Rarely Cited Thaddeus Stevens Quote

[Philip Leigh]

Five months after the Emancipation Proclamation, Pennsylvania Congressman Thaddeus Stevens - who later became a prime architect of Civil War Reconstruction - wrote his nephew and admitted to hoping that the slaves would be "incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real war."*

* The Selected Papers of Thaddeus Stevens Pittsburg University Press, 1997

 

[rpkennedy]

Five months after the Emancipation Proclamation, Pennsylvania Congressman Thaddeus Stevens - who later became a prime architect of Civil War Reconstruction - wrote his nephew and admitted to hoping that the slaves would be "incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real war."*

* The Selected Papers of Thaddeus Stevens Pittsburg University Press, 1997

Any student of Thaddeus Stevens would not be surprised by that statement.

R

 

[Philip Leigh]

Any student of Thaddeus Stevens would not be surprised by that statement.

R

Great.

I've submitted a paper documenting that a number of prominent Northerners were either hopeful that the Emancipation Proclamation would provoke a slave rebellion or were willing to knowingly run the risk that it might. Thus, I see we agree on at least one name.

 

[brass napoleon]

Five months after the Emancipation Proclamation, Pennsylvania Congressman Thaddeus Stevens - who later became a prime architect of Civil War Reconstruction - wrote his nephew and admitted to hoping that the slaves would be "incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real war."*

* The Selected Papers of Thaddeus Stevens Pittsburg University Press, 1997

Can you provide us with more of the quote please, so we can see it in its original context? Did he actually use the word "hoping", or is that your word (or somebody else's)? Did he also say that this was a goal of the Emancipation Proclamation, or is that your analysis (or someone else's)?

 

[Philip Leigh]

Can you provide us with more of the quote please, so we can see it in its original context? Did he actually use the word "hoping", or is that your word (or somebody else's)? Did he also say that this was a goal of the Emancipation Proclamation, or is that your analysis (or someone else's)?

I don't have the original source in my possession presently, but you can find the reference almost precisely as I worded it in Allen Guelzo's Lincoln's Emancipation and Michael Burlingame's multivolume bio on Lincoln, among other places.

Guelzo puts it this way: "Thaddeus Stevens hoped that the slaves would be "incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real civil war…"

 

[brass napoleon]

Well, with all due respect to Guelzo, I'd like to see what Stevens said himself, in his own words. I do note, however, that even the Guelzo quote you gave us says nothing about the Emancipation Proclamation.

 

[Philip Leigh]

I don't have the original source in my possession presently, but you can find the reference almost precisely as I worded it in Allen Guelzo's Lincoln's Emancipation and Michael Burlingame's multivolume bio on Lincoln, among other places.

Guelzo puts it this way: "Thaddeus Stevens hoped that the slaves would be "incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real civil war…"

Good grief. It's on page 158 of Guelzo's book on the Emancipation Proclamation. Look it up.

 

[James B White]

It seems that most writers truncate the quote just that way, so one would need to go to the original souce to get the context. Best I could find online was this from http://www.civilwarconnect.com/2013/05/fire-on-the-mountain.html :

Two weeks later, [near as I can tell, that would be two weeks after May 22, 1863] safe in Lancaster, Stevens again wrote to his nephew that, "We are still unlucky in this war - which ought to have been ended by this time." That war, now dragging into its third bloody summer could be solved. "The slaves," Stevens astutely noted, "ought to be incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real civil war."

That puts a different twist on it. The Emancipation Proclamation was old news by May, and he could be saying that the slaves ought to be incited to resurrection by some unspecified unrelated action now or in the future, and it's not really clear whether he means it as a serious suggestion or an exclamation of frustration. One really needs to see the whole context to figure it out.

 

[James B White]

Good grief. It's on page 158 of Guelzo's book on the Emancipation Proclamation. Look it up.

There's no more context, though the word "civil" is added to the quote, or missing from other sources. Here it is from that book: "Thaddeus Stevens hoped that the slaves would be 'incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real civil war.' "

The book is online and though that page is not shown in full, the quote shows up in a snippet here and it seems clear that it's presented in isolation, moving on to other things before and after.

 

[Philip Leigh]

It seems that most writers truncate the quote just that way, so one would need to go to the original souce to get the context. Best I could find online was this from http://www.civilwarconnect.com/2013/05/fire-on-the-mountain.html :

Two weeks later, [near as I can tell, that would be two weeks after May 22, 1863] safe in Lancaster, Stevens again wrote to his nephew that, "We are still unlucky in this war - which ought to have been ended by this time." That war, now dragging into its third bloody summer could be solved. "The slaves," Stevens astutely noted, "ought to be incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real civil war."

That puts a different twist on it. The Emancipation Proclamation was old news by May, and he could be saying that the slaves ought to be incited to resurrection by some unspecified unrelated action now or in the future, and it's not really clear whether he means it as a serious suggestion or an exclamation of frustration. One really needs to see the whole context to figure it out.

The first six words of my original post are "Five months after the Emancipation Proclamation..."

Provided below is Michael Burlingame's take on it, which also shows that a number of prominent Yankees (as well as Europeans) had misgivings that the EP would provoke a slave rebellion.

https://books.google.com/books?id=UrCBLHGyM3sC&pg=PT550&lpg=PT550&dq=Thaddeus+Stevens+%22incited+to+insurrection+and+give+the+rebels+a+taste+of+real+civil+war."&source=bl&ots=B3hR5HEeXD&sig=HhTwUVYxMAz0WtW_Lei2d9MjZrw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIgKDQprmLxwIVBBoeCh3_HwS7#v=onepage&q=Thaddeus%20Stevens%20%22incited%20to%20insurrection%20and%20give%20the%20rebels%20a%20taste%20of%20real%20civil%20war."&f=false

 

[Henry Whitworth]

Admitted that he hoped the slaves would rise up against the people holding them in bondage, the same people against whom he was at war? Er, why is that "admitting" to something? As the war becomes more defined as a fight against slavery and as the coffins keep rolling home, it actually seems like a reasonable thing to hope for. I'm often amazed at how "civil" so many people remained after so much bloodshed.

 

[rpkennedy]

The first six words of my original post are "Five months after the Emancipation Proclamation..."

But those words connect the quote to the EP when, in context, the statement had nothing to do with the EP.

R

 

[Philip Leigh]

But those words connect the quote to the EP when, in context, the statement had nothing to do with the EP.

R

That is your interpretation. Michael Burlingame disagrees.

https://books.google.com/books?id=UrCBLHGyM3sC&pg=PT550&lpg=PT550&dq=Thaddeus+Stevens+%22incited+to+insurrection+and+give+the+rebels+a+taste+of+real+civil+war."&source=bl&ots=B3hR5HEeXD&sig=HhTwUVYxMAz0WtW_Lei2d9MjZrw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIgKDQprmLxwIVBBoeCh3_HwS7#v=onepage&q=Thaddeus%20Stevens%20%22incited%20to%20insurrection%20and%20give%20the%20rebels%20a%20taste%20of%20real%20civil%20war."&f=false

 

[rpkennedy]

That is your interpretation. Michael Burlingame disagrees.

https://books.google.com/books?id=UrCBLHGyM3sC&pg=PT550&lpg=PT550&dq=Thaddeus+Stevens+%22incited+to+insurrection+and+give+the+rebels+a+taste+of+real+civil+war."&source=bl&ots=B3hR5HEeXD&sig=HhTwUVYxMAz0WtW_Lei2d9MjZrw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIgKDQprmLxwIVBBoeCh3_HwS7#v=onepage&q=Thaddeus%20Stevens%20%22incited%20to%20insurrection%20and%20give%20the%20rebels%20a%20taste%20of%20real%20civil%20war."&f=false

If he's referring to the text that James cited above, his interpretation is incorrect as well. It was written months after the EP went into effect and was written to his nephew, expressing frustration with how the war was going. Unless there is more to the quote, it has no real connection to the EP.

R

 

[James B White]

Oddly, Burlingame cuts the quote down in the same way as most others. When I see that, it really gets my spidey sense tingling, because it can be a sign that nobody is looking at the actual thing in context, but just copying each other.

There's no doubt a whole bunch of southerners thought the EP would lead to insurrection, and I wouldn't be surprised if some northerners did too, but this quote needs more context.

Alas, the full letter in his collected papers only seems to be in a snippet view, but it says "you I will do it with pleasure — We are still unlucky in this war — which ought to have been ended by this time — The slaves ought to be incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real civil war — Yr Uncle Thaddeus Stevens Capt."

If he's talking about the EP, is he expecting a delayed reaction? It seems he's saying they ought to be now or in the future. I'd like to see where he mentions the EP in the letter.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Obviously the EP was not inciting the slaves to revolt. That's why he's complaining. I wonder if he actually took practical, real world steps to incite the slaves to the (shudder) horrors of "servile insurrection. I wonder if anyone could name three.

 

[brass napoleon]

It seems that most writers truncate the quote just that way, so one would need to go to the original souce to get the context. Best I could find online was this from http://www.civilwarconnect.com/2013/05/fire-on-the-mountain.html :

Two weeks later, [near as I can tell, that would be two weeks after May 22, 1863] safe in Lancaster, Stevens again wrote to his nephew that, "We are still unlucky in this war - which ought to have been ended by this time." That war, now dragging into its third bloody summer could be solved. "The slaves," Stevens astutely noted, "ought to be incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real civil war."

That puts a different twist on it. The Emancipation Proclamation was old news by May, and he could be saying that the slaves ought to be incited to resurrection by some unspecified unrelated action now or in the future, and it's not really clear whether he means it as a serious suggestion or an exclamation of frustration. One really needs to see the whole context to figure it out.

Indeed. And if the above quote is correct, then it's also clear that the word "hoping" is an inaccurate paraphrase. Far from "hoping" that the slaves will be incited to insurrection, Stevens seems to be lamenting that they have not been.

 

[ole]

I believe Stevens' quote shows exasperation over the way the war was going.

And, heck, Lincoln agonized for months over his draft of the EP fearing that it might cause slave rebellion.

 

[cash]

There's no more context, though the word "civil" is added to the quote, or missing from other sources. Here it is from that book: "Thaddeus Stevens hoped that the slaves would be 'incited to insurrection and give the rebels a taste of real civil war.' "

The book is online and though that page is not shown in full, the quote shows up in a snippet here and it seems clear that it's presented in isolation, moving on to other things before and after.

Here you are, James:

https://books.google.com/books?id=f...d give the rebels a taste of real war&f=false

 

[cash]

Here's all we get from the Selected Papers:

As folks have said, this is not what was claimed by the two historians. This gives a whole new meaning. Instead of hoping the EP would incite a rebellion, he is saying a rebellion ought to be incited.