Repro 1861 Springfield question

[amweiner]

Good morning, all.
I own a reproduction '61 Springfield and the hammer will not go to a proper half-cock. Its half-cock goes to roughly 45 degrees, but it will go to a full cock and I have fired it (not at events) with no difficulties.

What's the likely cause of this, and how could this be repaired?

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Adam

 

[Booner]

Good morning, all.
I own a reproduction '61 Springfield and the hammer will not go to a proper half-cock. Its half-cock goes to roughly 45 degrees, but it will go to a full cock and I have fired it (not at events) with no difficulties.

What's the likely cause of this, and how could this be repaired?

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Adam

If you would take the lock off and show us a picture of the lock it would be a great help.

 

[gary]

Worn or broken half cock notch? Check sear and sear spring. The V shape sear spring provides downward tension on the sear arm, causing the sear to rise.

It could also be the tumbler wasn't milled correctly (flush with lock plate). If offset, that could cause issues too.

Like Booner suggested, post some pictures. I'd like to see the lock at rest, the lock at full cock, a close up of the half cock notch.

 

[amweiner]

Thanks for your responses, @Booner and @gary. Unfortunately....my Springfield is in my sister's house in Michigan (I haven't shipped it out to California yet). I will see if I can walk her through the process of removing the lock without injuring either herself or the musket.

Thank you so much for your help!!
Adam

 

[gary]

Just tell her to remove the two screws and take a picture of the lock's inside with particular attention to the tumbler. Tell her its the quasi-circular object that the big V shaped spring hooks onto.

 

[amweiner]

Just tell her to remove the two screws and take a picture of the lock's inside with particular attention to the tumbler. Tell her its the quasi-circular object that the big V shaped spring hooks onto.

Got it, gary!! Thank you, especially for the clear directions!

Of course, with my sister involved, the potential of a finger-threatening accident is likely.

 

[gary]

Sorry, before we go further, please instruct your sister on the rules of safe firearms handling:

1) Always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Don't look down the bore, don't carelessly or playfully point it at anything.
2) Keep the finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
3) Always keep the firearm unloaded until ready to use.

To ensure that it is unloaded, have her remove the ramrod and drop the fat end down the bore. It should have a loud metallic clang. This tells her that it is empty. Only when assured that it is empty should she proceed, keeping those rules in mind, to remove the lock.

 

[amweiner]

ABSOLUTELY. It never hurts to remember safety rules. I've found that when someone gets impatient hearing these and pretends they know all about it, they are the ones likely to hurt themselves or someone else.

I was making a bad joke in my previous post about my sister's tendency to injure herself doing everyday things. I swear, she'd poke her eye out buttering toast if she wasn't properly supervised. Now that we mention it, my brother-in-law might be a safer choice for this task.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

I would like to add a couple of things, very gently and with respect, if I may. First, please do not ever put the "Fat End" of the ram rod down the bore when it is empty. The reason is because some of these arms have a smaller, or chambered breech, or even more common corrosion or fouling in the breech. If any of these conditions exist the ram rod WILL get stuck in the breech, and you really do not want to be in that situation. Secondly, in removing the lock have your sister place it on half cock first, that is the safety position. If the hammer is left down on the nipple she will have to wrench the lock out and damage to the wood is the least that can happen. Do not put it on full cock to remove the lock, either, as the potential for finger/hand injury is extremely high for the novice.
J.

 

[amweiner]

Thank you, @Jobe Holiday. I appreciate all of the great advice I am getting from the knowledgeable folks here.

 

[Craig L Barry]

The sear is sticking when you cock the piece and it is not engaging at half cock? It could be a variety of things even something as simple as the lock binding because the screws are over-tightened. Basically, the common culprits are as identified, the sear/sear spring and possibly the tumbler half cock notch is worn. Either way, is this something you feel you can repair yourself? Don't take this the wrong way but you needed guidance to remove the lock from the lock mortise. That suggests that you haven't been keeping up necessary lock maintenance on the musket. You want a diagnosis from looking at the pictures and then what are you going to do? I would say if it is more complicated than a simple cleaning and oil the moving parts, you should strongly consider sending it to a competent gunsmith.

 

[7thWisconsin]

It will go to full cock but half cock barely raises the hammer from the nipple? It could be made that way. Take the lock off and cock it by hand. If it will cycle through both, it's not the lock. You just may need to tighten or loosen the lock screws and tang screw.

 

[amweiner]

Don't take this the wrong way but you needed guidance to remove the lock from the lock mortise. That suggests that you haven't been keeping up necessary lock maintenance on the musket.

Hi Craig, no offense taken! I wasn't very clear in my original post, but the musket came this way when it was new. I have live fired it once in its lifetime, and it's received oil periodically but has not been fired - or even carried - for many, many years. I had been planning on using it for reenacting, but since it didn't do a proper half-cock it didn't pass safety inspection and I simply stored it. While I'm not 100% sure, I think my reenacting days are over, and so I was more curious about the cause - and a possible fix - more than anything else.

Thank you for the additional guidance. I am always open to learning!!
Adam

 

[amweiner]

It will go to full cock but half cock barely raises the hammer from the nipple? It could be made that way. Take the lock off and cock it by hand. If it will cycle through both, it's not the lock. You just may need to tighten or loosen the lock screws and tang screw.

Yep, that's how it came, @7thWisconsin...the hammer goes to roughly 45 degrees for a half-cock but will full cock properly. As I mentioned in my previous post, it functioned when I fired it, but would not pass muster for my reenacting unit, which was fine - I simply stored my Springfield and picked up a used Enfield.

 

[Craig L Barry]

The originals were designed that way. The safety (half cock) is barely off the nipple. And you know why right?

Let me get this straight...Are you saying that the half cock is too close to the nipple and it won't pass inspection or that it doesn't have or hold at half cock? Sounds like you have a Euroarms, which was a closer copy of the original design than the Armi Sport US 1861.

 

[amweiner]

The originals were designed that way. The safety (half cock) is barely off the nipple. And you know why right?

Let me get this straight...Are you saying that the half cock is too close to the nipple and it won't pass inspection or that it doesn't have or hold at half cock? Sounds like you have a Euroarms, which was a closer copy of the original design than the Armi Sport US 1861.

Really? No, I didn't know that's how the originals were designed and can only guess this was an added safety feature to prevent accidental discharges. I can imagine it helped protect the nipple a bit as well. Am I even in the ballpark, @Craig L Barry?

But that's it exactly - the musket holds the half-cock, but at a lesser angle than I'm used to on the Enfield (I presumed that all muskets were to half cock at about 90 degrees). But it definitely holds the half cock with no difficulties. I was told that the musket wouldn't pass safety inspection because it was expected by our organization that half cock would be a full 90 degrees.

Sorry if I'm rambling....trying to give as complete a description as I can without the benefit of photos. Thank you so much for your thoughts, and thank you to everyone who's posting to help suggest possible culprits.

Adam

 

[Jobe Holiday]

I'm beginning to suspect that you really do not have a problem, which would be a nice ending!
J.

 

[amweiner]

I'm beginning to suspect that you really do not have a problem, which would be a nice ending!
J.

It surely would, @Jobe Holiday! If that half cock is normal, that would be wonderful.

 

[Camp Randall Armory]

Are you able to put a cap on at half cock?

 

[Craig L Barry]

Really? No, I didn't know that's how the originals were designed and can only guess this was an added safety feature to prevent accidental discharges. I can imagine it helped protect the nipple a bit as well. Am I even in the ballpark, @Craig L Barry?

But that's it exactly - the musket holds the half-cock, but at a lesser angle than I'm used to on the Enfield (I presumed that all muskets were to half cock at about 90 degrees). But it definitely holds the half cock with no difficulties. I was told that the musket wouldn't pass safety inspection because it was expected by our organization that half cock would be a full 90 degrees.

Sorry if I'm rambling....trying to give as complete a description as I can without the benefit of photos. Thank you so much for your thoughts, and thank you to everyone who's posting to help suggest possible culprits.

Adam

Well, the US 1861 was purposely designed that way...with the half cock close to the top of the percussion cone...so that it could be capped at safety (half cock) and the troops marched into position loaded and ready to fire without the percussion cap falling off as it would be prone to do if the half cock was further back or at a greater angle, like the P53 Enfield, 1854 Austrian Lorenz, US 1842 and other designs.

This is just a lack of understanding on the part of your comrades in charge of inspection, which also doesn't surprise me. I had to explain this to the ranger during a FODO national battlefield park historic weapons demo when the ranger doing the inspection had the same objection. The "rules" state that the half cock has to be far enough off the percussion cone so you can cap the piece without coming to full cock, which is an understandable safety issue. US 1841 percussion (Mississippi) rifles are also this way, with the half cock very close to the percussion cone. They are designed this way. Cycle the lock on some originals.

I guess if they don't allow it, there is not much you can do, but it is a characteristic of the original US 1861, as well as the Euroarms and Pedersoli reproductions. The less accurate but more widely used Armi Sport US 1861, which bears little resemblance to the original in many ways, has the half cock quite a bit higher.