Query on 1863 CS Photograph

[on again]

Apparently Part of A J russell series 1863 Fredericks burg photograhs

File:The photographic history of the Civil War - thousands of scenes photographed 1861-65, with text by many special authorities (1911) (14762669205).jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Ar lower left what is in the window?
Some claim it is a cannon.
Some claim it is a dummy quaker gun.

which is correct?

 

[iron bender]

I personally don't think it's either. That would make the building a target for counter battery.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

It looks like a stand-alone solid cannon tube (it has a trunnion on the barrel side) with its end suspended upright by a rope attached to an upper window cross-beam. But if it was a bronze/iron barrel, given the weight involved, wonder how practical it would have been to mount it that way on this upper floor.

Anyway, doubt it could fire with this configuration, so thought it was positioned here to serve the same deceptive function as a wooden log Quaker gun. (The photograph was taken from the river side, meaning the gun was facing the direction of the river assault).

 

[Sheltowee]

I'll guess at a bedpost. Good sized 'un too.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

I personally don't think it's either. That would make the building a target for counter battery.

Fair point, but thought not necessarily a disincentive. Confederate sharpshooters were also often (through the war) conspicuously placed in tall buildings to get better shots and thereby attracted directed Federal artillery fire. (e.g. During the Knoxville Campaign in '63, several Southern sharpshooters operating out of the brick Armstrong House tower were targeted by a sighted 20-pounder Parrott about twenty-five hundred yards away in Fort Sanders. A single fired shot hit the target to remove the causes of the mischief).

 

[iron bender]

Fair point, but thought not necessarily a disincentive. Confederate sharpshooters were also often (through the war) conspicuously placed in tall buildings to get better shots and thereby attracted directed Federal artillery fire. (e.g. During the Knoxville Campaign in '63, several Southern sharpshooters operating out of the brick Armstrong House tower were targeted by a sighted 20-pounder Parrott about twenty-five hundred yards away in Fort Sanders. A single fired shot hit the target to remove the causes of the mischief).

I wouldn't want to be positioned in a building with artillery knowing location. Reason I question this being assumed or real cannon barrel. Parrott rifles of all diameter were dangerous and effective pieces of equipment with the right gunner

I'm familiar with this photo but not the building's identity. It has to be well known. It's on the river and appears to have a water wheel. Some sort of factory or pumphouse?

 

[Nathan Stuart]

I wouldn't want to be positioned in a building with artillery knowing location.

Agree - thought anyone firing from such an elevated fixed position was a 'sitting duck' for enemy return fire. Have also read elsewhere that enemy combatants who suffered losses by discharges from such semi-concealed positions were also likely to show their fury and pour shots into these discovered sources of fire.

 

[iron bender]

Agree - thought anyone firing from such an elevated fixed position was a 'sitting duck' for enemy return fire. Have also read elsewhere that enemy combatants who suffered losses by discharges from such semi-concealed positions were also likely to show their fury and pour shots into these discovered sources of fire.

I believe Rebel riflemen were positioned in the attics and top floors of houses in the town of Gettysburg July1/2. As I see it through 2025 eyes (maybe 2002 eyes) I just can't believe any commander would allow sticking a cannon barrel out of the window of a building. Asking for it.

 

[Rhea Cole]

This is the muzzle of a 12 pound Napoleon. 1,222 pounds is the weight of the barrel. Small compact cars weigh (+/-) 2,500 to 3,500 pounds. Imagine dangling the front half of a car out of that window. Imagine how you would reach out there & load it.

Whatever that the bf is that pokes v out of the window, it is certainly not a cannon.

 

[R. Porter]

I don't see a trunnion and the tip of the shadow it casts on the wall looks odd. I would need more proof to believe it's a cannon barrel. The building has two doorways on the upper center of the wall. There is no way for a person to climb up to them and if someone steps out of them they will fall several floors. That suggests this is an industrial building rather than a residential building. There is also a water wheel to drive home the point. An industrial building will have internal framework and axles for gears and belts to operate machinery or mill stones. I would find it more likely that a wooden beam is sticking out of a window than a cannon was dragged up a flight of stairs only to shove it into a restricted location from which it cannot quickly escape when it is being targeted by opposing artillery.

Also, there looks to be a smudge over the window it is sticking out of. Perhaps it was cold so some soldiers in the building tried to start a fire in a fireplace that was blocked and the room started filling with smoke. They might have grabbed the first thing they could find to smash open a window to let the smoke out. It wasn't their building and they'd be gone before the owner found out. War is hell.

 

[Rhett Butler]

Hardly likely to be an artillery piece for several reasons- the recoil after firing would cause structural damage to the room and possible floor/wall collapse. Firing a cannon in an enclosed space would generate shock waves that again would cause structural damage plus possible injury to the crew. To effectively operate an artillery piece you would need 5 or 6 artillery men- would they fit in the room together with the piece. I would also suggest to place a piece in a restricted space would give a very limited field of fire- something that no self respecting gunner would subscribe to!

 

[Old Soldier]

It is no cannon. The 'house' is actually a flour watermill and has a number of storage areas on the upper floors. The long 'windows' are doors which allowed access to the outside. Sacks were winched up or down to them by a pulley attached to the wall above the upper door hence the reinforcement there. The sacks would be hauled from outside at ground/water level then pulled inside by the handlers on that floor. There is a similar reinforcement above the window in question. - a real window - so may be an attachment point for a pulley. The wooden spar may be a spacer to ensure that the load does not rub against the wall or - wait for it - for someone to stand on to push the load towards the window opening as it is too small for someone inside to do it! Any loads would have to be small and relatively light.

There is nothing remaining today but there are several maps which show the location. The key is the bridge which shows it as the railroad bridge. However, a photo taken after the battle shows nothing from that window.

 

[7thWisconsin]

The sheer weight of a cannon barrel makes it unlikely that it would be hauled up several stories just to be used as a dummy, and there´s no way you can actually fire a gun out that window. Next you´d be picking the survivors out of the basement rubble. It´s a civilian structure - it´s a big chunk of wood like a 6x6 beam.

 

[RaggedAssSecond]

The sheer weight of a cannon barrel makes it unlikely that it would be hauled up several stories just to be used as a dummy, and there´s no way you can actually fire a gun out that window. Next you´d be picking the survivors out of the basement rubble. It´s a civilian structure - it´s a big chunk of wood like a 6x6 beam.

I agree with @7thWisconsin particularly since there is a railroad trestle nearby.

 

[Robert Gray]

It is no cannon. The 'house' is actually a flour watermill and has a number of storage areas on the upper floors. The long 'windows' are doors which allowed access to the outside. Sacks were winched up or down to them by a pulley attached to the wall above the upper door hence the reinforcement there. The sacks would be hauled from outside at ground/water level then pulled inside by the handlers on that floor. There is a similar reinforcement above the window in question. - a real window - so may be an attachment point for a pulley. The wooden spar may be a spacer to ensure that the load does not rub against the wall or - wait for it - for someone to stand on to push the load towards the window opening as it is too small for someone inside to do it! Any loads would have to be small and relatively light.

There is nothing remaining today but there are several maps which show the location. The key is the bridge which shows it as the railroad bridge. However, a photo taken after the battle shows nothing from that window.
View attachment 548278

I've always liked this photo. Notice the Confederate soldiers fishing on the far river bank.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

I'm familiar with this photo but not the building's identity. It has to be well known. It's on the river and appears to have a water wheel. Some sort of factory or pumphouse?

That building may have been the Alexander and Gibbs tobacco factory (on the bank of the river), which was used as a hospital by Confederate forces in 1861. (See https://encyclopediavirginia.org/12261hpr-25ee12257fe19be/ ).

 

[Old Soldier]

That building may have been the Alexander and Gibbs tobacco factory (on the bank of the river), which was used as a hospital by Confederate forces in 1861. (See https://encyclopediavirginia.org/12261hpr-25ee12257fe19be/ ).

A map of the time states it is a 'flour mill'. it was alongside the river and union froces were on the other side. Not a good place to set up a hospital.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

A map of the time states it is a 'flour mill'. it was alongside the river and union froces were on the other side. Not a good place to set up a hospital.

Agree, it looks more like a water-powered flour mill located alongside the river. Bear in mind that the read source referring to it being formerly used as a Confederate hospital, relates only to use back in 1861 (not 1862).

 

[Trooper "D"]

Apparently Part of A J russell series 1863 Fredericks burg photograhs

File:The photographic history of the Civil War - thousands of scenes photographed 1861-65, with text by many special authorities (1911) (14762669205).jpg - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Ar lower left what is in the window?
Some claim it is a cannon.
Some claim it is a dummy quaker gun.

which is correct?

Neither is correct.

 

[on again]

before and present day sites Fredericksburg 1863
see the following before and after links

Among Buildings Now Gone - Warehouses Along City Dock, Fredericksburg

Up until the 1930s, two, large, warehouse and tenement complexes dominated the 300 block of Sophia Street in Fredericksburg. In December of ...

spotsylvaniacw.blogspot.com

Photographs of Second Fredericksburg: Interpreting Smoke Then and Now

from: Harrison This blog has devoted several posts to the Second Battle of Fredericksburg component of the Chancellorsville Campaign and to the photographic documentation of its landscapes, most re…

npsfrsp.wordpress.com

U. S. Civil War Photographs - Fredericksburg

Civil War Photos, Commentary & Analysis Of Fredericksburg

www.usa-civil-war.com

Fredericksburg, Then and Now | Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History

Fredericksburg, Then and Now | by Elena Colón-Marrero, Christopher Newport University Class of 2014 | by Elena Colón-Marrero, Christopher Newport University Class of 2014 One would think that growing up in a town rich in colonial and Civil War history would inspire an appreciation for that...

www.gilderlehrman.org

When was the picture of CS on the Bridge taken and who took it??