Pulling a Minie ball

[ConfederateCanuck]

Hi folks. I was hoping to get some advice on how to pull a Minie ball from an 1853 Enfield. Although I have never gotten one stuck in a barrel yet, I suspect the day will come when I forget to load the powder first… it happens to the best of us, I am told.

I have what I believe to be an original ramrod. I am looking for a reproduction ball puller/worm since I do not want to damage an original or risk breaking it off into the barrel. Does anybody know where I can find a ball puller/worm that fits an original 1853 Enfield ramrod? I have attached a picture of the threads on my ramrod. I have measured the threads to be 5/32 wide and about 13 to 14/32 long, with about 11 to 12 threads in total.
Do these dimensions match an original ramrod? Is there anything that people can tell me about original thread dimensions and/or ramrod attachments that would be appropriate for the Enfield?

On a related topic, does anybody know where to find a quality reproduction of the Enfield Sergeant's tool?

EDIT: I suppose I don't have to use my ramrod. Is there a modern pulling rod you would recommend instead, and where can I buy it?

 

[DixieRifles]

For some reason, I began to have a fear that I would get a ball stuck in one of my replica firearms. I bought 2 sizes of threaded pullers but I still wasn't convinced these would do the job.
Then I decided to switch to the idea of blowing it out with my Air Compressor. I bought this pistol grip for $4.00 and tested it on a few "stuck balls" simulations.

Try it. It won't cost you too much money. Just be careful with this.

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

For some reason, I began to have a fear that I would get a ball stuck in one of my replica firearms. I bought 2 sizes of threaded pullers but I still wasn't convinced these would do the job.
Then I decided to switch to the idea of blowing it out with my Air Compressor. I bought this pistol grip for $4.00 and tested it on a few "stuck balls" simulations.

View attachment 457727

Try it. It won't cost you too much money. Just be careful with this.

I've read about using compressed air/CO2....but I can't lug that with me out to range/field I am shooting at. I need an "old school" method for on-the-spot removal. A puller/worm would work, but I am not sure which specific ones will thread on to my ramrod.

 

[DixieRifles]

I've read about using compressed air/CO2....but I can't lug that with me out to range/field I am shooting at. I need an "old school" method for on-the-spot removal.

True. I don't mind an interruption at the range. I am mainly worried about having a ball stuck in my gun for days after all my bullet pullers fail to extract it.

 

[johan_steele]

My first suggestion is to call and talk to Lodgewood. I actually have a range rod for such things. But pick up a sponge and worm with the ball puller. You'll thank me in the long run.

 

[rli]

I've read about using compressed air/CO2....but I can't lug that with me out to range/field I am shooting at. I need an "old school" method for on-the-spot removal. A puller/worm would work, but I am not sure which specific ones will thread on to my ramrod.

An old fire extinguisher converted to a compressed air bottle is portable. Even a larger portable tire fill cylinder would work just takes up more space.

 

[johan_steele]

An old fire extinguisher converted to a compressed air bottle is portable. Even a larger portable tire fill cylinder would work just takes up more space.

The problem was s getting enough PSI to get the ball moving, which btw is considerably less than to launch a stuck ramrod. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

My first suggestion is to call and talk to Lodgewood. I actually have a range rod for such things. But pick up a sponge and worm with the ball puller. You'll thank me in the long run.

I will do that....thanks!

 

[Rhea Cole]

Warning, do not attempt to use compressed air to extract a bulllet. The vent may actually be blocked by the bullet if there was a light load / no powder. In any case, the tiny diameter of the hole won't let enough pressure to build up & expel the ball. What will happen is that the valve will recoil back into your face. Teeth, eyes & other very expensive things to fix can get slammed.

If you really can't remove the ball, it is a job for a gunsmith who knows what he is doing. Unless you have run a shop, it is hard to comprehend how dangerous compressed air can be. Goofing around with a spray nozzle like the one pictured, one of my dad's employees accidentally killed a man.

It shouldn't be all that hard to pull the round. Keep in mind the popgun effect. You can only move the ball at the rate air can get behind the bullet. You pull even a slight vacuum & it isn't going anywhere.

 

[gc45]

I stuck one in my 40 cal rifle one time, took quite a bit of effort to remove it too. I ended up making a long .375 inch drill bit with nylon bushing to both center and guide the bit down to the lead bullet, then drilled out the lead bullets center portion whereby the remaining lead just collapsed and everything came out. The bullet puller threads were a joke as the worm just pulled out when trying to pull the bullet out. Screwing it in just expanded the ball very tight to the barrels wall area.

 

[Rhea Cole]

The problem was s getting enough PSI to get the ball moving, which btw is considerably less than to launch a stuck ramrod. Don't ask me how I know.

Around the turn of the millennium, it was standard NPS practice to use a fire extinguisher / CO2 to remove blank black powder cannon rounds. If the load is too small, the priming wire can't penetrate the aluminum foil surrounding the powder. A new vent plug resulted in exactly that happening to us at STRI. Loading the round backwards, peat moss first is the most popular thing to do. Loading a round on top of a stuffed toy a visitor "lost" while taking a photo was a notable occurrence.

In the limber chest there was a tube the diameter of the vent attached to a hose & the bottle. It worked like charm. In training, it popped the round out in a jolly fashion…. In the field, however, it proved to be not so clever.

A couple of vicious kick backs resuled in the addition of a face shield to the kit. The ever popular hit the chest & bounced off the inside of the face shield ( the exact number of times was not established) doing considerable tissue damage & resulting in a system wide stop order.

In our enlightened times, a big syringe fitted with a proper sized tube & filled with water neutralizes the round. The aluminum foil is pierced & the muzzle tipped down so the charge can be washed out with a hose. It isn't very dignified, but it is extremely safe.

 

[frontrank2]

IIRC, Dixie Gun Works sells a hand held ball discharger that works off the small CO2 cartridges used in airguns. You just place it on the nipple and give it a shot of CO2 which should expel a fouled projectile easily.

 

[Pollaco]

There are several "tricks" to removing stuck lead balls from muzzleloaders. I don't see why they wouldn't work on a Minie ball as well. The compressed air thing is one that works. Another is to remove the nipple and put in a few grains of powder. Replace the nipple, cap it, and blow (shoot) it out. Another is to remove the nipple and replace it with a grease zirk. Use a grease gun to pump the barrel full of grease.It "pushes" the ball out. It is messy but will clean up. Granted these are techniques used in ball removal from modern muzzleloaders but should work in yours as well Good luck!
.

 

[DixieRifles]

The compressed air thing is one that works. Another is to remove the nipple and put in a few grains of powder. Replace the nipple, cap it, and blow it out.

Blow as it shoot it out.
I had a long period of experimenting with my .36 caliber rifle that has a 44-inch long barrel.
I was sure that the ball moved when the Cap popped but the charge did not ignite(absorbed some oil). A few times I could put enough powder in to fire the ball out. However, twice in one day, I had to drive down the road to see a guy out in the country who had a gunsmith shop in his backyard.

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

I am able to pull the nipple off. Realistically, how much powder can I squeeze in to be able to fire out the Minie?

 

[Rhea Cole]

I am able to pull the nipple off. Realistically, how much powder can I squeeze in to be able to fire out the Minie?

I consulted my gunsmith guru. You have put your finger on it exactly. If when you incert very fine powder into the assumed void, you must fill the entire space behind the ball / bullet. If you leave a void, Mr Newton's Laws dictate that you may have created a pipe bomb (not a euphemism.) Catastrophic failure of the barrel can occur. He is about the most literal speaking human I know.

If you have not loaded the charge, a real possibility as all of us have sinned, the vent could be blocked. Use a toothpick or other nonmetallic object to search it out.

Gunsmiths pour solvent into the barrel in order to dissolve the lubricant around the round. Let it sit for a couple of hours, overnight for a patch. That should free up the round & allow it to be pulled. Failing that, a gunsmith will have to remove the breechblock & tap it out with a dowel.


One last word of caution:

Note the jet of white hot gas spewing out the vent. The copper friction primer tube is visible above the jet. The recoiling lanyard can be seen to the left. Note how far away the crewmen are standing. Keep this image fixed in your mind should you attempt to fire the stuck ball out of the musket.

STRI living history crew. Photo by the author, you are free to use it.

 

[BillWright]

I've had this happen several times where I've had to pull a ball. One thing a musket shooter must have is nipple wrench. Remove the nipple, put a few grains of black powder in the vent. Replace the nipple and blow it out. This whole thing takes 3 to 5 minutes and you'll be ready to go.

 

[Booner]

Yup. If you shoot black powder long enough, you'll "dry ball" a load, or it'll happen to someone you're shooting with. Once a person starts the loading process, it's really considered bad form to interrupt them until their done loading. In my experience, being interrupted in the loading process is the biggest cause of "dry loading."

1st method-
I keep a small bottle of 4-f priming powder in my shooting box just in case a "dry ball" happens. Remove the nipple and dribble a small amount of powder down into the hole (use a straightened aluminum paper clip to push the powder down and into the hole). Replace the nipple, cap and fire the musket. If your dry ball is a minnie, (as a minnie is undersized verses the bore), it should come out, as long as the bore isn't fowled too much. You probably don't need to use much powder, maybe no more powder than a priming charge of a flintlock (you do have a flintlock, don't you?), just a couple of grains of powder. (by weight, not kernels of powder). With just a few grains by weight you -will not- be creating a pipe bomb or ring the barrel but should create enough pressure to push that bullet out of the bore.

2nd method-
No.1 didn't work because you're shooting a tightly patched round ball, or the bore was really fowled. First, as a safety measure, I'd shoot a couple caps to make sure there's no residual powder behind the ball, and then pour some oil into the breach end of the bore just as additional safety measure as you'll be working in front of the muzzle. Next, squirt some oil into the bore to help soften and lubricate the bore. Put a saturated oiled patch on the cleaning rod and clean and lubricate the bore down to an in front of the bullet. Then take a steel range rod, (don't try this with a wooden ramrod!) and put the ball puller jag on it and insert it into the bore. The range rod needs to have a large handle on it, something that you can get a good grip on. Tap on the rod a bit to get the ball puller jag started into the bullet. The ball puller jag looks somewhat like a wood screw with a collar around its base to keep it centered in the bore. The problem with this method is as the ball puller enters the bullet, it will enlarge the bullet a bit making it tighter in the bore, but you have to engage the bullet puller deep enough into the bullet to get a good bite on it. You'll need someone to hold the musket steady while you begin to pull the range rod; don't jerk the rod, just keep on pulling it on a gradual basis and one of two things will happen. Either the ball will begin to move and once it does it should continue until it exits the bore, or, you'll strip the ball puller out of the bullet. If the second item occurs, hopefully you can screw it in the bullet further and pull it out, or you can find a ball puller that has larger threads and try it again.

3rd method.
Nothings working, so you pull the breach plug and drive the bullet out. Removing the breach plug is the-very-last-resort and thankfully I've never had to go beyond method #2.

You can get all of the items you need to do this at "Track of the Wolf"--> https://www.trackofthewolf.com

Look under "loading rod" for what I call a range rod, -->https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/830/1

You'll want at least four different jags for the loading rod: cleaning/loading jag, ball puller, patch puller, and breach face scraper, all of appropriate caliber for whatever calibers you shoot. Just make sure you buy a range rod that's long enough and that its threads match the threads of the jag. I use the range rod for all of my loading and cleaning, especially if the gun has a wooden ramrod.

I also have a range bag for each type of weapon I shoot; a bag for centerfire, one for muzzleloading, and one for my 45/70 Sharps. What I have in each of these bags is the culmination of 50+ years of shooting, so I can pretty much fix any problem that happens to me or someone else.

 

[Booner]

I am able to pull the nipple off. Realistically, how much powder can I squeeze in to be able to fire out the Minie?

OK, be honest. Did you "dry ball" your gun, or are you just "asking for a friend?"

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

Yup. If you shoot black powder long enough, you'll "dry ball" a load, or it'll happen to someone you're shooting with. Once a person starts the loading process, it's really considered bad form to interrupt them until their done loading. In my experience, being interrupted in the loading process is the biggest cause of "dry loading."

1st method-
I keep a small bottle of 4-f priming powder in my shooting box just in case a "dry ball" happens. Remove the nipple and dribble a small amount of powder down into the hole (use a straightened aluminum paper clip to push the powder down and into the hole). Replace the nipple, cap and fire the musket. If your dry ball is a minnie, (as a minnie is undersized verses the bore), it should come out, as long as the bore isn't fowled too much. You probably don't need to use much powder, maybe no more powder than a priming charge of a flintlock (you do have a flintlock, don't you?), just a couple of grains of powder. (by weight, not kernels of powder). With just a few grains by weight you -will not- be creating a pipe bomb or ring the barrel but should create enough pressure to push that bullet out of the bore.

2nd method-
No.1 didn't work because you're shooting a tightly patched round ball, or the bore was really fowled. First, as a safety measure, I'd shoot a couple caps to make sure there's no residual powder behind the ball, and then pour some oil into the breach end of the bore just as additional safety measure as you'll be working in front of the muzzle. Next, squirt some oil into the bore to help soften and lubricate the bore. Put a saturated oiled patch on the cleaning rod and clean and lubricate the bore down to an in front of the bullet. Then take a steel range rod, (don't try this with a wooden ramrod!) and put the ball puller jag on it and insert it into the bore. The range rod needs to have a large handle on it, something that you can get a good grip on. Tap on the rod a bit to get the ball puller jag started into the bullet. The ball puller jag looks somewhat like a wood screw with a collar around its base to keep it centered in the bore. The problem with this method is as the ball puller enters the bullet, it will enlarge the bullet a bit making it tighter in the bore, but you have to engage the bullet puller deep enough into the bullet to get a good bite on it. You'll need someone to hold the musket steady while you begin to pull the range rod; don't jerk the rod, just keep on pulling it on a gradual basis and one of two things will happen. Either the ball will begin to move and once it does it should continue until it exits the bore, or, you'll strip the ball puller out of the bullet. If the second item occurs, hopefully you can screw it in the bullet further and pull it out, or you can find a ball puller that has larger threads and try it again.

3rd method.
Nothings working, so you pull the breach plug and drive the bullet out. Removing the breach plug is the-very-last-resort and thankfully I've never had to go beyond method #2.

You can get all of the items you need to do this at "Track of the Wolf"--> https://www.trackofthewolf.com

Look under "loading rod" for what I call a range rod, -->https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/830/1

You'll want at least four different jags for the loading rod: cleaning/loading jag, ball puller, patch puller, and breach face scraper, all of appropriate caliber for whatever calibers you shoot. Just make sure you buy a range rod that's long enough and that its threads match the threads of the jag. I use the range rod for all of my loading and cleaning, especially if the gun has a wooden ramrod.

I also have a range bag for each type of weapon I shoot; a bag for centerfire, one for muzzleloading, and one for my 45/70 Sharps. What I have in each of these bags is the culmination of 50+ years of shooting, so I can pretty much fix any problem that happens to me or someone else.

Wow! That's what I call a comprehensive post!! Thank for this...I am sure others will benefit too.

Nope, no flintlock's! Strictly a percussion type of guy when it comes to the antiques.