Question About Whether This Could Possibly Have Happened

[Keiri]

From Stockwell, E. (1958). Private Elisha Stockwell, Jr., sees the Civil War. Norman: University of OK Press.

Elisha describes a scene - this is my summary in my notes.

Four men in a tent had an oilcloth laid out. A candle with a bayonet candlestick was stuck in the ground. They looked like they had been playing cards, and all were dead. Each had three cards in his left hand and four cards lay in the middle of the blanket. The rebels had blown the tent to atoms.

The more I learn about weapons in the Civil War the less likely I can believe this type of thing. Could this have feasibly happened? Thoughts?

 

[John Winn]

Well, if the tent had been "blown to atoms" then they'd not have been all neatly arranged with the cards as described.

There are some famous examples of camps being suddenly attacked when men were still in their tents so I'm sure some were killed before they could assemble themselves. However, I rather doubt in those cases artillery was used much so nobody'd have been blown to bits.

I also can't resist saying that the description makes it look like they were playing Texas holdem which hadn't been invented yet.

I think it a bit of a yarn.

 

[UCVRelics]

I think the question is "What were their wounds?

 

[redbob]

Concussion could have possibly been the cause, but the story sounds a tad far fetched.

 

[JOHN42768]

Way to much unbelievable to be believed. No visible wounds, cards still held in hands , oilcloth still laid neatly with cards in place, nothing scorched.

 

[2nd Dragoon]

A scene from Twilight Zone or Outer Limits... An artillery concussion when the shell exploded overhead... hard to say without an actual Mathew Brady picture and even then some of them were staged...

 

[Keiri]

I need to go back and verify every other crazy thing Elisha said. Can you enlighten me if any of these are bs as well?

These include:
* He saw a man against a tree. He looked asleep, except his bloated intestines were down his stomach and legs.

* On a march to Holly Springs, they recently exchanged prisoners from Corinth. Many houses were burned on this march, and he thinks those mistreated by the confederates did it. A confederate woman spat in a boy's face who was previously a captive.

*Near Vicksburg: A cemetery near the pickets had a vault with a wrecked door, but undamaged coffins. One was metallic with a glass top and contained a man killed in a duel with a ball. It looked like beads of sweat on his face.

*also Vicksburg: Both sides got up on works, blackguarded, laughed, and sang.

*They drew up in a line off to one side of the road, just behind a low ridge. Malloy, with staff, was on the ridge watching with field glasses, his orderly held his horse. A stray bullet hit the orderly in the right shoulder. He hollered "Oh!" and ran in front of the regiment. Hollered "OH!" every step until he fell on his face, the "oh" fainter and fainter every step. Men ran from the left, but he fell before they got to him. He was dead when they did. He was a nice-looking young man.
(I have another account of this death, of Victor Armbruster. In that one the writer said he was killed "instantly.")

* He went down a gentle slope a half a mile from the front. An ambulance came in on a run. It passed Sisters of Charity, and there was a man in it with both legs shot off above the knees.

* Kolbs farm: They climbed works and went across a cornfield. Confederate pits were empty. They stood on a timber ridge until 10 a.m., then in a ravine that ran N-S with high ridges on either side. Confederates came up the rear. Infantry formed lines uphill and faced south. Artillery worked the ridge and covered guns with brush. They pointed guns rear. Skirmishers fell back across the field. Confederates pushed to the edge of woods and stopped for a line, then advanced. When half across, the Union opened fire. Confederates fell back.

* Day after Kolb's farm: He saw Confederate corpses 3 deep, scattered through the woods.

* June 25, 1864: They came in sight of works 50 rods away and a color bearer yelled halt. They lay down and Confederates shot grape, canister, and shells. They were too close or too far for each of these. The 17th WI was over the timbered ridge, and the shell killed some of them. He laid there an hour. (I researched this, and there was a guy killed in the 17th "in action" but not clear whether he was killed by a shell or not)

* Also Vicksburg: He put a hat on a ramrod and lifted it and confederates shot it (this technique is confirmed by other witnesses, but they did not say who did it)

* He started back to his company. 100 yards from there, there was a ravine that ran southwest. He saw McPherson and an orderly go up the ravine. Elisha ran to his regiment, and when he got there, he heard McPherson was dead. The confederates opened with artillery shells. Then cannon balls flew. They hit the ground and bound up like rubber balls. A man looked over one shoulder then the other. His eyes stuck out. He was the most scared person he ever saw. He went on the southwest ravine. He met the ambulance with a file of soldiers on each side of McPherson's body. All was quiet.

* They heard cheers off to the right, and then saw Sherman and his aides come up the line. They cheered at him. He took off his hat, faced them, and thanked them for the way they conducted themselves the day before and lamented the death of McPherson. They thought more of him then.

* They camped early, as they were the advance. They saw a house with apple trees. Mos Brick, an Indian, and two boys of the 17th WI stood beside the house talking. There were 12 stands of bees. The Indian told 17th WI boys how to get honey. He told them to put their thumb over a hole and punch the bees to death with a stick through the other hole. He watched them from around the house and ran away laughing when the bees went after them.

Not surprised that someone who fibs might claim to have seen McPherson going up before he died. I doubt it now.

 

[Si Klegg]

From Stockwell, E. (1958). Private Elisha Stockwell, Jr., sees the Civil War. Norman: University of OK Press.

Elisha describes a scene - this is my summary in my notes.

Four men in a tent had an oilcloth laid out. A candle with a bayonet candlestick was stuck in the ground. They looked like they had been playing cards, and all were dead. Each had three cards in his left hand and four cards lay in the middle of the blanket. The rebels had blown the tent to atoms.

The more I learn about weapons in the Civil War the less likely I can believe this type of thing. Could this have feasibly happened? Thoughts?

I've read Elisha's book and he does sometimes er, embellish stories … sounds like he's sitting round the stove in the General Store chatting to the old boys and callow youth

I believe the above episode came from his recollections of Shiloh? I could be wrong, haven't read the book in an age, but I'll have to do a search of my Shiloh books because I think it was remarked on by others (though that may have been Wiley Sword or somesuch author quoting Elisha.)

The explanation I've seen for such a weird occurrence was 'blast' effect from the two Union gunboats USS Tyler and USS Lexington shelling the Confederate lines.

I've never been in the military, so can't swear to it, but I guess some of the Veterans on here will know a fair old bit about the deadly concussive effect of 'blast' injuries.

 

[John Winn]

Well, I guess all of that could be true with the exception of the body in the metal casket. Embalming was not commonly available at the time and I rather doubt a body in a metal casket - even a sealed lead one - would last very long before decomposing. One, I suppose, might mummify to some extent under the right conditions but the body wouldn't appear like a recently-deceased person with "beads of sweat on his face."

Just for the record, I've actually done some study of such things.

 

[Keiri]

Yes the first and the card game one are from Shiloh, sorry I wasn't clear.

 

[huskerblitz]

Well, I guess all of that could be true with the exception of the body in the metal casket. Embalming was not commonly available at the time and I rather doubt a body in a metal casket - even a sealed lead one - would last very long before decomposing. One, I suppose, might mummify to some extent under the right conditions but the body wouldn't appear like a recently-deceased person with "beads of sweat on his face."

Just for the record, I've actually done some study of such things.

If the body was in a metal casket with a glass top I would think the family would have been able to afford embalming as well. I suppose it depends on how long the man was dead. There was a man named Lake that was killed in a duel in early 1862 (I think it was). He had a farmhouse out by Chickasaw Bayou and a house in Vicksburg. He was a member of the Confederacy Congress when he was killed. They may have been wealthy enough to afford those luxuries.

 

[Si Klegg]

No problem Keiri, it's such an odd episode of the Civil War it had stuck in my mind!

A bit of oral history ...

My mum used to tell a story of an entire family who died in her street during the 'May Week' bombing of Liverpool and Birkenhead in 1941.

Many folks refused to use the government-issued Anderson Shelters in the back yard and the communal brick-built Air Raid Shelters at the top of every other road. They created 'bomb-proofs' under the stairs, where you could at least keep warm, have a bit of privacy away from the 'communal-bucket with a curtain' hell of the public shelters and keep the family together instead of fighting to get a seat.

During one night's bombing, the terraced housing where this family lived took a direct hit from a land mine. All that was left of their home was the stairs. When the Wardens investigated they found the entire family below the stairs dead where they slept with no outward sign of injury whatsoever. 'Killed by blast' they called it.

 

[John Winn]

If the body was in a metal casket with a glass top I would think the family would have been able to afford embalming as well. I suppose it depends on how long the man was dead. There was a man named Lake that was killed in a duel in early 1862 (I think it was). He had a farmhouse out by Chickasaw Bayou and a house in Vicksburg. He was a member of the Confederacy Congress when he was killed. They may have been wealthy enough to afford those luxuries.

Yes, it's possible but, given that embalming wasn't generally available and common practice of the day being to bury people within a day or two of death I just think it not probable.

 

[huskerblitz]

Yes, it's possible but, given that embalming wasn't generally available and common practice of the day being to bury people within a day or two of death I just think it not probable.

Well if (and of course a BIG IF) it was Lake he was killed away from home then brought back and buried in City Cemetery in Vicksburg. How long it took to get him home and his funeral to take place I don't know.

 

[diane]

Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. We had a thread a while back about lightning strikes - one strike blew up a battery and killed all the horses and crew. Another lightning strike hit the ground and killed about a dozen men sleeping on it - not a mark on any of them, but all dead in their blankets!

 

[John Winn]

Well if (and of course a BIG IF) it was Lake he was killed away from home then brought back and buried in City Cemetery in Vicksburg. How long it took to get him home and his funeral to take place I don't know.

Early embalming used arsenic and mercury and only preserved a body for a short time - i.e. long enough for transport and viewing. Even in an air-tight metal casket bodies embalmed in the mid-nineteenth century would have decomposed in no more than two years at the most (and more typically, especially in a hot climate, maybe one or two months).

Lincoln's body, for instance, began decomposing while still on the train. His embalmer rode along and touched him up several times along the way.

 

[Gibbs]

Sounds like a yarn my Cousin Rick would spin and if one thing is false, you can probably bet most of the rest of it is as well.

Now about the bombing of a house with a land mine. Land mines don't fall from the sky and don't have the power to blow up complete homes. So I really question that one....

 

[Si Klegg]

Sounds like a yarn my Cousin Rick would spin and if one thing is false, you can probably bet most of the rest of it is as well.

Now about the bombing of a house with a land mine. Land mines don't fall from the sky and don't have the power to blow up complete homes. So I really question that one....

I remember asking my mum the same question donkey's years ago! They were completely silent unlike the whistles and drones of other ordnance. Silent but deadly in other words.

Quick google reveals:

During World War Two the Luftwaffe developed a range of Parachute Mines or Landmines as they were called by the Civil Defence. These were in actual fact Sea mines, but it was quickly discovered by the Germans that these weapons could also be effective on land based targets as "blast" bombs. There were two sizes of Magnetic Parachute Mines, the Luftmine A (abbreviated LMA) of 500kg which was 5ft 8in long & the Luftmine B (LMB) which was 1000kg & 8ft 8in long. These magnetic mines were constructed of aluminium, with a domed parachute housing which jettisoned in the air to deploy a large green or red parachute. They were fitted with the Type (34)B fuze, & were detonated either by impact or by a disruption to the magnetic device contained inside, bomb disposal used a variety of bronze anti-magnetic tools to deal with UXB Landmines.

Later other types of mines were used against built up targets such as the steel cased SB 1000kg parachute bomb which was designed to explode just above the ground causing devastating damage to buildings by the blast effect of the weapon. The SB 1000kg contained a single fuze pocket with the type (55) fuze normally being used which had a long wire to a nose switch on the front of the bomb.

http://www.ww2airdroppedordnance.com/german-parachute-mines---bombs.html

Brief account of land mines dropping on the Liverpool Docks Friday/Saturday May 2/3 1941:

Albert Dock and the May Blitz

The Albert Dock provided berths and maintenance workshops for Flower Class Corvettes, tasked with protecting the convoys responsible for maintaining the vital supply link of food and materials with the USA.

One of the Corvettes housed at the Albert Dock was 'HMS Campanula'. On board was Nicholas Monsarrat, author of the famous 1951 war novel 'The Cruel Sea'.

During the raids on the night of Friday 2 to Saturday 3 May 1941, three mines were dropped in Salthouse Dock, Canning half tide Dock, and Albert Dock. Nicholas Monsarrat witnessed the dropping of the third mine into Albert Dock:

"Campanula herself came nearest to dissolution from a huge land-mine which, floating down by parachute and silhouetted impressively against this bomber's moon, fell into the dock-basin with a gentle splash about twenty yards astern of us.

Not knowing what sort of activity could touch this sneaky weapon off – it might be noise, electrical interference, temperature change, a certain pattern of vibration, or the simple lapse of time – we closed down everything we had, from bilge pumps to the radio set, and, moving on tiptoe and talking in whispers, pulled ourselves out of the neighbourhood with our own strong arms."

From 'Life is a Four-Letter Word. Volume 2: Breaking Out', by Nicholas Monsarrat, 1970

The mine did not detonate until the following day, on Saturday 3 May. The mines were magnetic and went off if they detected movement around them but it is thought that this mine went off spontaneously. HMS Campanula was back in the Albert Dock but was not damaged by the explosion. The lightship Sirius was sunk, as was No. 2 Surveyor, a seven ton launch. The vessel Camel No. 4 was also left badly damaged.

 

[rebelatsea]

Sounds like a yarn my Cousin Rick would spin and if one thing is false, you can probably bet most of the rest of it is as well.

Now about the bombing of a house with a land mine. Land mines don't fall from the sky and don't have the power to blow up complete homes. So I really question that one....

"Land mine" is a term often used by the press to distinguish the weapon from a sea mine. They are actually dropped on the end of a parachute and set to explode in the air . They are deadly in a crowded urban area where the blast effect can indeed totally destroy buildings on the ground under the point of explosion . Where I used to live, Ealing ,which is a suburb of London surrounded by railway lines and thus a prime target, two parachute mines, one aimed at the main Station and the other at West Ealing Junction devasted areas over half a mile square and obliterated the buildings directly under them - but missed the intended targets which were put out of action but not destroyed. At Ealing Broadway a large department store, big shoe store opposite and many shops were completely flattened, and at West Ealing, all the nearby buildings, mostly small commercial units suffered the same fate. I understand there is a modern form of this weapon called a fuel- air bomb .

 

[Si Klegg]

The blast from these mines was enormous. A nearby hit would blow out every window in the street, which is why you see 'taped' windows in WWII photos of the UK. My late auntie was absolutely shredded by flying glass, she was 17 in 1941. She was picking glass shards out of her leg and hip for years as they gradually came to the surface of the skin over time.