Lincoln Reconsidering Halleck?

[tony_gunter]

I have not done a lot of reading of Halleck. But based on what I do know, I think Halleck was cautious early on and wasn't sure if Grant was trustworthy in his plans, such as Henry and Donnelson, which I think is completely understandable. Eventually, he learned that he could trust Grant. Everything I do remember reading, Halleck's expertise at the administrative level was very much needed. No, maybe not a great theater general, but the army needs individuals in different positions. I really don't see the Halleck-Grant relationship as anything more or less than learning how to work together, just as any management position.

But I know @tony_gunter prefers the extreme position if it doesn't instill Grant as the next messiah.

Use your big boy words to express disagreement instead of attacking me personally.

How were Grant and Sherman responsible for Chickasaw Bayou if they were ordered by Halleck to undertake it, when they both preferred to aim for Jackson instead?

 

[huskerblitz]

Use your big boy words to express disagreement instead of attacking me personally.

Just joshing you, Tony. I thought you'd recognize that from the emoji.

 

[rbasin]

If it wasn't for Halleck, there would be no Grant.

Or Sherman. Or Sheridan

 

[rbasin]

Halleck (or Thomas) is my favorite northern general.

 

[JerryD]

Halleck (or Thomas) is my favorite northern general.

Can you elaborate? What about Halleck do you like? And what biographies would you recommend that present a balanced approach?

 

[Belfoured]

I have not done a lot of reading of Halleck. But based on what I do know, I think Halleck was cautious early on and wasn't sure if Grant was trustworthy in his plans, such as Henry and Donnelson, which I think is completely understandable. Eventually, he learned that he could trust Grant. Everything I do remember reading, Halleck's expertise at the administrative level was very much needed. No, maybe not a great theater general, but the army needs individuals in different positions. I really don't see the Halleck-Grant relationship as anything more or less than learning how to work together, just as any management position.

But I know @tony_gunter prefers the extreme position if it doesn't instill Grant as the next messiah.

On a related point, Halleck is one of two prominent Civil War figures whose skills and talents IMHO were top rank for C of Staff/planning/administrative duties but who was not well suited for field command. His field experience was pretty much limited to very minor activities against small, weak units during the Mexican War in what today is Baja California. Ironically, his colleague (and at the time friend) in those activities was one "Cump" Sherman. I don't think Halleck had the requisite dose of calculated audacity or the flexibility/adaptability required for field command. His major accomplishments had been in the realms of engineering and law. That's part of what I take into account in evaluating him.

 

[huskerblitz]

On a related point, Halleck is one of two prominent Civil War figures whose skills and talents IMHO were top rank for C of Staff/planning/administrative duties but who was not well suited for field command. His field experience was pretty much limited to very minor activities against small, weak units during the Mexican War in what today is Baja California. Ironically, his colleague (and at the time friend) in those activities was one "Cump" Sherman. I don't think Halleck had the requisite dose of calculated audacity or the flexibility/adaptability required for field command. His major accomplishments had been in the realms of engineering and law. That's part of what I take into account in evaluating him.

I agree. I know some want to look at Halleck as a foil to Grant (looking at you, again @tony_gunter ) but I think it was more of a matter of trying to do one's job while learning on the job in a very unique type of war. These men were human, with human emotions and human failings. But ultimately they were all trying to do the right thing they best they knew how.

 

[wausaubob]

On a related point, Halleck is one of two prominent Civil War figures whose skills and talents IMHO were top rank for C of Staff/planning/administrative duties but who was not well suited for field command. His field experience was pretty much limited to very minor activities against small, weak units during the Mexican War in what today is Baja California. Ironically, his colleague (and at the time friend) in those activities was one "Cump" Sherman. I don't think Halleck had the requisite dose of calculated audacity or the flexibility/adaptability required for field command. His major accomplishments had been in the realms of engineering and law. That's part of what I take into account in evaluating him.

At some point in 1862 Halleck became more concerned about his chances of promotion than about winning the Civil War. That cautious approach spread when Halleck came east. But it was an enormous effort to get the President to stop running the army like it was the post office, and let promotion be based on results. I don't think Halleck understood tactics or operations. But he did understand what McCallum was writing about how to run a complex national bureaucracy.

 

[tony_gunter]

I agree. I know some want to look at Halleck as a foil to Grant (looking at you, again @tony_gunter ) but I think it was more of a matter of trying to do one's job while learning on the job in a very unique type of war. These men were human, with human emotions and human failings. But ultimately they were all trying to do the right thing they best they knew how.

You're the one trying to turn this into a Halleck vs Grant thing. But you're forgetting that Halleck was busy mismanaging East Tennessee and the Trans-Mississippi too.

Halleck had a dream team out west with Curtis, Grant, Sherman, Thomas, and Rosecrans and in the five months after occupying Pittsburg Landing somehow only managed to parlay that into a bloody battle at Shiloh, the capture of Helena, the occupation of Memphis, and a month long slog into Corinth.

It's ironic that Halleck is often labeled as a first-rate clerk, when most of the contention with Grant and Curtis could have been resolved by Halleck actually reading their dispatches.