, raised an enormous number of troops that fought in the CW...

The Maine-iacs did themselves proud as well.

 

[Specster]

Your thoughts are seemingly a common theme in this thread- Western men were somehow "tougher". What made them tougher than their Eastern brethren?

I think living in newly and incompletely civilized land, eking out an existance by hunting and fishing, instead of buying food, protecting your family against attacks by humans and animals, just surviving tough winters, those things make you tougher - mentally and physically. When bad marksmanship leads to starvation, I think you learn to aim and reload pretty quickly.

I am not saying that there were no easterners under similar circumstances. I just think the land in that lakes region was not as yet tamed as it was in the east.

 

[John Hartwell]

What is the purpose of this thread? "My state's tougher than your state!"?
A man is a man, and every state turned out both more- and less- effective units ... depending largely on the "luck of the draw" as to what experiences they faced, and the quality of the officers under which they served. Especially general officers.
The record of any XVI Corps unit serving under Banks in Louisiana might seem pretty thin compare to one in the ANV under Lee. but, switch their positions, and the result might be very different.

 

[Pat Young]

One of the funny things about the attempts to give entire groups a "reputation" is that when examined the analysis rarely holds up. Many historians rank the II Corps as the best or one of the best corps in the Union army, at least from 1863 through mid-1864. I read Defeating Lee: A History of the Second Corps, Army of the Potomac by Lawrence Kreiser last year and he discusses the make-up of that famous corps. The largest group of soldiers in the Second came from New York. It was disproportionately urban, drawing from New York City, Philly and other urban centers, and disproportionately immigrant. It was sometimes referred to as the "Democratic Corps" because of its political character. No doubt future Democratic presidential candidate Winfield Scott Hancock felt comfortable politically.

Based on this we can conclude that the best Union soldiers tended to be urban working class men from the East Coast who voted against Lincoln, opposed abolition, and were foreign-born. 'Nuff said.

 

[Pat Young]

No one thinks I'm right?

 

[leftyhunter]

I think living in newly and incompletely civilized land, eking out an existance by hunting and fishing, instead of buying food, protecting your family against attacks by humans and animals, just surviving tough winters, those things make you tougher - mentally and physically. When bad marksmanship leads to starvation, I think you learn to aim and reload pretty quickly.

I am not saying that there were no easterners under similar circumstances. I just think the land in that lakes region was not as yet tamed as it was in the east.

I would think history has shown us over and over again it really does not matter where someone was born in terms of urban vs rural that makes a good soldier or not. has Pat states many immigrant men did just fine and few if any of the USCT troops handled a firearm prior to joining the USCT. If a man is physically fit and highly motivated he will make a good fighter. To make a great soldier would take hard tough training plus lots of nutritious food and competent commanders. In the CW its not easy to line all of that up . Motivation is the key although logitics and superior numbers make a huge difference.
Leftyhunter

 

[Pat Young]

I would think history has shown us over and over again it really does not matter where someone was born in terms of urban vs rural that makes a good soldier or not. has Pat states many immigrant men did just fine and few if any of the USCT troops handled a firearm prior to joining the USCT. If a man is physically fit and highly motivated he will make a good fighter. To make a great soldier would take hard tough training plus lots of nutritious food and competent commanders. In the CW its not easy to line all of that up . Motivation is the key although logitics and superior numbers make a huge difference.
Leftyhunter

Leadership?

 

[1SGDan]

5th New Hampshire set the standard for several fine units from the Granite State.

 

[Specster]

I would think history has shown us over and over again it really does not matter where someone was born in terms of urban vs rural that makes a good soldier or not. has Pat states many immigrant men did just fine and few if any of the USCT troops handled a firearm prior to joining the USCT. If a man is physically fit and highly motivated he will make a good fighter. To make a great soldier would take hard tough training plus lots of nutritious food and competent commanders. In the CW its not easy to line all of that up . Motivation is the key although logitics and superior numbers make a huge difference.
Leftyhunter

Perhaps now it makes less of a difference because urban people are likely to be more capable with technology as opposed to their back woods brethren. Look at the number in the ACW. I know people make the arguement that the south had better generals, traveled light and fast, had interior lines, yet, no less authorty than Shelby Foote basically states the southern warrior was more proficient than his Northern couterpart.

Look at Sgnt. York, WWI. He attributed much of his tactics to hunting in the backwoods....I dont think he was a Harvard man. I dont disagree with you that you can train a man to be a good soldier. But if a man has grown up surviving on his own (basically), you will not overcome that advantage with a few years of training.

Its like the prodegy who masters the piano at 10... he started at 3 and has spent 70% of his life fixated on this endevour.......it makes a difference. Maybe not so much now but 100 and more years ago and more it certainly did.

 

[18thVirginia]

Every state had Regiments that were stellar and every state had a few that were nothing short of an embarrasment. No one state can claim perfection because perfection doen't exist.

So, you've never been in Texas?

 

[leftyhunter]

Perhaps now it makes less of a difference because urban people are likely to be more capable with technology as opposed to their back woods brethren. Look at the number in the ACW. I know people make the arguement that the south had better generals, traveled light and fast, had interior lines, yet, no less authorty than Shelby Foote basically states the southern warrior was more proficient than his Northern couterpart.

Look at Sgnt. York, WWI. He attributed much of his tactics to hunting in the backwoods....I dont think he was a Harvard man. I dont disagree with you that you can train a man to be a good soldier. But if a man has grown up surviving on his own (basically), you will not overcome that advantage with a few years of training.

Its like the prodegy who masters the piano at 10... he started at 3 and has spent 70% of his life fixated on this endevour.......it makes a difference. Maybe not so much now but 100 and more years ago and more it certainly did.

I suppose the only way to measure the effectiveness of rural vs urban is if someone with a whole lot of time compared regiments Union and CSA raised with mostly urban recruits vs rural regiments. For example the 4th La CSA the famous Tigers where not composed of rural men on the whole nor was the "Rainbow Division of Ny if I recall correctly. I would wager overall its motivation,training, logistical support and leadership that makes the critical difference not rural vs urban.
Leftyhunter