Remembering Vicksburg

[Tin cup]

I have always thought that way too much significance is placed on Gettysburg...

Vicksburg was the key.

We are at the anniversary of Vicksburg, and thought I would touch on one one of many aspects of the siege...
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HEADQUARTERS THIRD BRIGADE, STEVENSON'S DIVISION,​

July 1, 1863.​

GENERAL: I am in receipt of your communication, inclosing copy of a note from the lieutenant-general commanding, of this instant, in the former of which I am directed to give my opinion, as far as concerns my brigade, on several points raised in the latter.
As to the general fact that the troops of this brigade are in a condition of great physical debility and weakness, it needs but to see them in, or on their short beats to and from, the trenches, to be able to bear testimony to it.
Everything beyond this assertion of the general fact must, of course, be mere matter of opinion and conjecture. After much reflection upon the subject, based upon my own observations and the remarks, casual and incidental, of the regimental commanders, I would state the following as the conclusions at which I have arrived:
From shortness of rations, and greatly more from a confinement of forty-five days to the trenches, under the summer sun of a debilitating climate, few, if any, of the men are in their ordinary health and vigor.
I am disposed to believe that perhaps one in five of those now reported for "duty in the trenches" would, under different and favorable circumstances, be receiving medical treatment; and I have less hesitation in declaring it as my opinion that of this number, for "duty in the trenches," 50 per cent. would, on trial, be found unfit to encounter the fatigues incident to the life of the soldier in the field.
I am, general, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
A. CUMMING,

Brigadier-General.​

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The attachment is the Parole my GGUncle Alexander N. Thornton signed some days after the Capitulation of Pembererton's forces. Alexander was in Co. C, 39th Georgia, one of the folk that General Cumming was talking about in his note to the Lieutenant-General.

Anyone else have someone in their family background that was also there, (Confederate or Union) please feel free to post info about that person.
Respectfully:

Kevin Dally

 

[ccastellani]

What a great piece of family history! Unfortunately, I am assured by the saying, "The victor writes the history books." Vicksburg was indeed a key battle, but the "straw the broke the camels back" for Gen. Lee, what Gettysburg. Unforturnately, he lost too many men, and some of his key staff generals in that battle.

But, remembering Vicksburg, and all the battles of the War between the States, is key to our future of a nation.

Godspeed!

 

[Nathanb1]

Several very good historians have been working lately on books related to the Western Theatre, including Dr. Susannah Ural. She is finding, in the primary sources (thousands) she has been researching for several years, that many Southern men, even those who went through Gettysburg, were more upset about Vicksburg and the effects of its fall on the Confederacy than they were about Gettysburg. Vicksburg, in its way, is just as key to the Confederacy; the total loss of the Mississippi and communications across the river was as fatal as the fallout from Gettysburg. In addition, the success of Grant at Vicksburg brought his abilities to the forefront and put him in the East to oppose Lee.....

 

[Blessmag]

Have you read "The Most Glorious Fourth"? Goes back and forth between G'burg and V'burg. I will be there this October to see the Illinois memorial for one-wanna see may gr-gr-grandfather's name

 

[1SGDan]

Duane Schultz "The Most Glorious Fourth" is an excellent primer on both Gettysburg and Vicksburg. I absolutley enjoyed it although it lacks the many fine details that most hard core ACW fans appreciate. I must agree that the collapse in the west was a real disaster for the Confederacy.

 

[RobertP]

Kevin, my great grandfather was a Sgt. in Co. G, 36th Miss., at Vicksburg. He told his daughter, my grandmother, that near the end their rations were 3 teaspoons of peas and one of sugar per day. He was paroled and exchanged, and rejoined the 36th for the Atlanta and Nashville campaigns. There just wasn't much quit in those people.

 

[Blessmag]

Kevin, my great grandfather was a Sgt. in Co. G, 36th Miss., at Vicksburg. He told his daughter, my grandmother, that near the end their rations were 3 teaspoons of peas and one of sugar per day. He was paroled and exchanged, and rejoined the 36th for the Atlanta and Nashville campaigns. There just wasn't much quit in those people.

From my reading, the peas were ground up into flour. Pretty much indigestable. I pcture black eyed peas.

 

[ole]

In the last days, no Johnny ate well unless he could "purchase" a chicken or a cupful of flour. I have seen (unverified) that Rebs in Petersburg were on 1/8 rations. When you figure that a full ration is only close to maintaining strength, you can imagine what 1/8 of that would be ... not even a snack.

A snack every day and even Larry would lose weight.

If Petersburg was that bad with a railroad running into it, imagine how it must have been in Vicksburg with no contact with the outside world. And Vicksburg still had many of its civilians.

 

[brass napoleon]

I have always thought that way too much significance is placed on Gettysburg...

Vicksburg was the key.

Couldn't agree more. With Vicksburg taken the underbelly of the Confederacy was exposed, and no time was lost in exploiting it. When you get right down to it, Gettysburg really didn't change anything. What changed things in the East was Grant coming there. And Grant would never have made it there if he hadn't first reduced Vicksburg.

 

[bama46]

From my reading, the peas were ground up into flour. Pretty much indigestable. I pcture black eyed peas.

They were blackeyed peas. The animals save the horses, had long since been consumed, on the civilian menu was dressed rat. don't know if the soldiers ate them or not, I expect they did. Newspaper was printed on the backside of stripped off the walls, wallpaper.
Vicksburg is a facinating place from the seige lines to the trench lines, the caves (none on NPS land) the lives of the civilians, the incredible amount of schrapnel that is still around. A great little town that I enjoy going to see.

I have read that the term "mess" originated at Vicksburg.. i.e. mess hall, mess sergeant, mess of fish, etc

 

[Nathanb1]

They were blackeyed peas. The animals save the horses, had long since been consumed, on the civilian menu was dressed rat. don't know if the soldiers ate them or not, I expect they did. Newspaper was printed on the backside of stripped off the walls, wallpaper.
Vicksburg is a facinating place from the seige lines to the trench lines, the caves (none on NPS land) the lives of the civilians, the incredible amount of schrapnel that is still around. A great little town that I enjoy going to see.

I have read that the term "mess" originated at Vicksburg.. i.e. mess hall, mess sergeant, mess of fish, etc

Rats as long as there were some. I have read that cats, dogs and rats became quite scarce toward the end.

 

[bama46]

Rats as long as there were some. I have read that cats, dogs and rats became quite scarce toward the end.

that's my understanding as well. Horses were spared because they were needed to move guns

It was WW2 before there were paved roads in the area and until the town of Vicksburg again celebrated the 4th of July.

 

[Elennsar]

Couldn't agree more. With Vicksburg taken the underbelly of the Confederacy was exposed, and no time was lost in exploiting it. When you get right down to it, Gettysburg really didn't change anything. What changed things in the East was Grant coming there. And Grant would never have made it there if he hadn't first reduced Vicksburg.

Gettysburg defeated the last or second to last chance for the Confederacy to change things (in its favor) before it was too late. That has to count as something other than just a waste of lives.

 

[Blessmag]

Rats as long as there were some. I have read that cats, dogs and rats became quite scarce toward the end.

For you cat lovers

 

[brass napoleon]

Gettysburg defeated the last or second to last chance for the Confederacy to change things (in its favor) before it was too late. That has to count as something other than just a waste of lives.

Certainly if Lee had won at Gettysburg it would have changed everything, so it definitely wasn't a waste of lives. But since Lee lost the story continued unchanged - the hometeam always won. And even though the ANV was bled down pretty bad, I don't see any indication that the story was about to change... until Grant came along.

 

[RobertP]

They were blackeyed peas. The animals save the horses, had long since been consumed, on the civilian menu was dressed rat. don't know if the soldiers ate them or not, I expect they did. Newspaper was printed on the backside of stripped off the walls, wallpaper.

Too bad they weren't Purple Hulls or Crowders. I picked and shelled a mess of both from the garden at our old home place in Louisiana last weekend. I could survive for a while on that!

I have a copy of that last newspaper edition printed on wallpaper but suspect that it is a reproduction. They made a lot of those to sell as souvenirs after the War. I also have a beautiful color brochure/map titled 'National Peace Jubilee, Vicksburg National Military Park, October 13-16, 1915.' It was in my ggrandfather's things so I'm sure he must have attended (only lived 50 miles away). Interestingly, it depicts the 3 large observation towers in the park, one of which I remember as a kid. It has since been razed.

 

[Blessmag]

`The men of the 61st ate quite well during the siege of Vicksburg. Corn was already ripe enough to eat during this time of the year in Mississippi, and it made a splendid supplement to the standard army ration. The favorite method of cooking was to roast it in the shuck. This was accomplished by caking the shuck with mud and covering it with hot coals; when the shuck was burned down to its last layer, it was generally done.
Blackberries were also plentiful, especially in this region.

Glimpses of Glory p.55-56

As was the case at Shiloh, so it was at Vicksburg with the return of diarrhea and malaria. Several deaths in the 61st were attributed to these factors primarily because of moving, once again, into a new environment with poor water sources. Eventually, the entire force was to drink water only from the Yazoo River and then only after it had been boiled. Many men obviously did not adhere to this advice and suffered the consequences. The sickness of the soldiers becomes quite serious while in Mississippi. A month later the regiment was transferred to Arkansas; in one company alone, half the soldiers including the commander would have to be sent to a convalescent camp in Helena Arkansas.

Glimpses of Glory p. 56


From a regimental history, 61st Ill. Both quotes show food and sickness.

 

[Blessmag]

St Paul, MN Sept 29, 1863
His Excellency , Governor Swift,
The service required of the regiment during the campaign of the past summer has been of the severest character, which, in connection with the unfavorable localities it has occupied, has had a fearful effect upon the health of the men, reducing its effective strength from near 500, which it mustered for duty in April last, to less than 200 efficient men at the present time.
The aggregate upon the rolls of the regiment is a little in excess of 450 men. Of this number less than 300 are present, the balance being mostly absent, sick in hospitals, or on furlough. Some 60 of the absent are on detached service, though a large proportion of them are known to be sick in hospitals and in the camps of the commands with which they have been on duty.
Of the 300 present about 125 are reported for duty, about 50 on extra and daily duty, the balance being sick in the regimental hospital and the quarters of the different companies. Most of those at present sick are prostrated with fevers and chronic diarrhea, and will, under the most favorable circumstances, be unable to resume their military duties for several months. In the event of the regiment's embarking on another campaign, most of these cases would of necessity be sent to the general hospital.
L.F. Hubbard
Colonel, Fifth Minnesota Infantry

Minnesota in the Civil and Indian Wars 1861-1865 Volume 2 Official Reports and Correspondence St. Paul MN 1893. pp 365-366.

And another piece showing relative health of a Minnesota regiment

 

[bama46]

Too bad they weren't Purple Hulls or Crowders. I picked and shelled a mess of both from the garden at our old home place in Louisiana last weekend. I could survive for a while on that!

I have a copy of that last newspaper edition printed on wallpaper but suspect that it is a reproduction. They made a lot of those to sell as souvenirs after the War. I also have a beautiful color brochure/map titled 'National Peace Jubilee, Vicksburg National Military Park, October 13-16, 1915.' It was in my ggrandfather's things so I'm sure he must have attended (only lived 50 miles away). Interestingly, it depicts the 3 large observation towers in the park, one of which I remember as a kid. It has since been razed.

I like blackeyes, adore purple hulls and will tolerate crowders...
I too could survive on peas, so long as they came with okra and some greens

 

[Nathanb1]

I'm pretty sure I couldn't live on 3 spoonfuls of peas per day, even though they're one of my favorite foods!