Railroad capacity?

[rbasin]

Note how many RRs in the South went from nowhere to nowhere. How many changes would you have to make to get from Charleston to Memphis? In most of those stops, you'd have get off the train, traipse across town to get to the next train, but was that was equally true in the North.

The map is a bit misleading since there almost no bridges across the Mississippi at the time or the Ohio.

What is the date on this map, by the way?

Its from the University of Nebraska. http://railroads.unl.edu/

They are in the process of putting together a year by year expansion map system of the American Railroad system. They are using GIS systems and historical evidence to map railroads. Ran across this a little while back and thought the map was just an easy one to read. It does show how important Corinth, East Tennessee, and Atlanta were to the South.

If there are inaccuracies, I apologize.

 

[DaveBrt]

Its from the University of Nebraska. http://railroads.unl.edu/

They are in the process of putting together a year by year expansion map system of the American Railroad system. They are using GIS systems and historical evidence to map railroads. Ran across this a little while back and thought the map was just an easy one to read. It does show how important Corinth, East Tennessee, and Atlanta were to the South.

If there are inaccuracies, I apologize.

The date of the map data is January, 1861. The key is the status of the Mobile & Ohio RR

 

[DaveBrt]

That's a definite point in his favor. Not so thrilled with his less savvy understanding of Meade post-Gettysburg, however.

Going back to railroads and not men, one thing that strikes me - I suspect the data at least in part is on Bright's site, but I don't know it in any sort of complete fashion across the board: Rail weight. Rail at 35 pounds a yard can't handle the traffic rail at say, 55 pounds a yard can.

And judging by construction costs per mile, I'd wager that Southern railroads were generally lighter - which would mean that the heavy traffic of war would wear them out even faster on top of having less maintenance and less to replace worn out stuff with.

It's a dizzying spiral of failure.

No Southern road that mattered had less that 50# rail, except for a few miles of the Richmond & Danville R.

Yes, Southern RRs cost less to build than Northern ones -- and Southern RR builders were proud of the fact and boasted of it. They claimed it was cheaper because the cost of labor was less; the land was clay, rather than rock; the land was level; and construction materials (ties, timber, lumber, etc) were at hand. But the weight of the rails on most Southern RRs was about the same as on most Northern ones.

 

[Elennsar]

No Southern road that mattered had less that 50# rail, except for a few miles of the Richmond & Danville R.

How are you defining "that mattered"?

Yes, Southern RRs cost less to build than Northern ones -- and Southern RR builders were proud of the fact and boasted of it. They claimed it was cheaper because the cost of labor was less; the land was clay, rather than rock; the land was level; and construction materials (ties, timber, lumber, etc) were at hand. But the weight of the rails on most Southern RRs was about the same as on most Northern ones.

Is this detailed on your site? I don't want to question your research, just look into it for further reference.

 

[DaveBrt]

Note how many RRs in the South went from nowhere to nowhere. How many changes would you have to make to get from Charleston to Memphis? In most of those stops, you'd have get off the train, traipse across town to get to the next train, but was that was equally true in the North.

The map is a bit misleading since there almost no bridges across the Mississippi at the time or the Ohio.

What is the date on this map, by the way?

"How many RRs in the South went from nowhere to nowhere." Every railroad, north or south, had an ECONOMIC reason for being where it was. Southerners were not stupid when it came to laying out railroads and they were in the process of making the complete, long lines that they would so badly need during the war.

The city rail gaps existed at the start of the war, but were quickly filled. From Memphis to Charleston, there were no rail gaps in 1861.

 

[DaveBrt]

How are you defining "that mattered"?



Is this detailed on your site? I don't want to question your research, just look into it for further reference.

"Mattered" - the main lines from main city to main city and from major resource area to main city.

No, I have not detailed the cost of building the roads on my site, because the documents detailing such are usually from the mid- to late- 1850's and are not important during the war. To find such, look for annual reports for road that are still under construction -- the Presidents had to re-sell the job every few years to keep the money coming in and low cost of construction was a main point used. The other point used was the economic benefit of the road.

 

[Elennsar]

"Mattered" - the main lines from main city to main city and from major resource area to main city.

Gotcha. So this - for example: http://www.newriverva.com/Virginia_and_Tennessee_Railroad.php would be an example.

No, I have not detailed the cost of building the roads on my site, because the documents detailing such are usually from the mid- to late- 1850's and are not important during the war. To find such, look for annual reports for road that are still under construction -- the Presidents had to re-sell the job every few years to keep the money coming in and low cost of construction was a main point used. The other point used was the economic benefit of the road.

Makes sense.

 

[DaveBrt]

Gotcha. So this - for example: http://www.newriverva.com/Virginia_and_Tennessee_Railroad.php would be an example.



Makes sense.

Yes, V&T definitely qualified as "mattered." 206 miles of 60# T-rail, 5 miles of 56# T-rail, 10 miles of 50# T-rail

 

[Pat Answer]

Not a single mile of new track was built in the South during the war.

Greensboro NC to Danville VA in late 1863? Or does that not count because other roads were 'cannibalized' for it?

 

[DaveBrt]

Greensboro NC to Danville VA in late 1863? Or does that not count because other roads were 'cannibalized' for it?

rbasin should have said "not a mile of new rail was built." True, no new rail was cast in the South during the war. Some roads were built, but, as you pointed out, they were created by destroying other roads.

 

[Pat Answer]

rbasin should have said "not a mile of new rail was built." True, no new rail was cast in the South during the war. Some roads were built, but, as you pointed out, they were created by destroying other roads.

Thanks again. You've a mighty fine website there, sir, BTW.
How the respective governments were able to procure/requisition transport for major military moves is also interesting.

"It started as a minor [question]; the next thing I know, I'm tangling with [the railroad expertise of half the forum]!"

 

[rebelatsea]

And god have mercy if they come loose and someone doesn't deal with it before a train runs over it. Train wrecks are all kinds of bad news.

Strap rail coming up under a train was quite common even on northern railroads. They were known as "snakeheads" and would often makes themselves known when they came through the floor of the cars.

 

[Elennsar]

Strap rail coming up under a train was quite common even on northern railroads. They were known as "snakeheads" and would often makes themselves known when they came through the floor of the cars.

One of the many joys of traveling by train in the early days.

And by "joys" I mean "If it wasn't for the fact the alternatives were even worse, no one would have dared go by rail."

 

[DaveBrt]

Strap rail coming up under a train was quite common even on northern railroads. They were known as "snakeheads" and would often makes themselves known when they came through the floor of the cars.

John,

Snakeheads were a problem in the 1840's and early 1850's, but had almost vanished as the roads relaid their strap iron with T-rail. The only line of importance in the South that still had strap rail in the war was the Richmond & Danville RR, south of the junction with the South Side RR, and it was replacing the strap rail as fast as they could find T-rail.

 

[rbasin]

Greensboro NC to Danville VA in late 1863? Or does that not count because other roads were 'cannibalized' for it?

I think the story meant that no new rails were made.

 

[M E Wolf]

Before the military took over the Alexandria, Loudoun & Hampshire RR in northern Virginia, the entire route was 7 miles. Alexandria to Vienna. Haupt put in a turn-table and station which now is the 'recreation building' in Vienna.

Haupt and others did a good service by extending and improving rail, bridge and beds of these railroads to which the owners of the railroads benefited from.

Each of these railroads were independent of one another but, with the use of rails for troop transport it was evident that railroads would be vital to shipping goods beyond the confines of these original owners.

The 'bonus' out of the need for a Civil War, was the improvements that were from it. People were forced to travel outside their State whereas, they would have remained had the war never been fought.

Just a thought ---

...and opinions, observations and comments.

M. E. Wolf

 

[rebelatsea]

John,

Snakeheads were a problem in the 1840's and early 1850's, but had almost vanished as the roads relaid their strap iron with T-rail. The only line of importance in the South that still had strap rail in the war was the Richmond & Danville RR, south of the junction with the South Side RR, and it was replacing the strap rail as fast as they could find T-rail.

Thanks Dave, I've seen an illustration somewhere of it happening to a Union troop train in a car full of soldiers !
Over here the problem wasn't rail, it was time, every place kept it's own time until the Government imposed "Railway time" what is now GMT. If you look at railway accident reports from the period , you get comments like " The Station clock ran wildly". Funny now maybe - but not then.