Question about re-enactments

[David Ireland]

Hello,


I would like to know if it is legal in New York State to fire period artillery with live ammunition as a member of a group. I'm a civil war buff, have always been interested in artillery as ghastly as it was, and am also an avid hobbyist marksman. I would love to get to combine all three of those and get to fire a period cannon at a target at the range, although I suspect our state emperor has banned even the discussion of this topic.

 

[ami]

Our unit used to do an artillery shoot in Westerloo New York. @CivilWarTalk or other N-SSA members may be able to better answer you

I'm not sure if the laws have changed since we left the area.

 

[lupaglupa]

I've been to any number of reenactments in New York where they've fired cannons etc. I don't believe they ever had cannonballs in them. My guess is it's allowed by permit and regulated, since that's pretty much the norm in New York for most stuff.

 

[CivilWarTalk]

@David Ireland you should look into the American Artillery Association (or AAA), but so far as I can tell they only have a presence on Facebook. You can search for them pretty easy.

The AAA holds live artillery matches in New York firing cannons with live ammo for score, so yes, it is possible, and legal. We used to come from New Jersey and participate with a full scale 10 pdr. Parrott, but have since moved farther South. Matches were held at 100 and 200 yards. Mortar matches were also popular.

I don't know of any new special regulations in New York for cannons, but then again, every year we would send the State Police a letter in New Jersey notifying them that we would be transporting our cannon on state roads on "every" weekend of the year, and then list all the possible dates we might travel.

Today, I'm not sure I'd risk travelling in NJ or NY with a cannon on an open trailer...

Nothing would surprise me up North these days....

 

[111thNYSV]

Depends on where you are in NY. If you are north of NYC or not around Albany, I don't think anyone would bat an eye. On top of that it is black powder. Even in NY I can have black powder arms shipped right to my door. In their eyes its ancient technology and not dangerous like modern weaponry. Which makes sense because we all know no body was every killed by black powder weapons . If you are that serious I would give your county sheriff a call or who ever is the lead law enforcement agency in your jurisdiction and ask.

 

[lupaglupa]

Nothing would surprise me up North these days....

That's what folks up here say about the South

 

[14NYSM]

NSSA (North-South Skirmish Assn.) events often feature target shooting with cannon. I helped as a range officer when the 42nd NY (Tammany Regt.) held a shoot on Long Island, N.Y., a long time ago. They fired projectiles https://www.n-ssa.org/

 

[PrivateBrooke]

You would need to find a range that would allow that...you probably won't, anywhere. There's very few that I know of, outside N-SSA events that allow that.

 

[poorjack]

You won't find anybody at a reenactment with any live ammo but we in the North South Skirmish Association do live fire competition with pretty much anything used in the War including artillery.

 

[David Ireland]

Depends on where you are in NY. If you are north of NYC or not around Albany, I don't think anyone would bat an eye. On top of that it is black powder. Even in NY I can have black powder arms shipped right to my door. In their eyes its ancient technology and not dangerous like modern weaponry. Which makes sense because we all know no body was every killed by black powder weapons . If you are that serious I would give your county sheriff a call or who ever is the lead law enforcement agency in your jurisdiction and ask.

Do you need a pistol permit to get blackpowder revolvers or are they considered antique guns?

 

[David Ireland]

You won't find anybody at a reenactment with any live ammo but we in the North South Skirmish Association do live fire competition with pretty much anything used in the War including artillery.

How do I get involved in that? I'm in the Ithaca area.

 

[captaindrew]

Do you need a pistol permit to get blackpowder revolvers or are they considered antique guns?

They are antiques, including reproductions, in almost every state except for New Jersey and Illinois so in most states you don't need any kind of permit.

 

[lupaglupa]

Do you need a pistol permit to get blackpowder revolvers or are they considered antique guns?

They are antiques, including reproductions, in almost every state except for New Jersey and Illinois so in most states you don't need any kind of permit.

@David Ireland I would strongly advise anyone living in New York to check not once but twice before buying any guns to be owned and used in New York. Better to check beforehand on what is and is not legal than to find out the hard way that New York had a different standard to every other state (which, being New York, we often do).

 

[captaindrew]

@David Ireland I would strongly advise anyone living in New York to check not once but twice before buying any guns to be owned and used in New York. Better to check beforehand on what is and is not legal than to find out the hard way that New York had a different standard to every other state (which, being New York, we often do).

You're fine in New York. It's actually Federal law, any model firearms produced before 1898, including reproductions thereof, are in the eyes of the law are antiques and require no permits. Again with the exception of NJ and Illinois who don't recognize it.

 

[lupaglupa]

You're fine in New York. It's actually Federal law, any model firearms produced before 1898, including reproductions thereof, are in the eyes of the law are antiques and require no permits. Again with the exception of NJ and Illinois who don't recognize it.

As someone who lives in New York and worked for the legislature, I would always check and check well before purchasing any firearm. It's just prudent to be sure.

 

[captaindrew]

As someone who lives in New York and worked for the legislature, I would always check and check well before purchasing any firearm. It's just prudent to be sure.

Very understandable and yes when in doubt double check. Traveling all over the Eastern half of the country doing reenactments and hunting trips I do keep up on these things. Believe me I tread very lightly and never stop when I have to pass through Jersey.

 

[Story]

Do you need a pistol permit to get blackpowder revolvers or are they considered antique guns?

How do I get involved in that? I'm in the Ithaca area.

1) I am not a lawyer and the following should be considered road markers and not legal advice. That said, here's the NY State laws I could find after 1.5 cups of coffee.

2) Here is the NY definition from https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/265.00
* 14. "Antique firearm" means:

Any unloaded muzzle loading pistol or revolver with a matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, or a
pistol or revolver which uses fixed cartridges which are no longer
available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

3) Here is the application definition for carrying one of those

Legislation

www.nysenate.gov

3. Applications. (a) Applications shall be made and renewed, in the
case of a license to carry or possess a pistol or revolver, to the
licensing officer in the city or county, as the case may be, where the
applicant resides, is principally employed or has his or her principal
place of business as merchant or storekeeper.
[other unapplicable stuff]
(g) have, possess, collect and carry antique
pistols which are defined as follows: (i) any single shot, muzzle
loading pistol with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar
type of ignition system manufactured in or before l898, which is not
designed for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition;
and (ii) any replica of any pistol described in clause (i) hereof if
such replica--

4) AS I UNDERSTAND IT - you can purchase a reproduction revolver of the nature described above, but the minute you start stockpiling powder / ball / caps, you're in violation of NY law. This is sorta a CATCH-22.

5) Occam's Razor dictates that this question has already been asked and answered many times before. If I were in your position, I would sign up here - do the search bar thing and after absorbing whatever answers you found do the "Hi, new guy here with questions" thing. Might even make some new friends.

New York Firearms Forum

A forum community dedicated to all New York firearm owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!

www.nyfirearms.com

6) If the answer turns out to be "Yes, you need a permit to shoot your Colt Navy if you live near Ithaca", then here ya go

Pistol Permits | Tompkins County NY

www.tompkinscountyny.gov

 

[Story]

And for those who've never seen this video before, how to blenderize troops in the open -

 

[David Ireland]

As someone who lives in New York and worked for the legislature, I would always check and check well before purchasing any firearm. It's just prudent to be sure.

I'm a year away from being a lawyer myself and I would not rely on anything on here obviously. But sometimes talking to people who have navigated our state's ridiculous gun laws is a better place to START your research than trying to wade through the morass of statutes. NY gun laws are insanely convoluted.

 

[Trooper "D"]

Do you need a pistol permit to get blackpowder revolvers or are they considered antique guns?

No permits needed for Black Powder unless you have some dictatorial state or other municipality.
Gun Control Act of 1968-'72.
Any weapon Pre 1898 that does not use fixed ammunition (metallic cartridges) or that proper ammunition is not readily available for the weapon is considered to not be a "FIREARM".
So black powder muzzle loaders of many type are not legally "FIREARMS". Cap and ball revolvers are indeed, muzzle loaders.
Loose ammunition i e powder, caps, and lead ball are not to be treated as fixed ammunition. Many in Law Enforcement and the Criminal Justice System are ignorant of the Gun Control Act. So be prepared to direct them to the clause of antique weapons and ammo. I learned this the hard way and even explaining to the authorities that BP weapons are not "FIREARMS" and not subject to confiscation when the FIREARMS box is checked on a complaint form, they didn't listen. I got everything back a couple days later but they still don't realise that my 4th Amendment Rights were trampled by them. Remember that if a court order is in effect about possessing FIREARMS that they will getbyou for violating a court order no matter how unconstitutional their actions are.
Another point. Pre 1898 includes 1873 Trapdoor Springfields and Rolling Blocks and a number of other weapons. These reproduction or original weapons can use fixed ammunition and there for do not come under the antique clause thingy. Old Colt Revolvers such as the 1873 SAA are FIREARMS. Just a reminder that Pre-1898 is not a blanket cover for all Pre-1898 weapons.
Anyway, I'm sure I have repeated what others have said. I really can't stress how important it is to have the Gun Control Act of 1968-'72 printed out or downloaded on your phone or computer so you can show them authorities the little ACT OF CONGRESS that they themselves should be familiar with. States don't outrank Congressional Acts.
Oh, and BP is an explosive not a propellant. You might want to check out your areas attitude about that also.
Cheers! I hope you find a weapon that you are satisfied with and I wish you safe and happy plunking in the future.

You're fine in New York. It's actually Federal law, any model firearms produced before 1898, including reproductions thereof, are in the eyes of the law are antiques and require no permits. Again with the exception of NJ and Illinois who don't recognize it.