Rare book buyers, beware

[khalleron]

I don't know if this is the proper forum for this - if it's not, mods, feel free to move it.

I recently needed to purchase a set of the 'Tennessee Civil War Veterans Questionnaires' for my researches. I looked on Amazon, and purchased a set at the lowest price listed. A few days later the order was cancelled by the seller without explanation.

Somewhat peeved, I ordered from another seller at the same price - more than a week after that, the order was cancelled by the seller, again without explanation.

I then went on Amazon again, only to discover that the seller I had originally ordered from had relisted the same set at a higher price!

Totally irate now, I contacted Amazon customer service, who began an 'investigation' - but that still didn't get me my books.

The first seller was 'internationalbooks' who also does business on other sites under the name Pro Quo Books. The second seller (who I suspect is the same as the first seller) went under the name 'alibris'.

A bit of poking around on the Internet revealed that this is not unusual behavior for Pro Quo - there are several complaints about this sort of behavior on sites such as RipoffReport.

I placed a third order with Josie Brooks, dba 'thebooke' - told her my tale of woe, and even though she was leaving that day on vacation, managed to get them in the mail within an hour of my order.

So if you're in the market for something historical and rare, avoid Pro Quo (under whatever name they're using that week). Buy from Josie, if you can. She's aces.

 

[Littlestown]

Thanks for the warning.

 

[TerryB]

I hope you know to take what the men wrote in those surveys with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Lnwlf]

I have had many dealings with the central book seller Alibris, and I have never had a single issue with them. They are much like Amazon with independent sellers that deal through them as well as selling under there own name. My suggestion for all is to check buyer feedback on the actual seller of the book. A big clearing house for books cant afford to have bad publicity so the bad ones usually disapear shortly.

 

[khalleron]

I hope you know to take what the men wrote in those surveys with a huge grain of salt.

Not with any more salt than I would take the OR.

Or do you believe that the soldiers' point of view is less important than the officers'?

 

[johan_steele]

IIRC there was something like 40 years seperation from the war when those were taken; though I may be way off and thinking of another set of questionarres. Most were done closer to 1900 than 1865.

 

[khalleron]

They were done in 1915 and 1922, so yes, up to 60 years later. They're also heavily weighted toward the Confederate side - probably 10 times as many Confederate soldiers as Union, whereas the actual ratio in the war was closer to 2 to 1.

If someone were using these as the only source of information, I can see the warning to be careful, but put in context they provide some insights and information that can't be found anywhere else.

But they also deserve far more than 'a grain of salt'.

 

[Nathanb1]

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Terry was just suggesting what you're planning--to research and use these as one more piece of the puzzle or something to point you in the right direction....not the be-all, end-all answer! Questionnaires are only as good as the questions and as those filling them out! (Somehow I think one my great-grandpa Dickens filled out might be verrrrrryyyy interesting, if you get my point). Unfortunately, too many times these types of documents become someone's basis for research, and then you get into a rat's nest!

 

[TerryB]

Not with any more salt than I would take the OR.

Or do you believe that the soldiers' point of view is less important than the officers'?

Point well taken re the OR. I will just add that of the few 1890s material I've read, a check of the soldier's records, in at least some cases, was at considerable variance with the answers to the survey. Some of that is faulty memory I'm sure, but much of it is padding the resume. So it's a piece of the puzzle, but not the whole picture.

[edit] I'd have to check, but I believe the questions in Tennessee were sent out in the 1890s. That's not too far after the events, but it coincided with efforts on the part of veterans to apply for pensions. If you deserted or took the oath before Lee surrendered, you could not get a pension. This is one of the sticking points I've noticed with the survey.

 

[Ellsworth avenger]

OhOH! Recently linked up with Amazon through the thread Northern Motives for the War and purchased 1962 hardcover edition of Ralph A Wooster's The Secession Conventions of the South from International books, Md. The money is out of the account $152.00,they e-mailed that it was shipped on the 23rd of July. On seeing this thread I went back to the link, and the book, using the same picture is now listed at $298.00. This doesn't look good! I'll be extremely disappointed ,excited about the purchase,then I'll be extremely p****d. Any advice.

 

[16thVA]

OhOH! Recently linked up with Amazon through the thread Northern Motives for the War and purchased 1962 hardcover edition of Ralph A Wooster's The Secession Conventions of the South from International books, Md. The money is out of the account $152.00,they e-mailed that it was shipped on the 23rd of July. On seeing this thread I went back to the link, and the book, using the same picture is now listed at $298.00. This doesn't look good! I'll be extremely disappointed ,excited about the purchase,then I'll be extremely p****d. Any advice.

I wouldn't worry, I think Amazon guarantees delivery if you order through them, and any bookseller who sends a book like that without tracking or insurance is incompetent. If you didn't pay for Priority mail, it will come media mail and that takes a month to 6 weeks for Alaska and Hawaii.

There are some dealers who don't actually have the books and they do something called "drop-shipping", meaning you order the book for $30, and they order it from another dealer for $10-15 and have it sent to you. Sometimes the other dealer has sold their cheap copy so the original order is cancelled. Amazon is not always the best place to order old or out-of-print rarities but they are great for new books. Check out Alibris and Abebooks.com, but keep in mind that some of those drop-shippers also have listings on Abebooks.com. I don't think Alibris allows that.

 

[Ellsworth avenger]

I wouldn't worry, I think Amazon guarantees delivery if you order through them, and any bookseller who sends a book like that without tracking or insurance is incompetent. If you didn't pay for Priority mail, it will come media mail and that takes a month to 6 weeks for Alaska and Hawaii.

There are some dealers who don't actually have the books and they do something called "drop-shipping", meaning you order the book for $30, and they order it from another dealer for $10-15 and have it sent to you. Sometimes the other dealer has sold their cheap copy so the original order is cancelled. Amazon is not always the best place to order old or out-of-print rarities but they are great for new books. Check out Alibris and Abebooks.com, but keep in mind that some of those drop-shippers also have listings on Abebooks.com. I don't think Alibris allows that.

Thanks for the post. I usually buy my out- of- print rarities at auction,but the gang and I thought this book would improve our knowledge of an oft discussed topic. We will see what happens.

 

[gary]

Alibris is a listing agent, not an individual bookseller/entity/store.

 

[Ellsworth avenger]

False Alarm on my purchase ,the Mrs. says the book arrived today.

 

[16thVA]

False Alarm on my purchase ,the Mrs. says the book arrived today.

Good. I used that book at the Free Library here in Philly. If you are interested in the Virginia Convention the Library of Virginia put online the complete debates as well as a shootload of other information.

http://collections.richmond.edu/secession/

 

[khalleron]

He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Terry was just suggesting what you're planning--to research and use these as one more piece of the puzzle or something to point you in the right direction....not the be-all, end-all answer! Questionnaires are only as good as the questions and as those filling them out! (Somehow I think one my great-grandpa Dickens filled out might be verrrrrryyyy interesting, if you get my point). Unfortunately, too many times these types of documents become someone's basis for research, and then you get into a rat's nest!

I absolutely agree with that - these are to aid my research, not constitute it.

Unfortunately, there's very little info about my gg-grandfather's Confederate regiment - I have to take my info where I find it.

And, yes, TerryB, I've looked through all the pertinent military records before looking at the Questionnaires.

I don't take *anything* as gospel - all records are made by human beings who have their own filters. As many sources as possible, that's my mantra.

 

[TerryB]

I absolutely agree with that - these are to aid my research, not constitute it.

Unfortunately, there's very little info about my gg-grandfather's Confederate regiment - I have to take my info where I find it.

And, yes, TerryB, I've looked through all the pertinent military records before looking at the Questionnaires.

I don't take *anything* as gospel - all records are made by human beings who have their own filters. As many sources as possible, that's my mantra.

I think my original remark failed to give you proper credit for knowing what you were doing. My bad.

 

[khalleron]

I think my original remark failed to give you proper credit for knowing what you were doing. My bad.

No problem - I'm sure with all the sloppiness we see in historical research, the caveat was well meant.

My background is in the hard sciences and I'm often appalled by what passes for research in the softer sciences and liberal arts. I'm pretty new to historical research, per se, but I carry my skepticism along with me.

 

[TerryB]

No problem - I'm sure with all the sloppiness we see in historical research, the caveat was well meant.

My background is in the hard sciences and I'm often appalled by what passes for research in the softer sciences and liberal arts. I'm pretty new to historical research, per se, but I carry my skepticism along with me.

As far as the soft sciences are concerned, I'm more and more convinced that the saying "All research is advocacy research" is more true than not.