Parrott Gun Question

[Pvt_McIntire]

Folks,

Were Parrott guns always rifled or were some smoothbore versions manufactured at the beginning of the war? From what I can find, Robert Parrott patented his design as a rifled piece, so I tend to think that any that were produced were rifled. I can't find any documentation to support this, however.

The reason I'm asking is that our unit has an 1861 10lb. Parrott repro, but it is smoothbore (rifling was too expensive and we don't do live fire) and some of my comrades have been telling the general public that it is an "early war version" of the Parrott, so that is why it is smoothbore. I think this is wrong but don't want to say anything unless I've got some documentation.

Thanks!

 

[ole]

Can't help with the documentation, but it is my understanding that Parrotts were always rifled. But then, since joining this board, I've learned to not say never or always.

Possible solution. Have a woodworking compatriot cut a plug from a 2 x 6. Keep it in the muzzle and there won't be any questions about why it isn't rifled.

 

[CivilWarTalk]

I'm 99.9% positive that there were never any 10 or 20 lb Smoothbore Parrotts sold to the U.S. Government, that's not to say there weren't experimental castings made, or rejected castings that were never rifled....

I'd point to evidence of no 3" round balls, which would have been smaller than the balls of a 6 lb Smoothbore Gun, already being replaced at the start of the war.

 

[Pvt_McIntire]

Thanks for the info! What about Confederate copies? Were there any attempts to make Parrotts in the South that perhaps were smoothbores or did they rely on using captured guns? I know the 4th Maryland historically used captured Union Parrotts.

 

[johan_steele]

There were no smoothbore Parrots manufactured. HOWEVER, there were 10 lb Parrots that had their rifling shot out that continued in service as smoothbores for a short time as replacement guns were not always readily available. It was certainly not an early war tube, but may well have been one that had it's rifling shot out. Usually those pieces were recycled to the rear & replaced w/ 3" Ord Rifles.

Most likely what you have is a gun that was returned to Ord dept and then passed on somewhere.

There are a couple of US Batteries that shot the rifling out of various rifled guns during the Atlanta camoaign. I have no idea how many rounds it would take to shoot out the rifling but have heard the number is somehwere around 3k on a 3" Ord Rifle, but less on a Parrot.

As a note, you have a repop... not an original. Just tell the public it's a reproduction and the originals would have been rifled. Problem solved. A lot better than making something up. Makes your unit look bad when it's found to be fiction.

 

[Old Hickory]

johan is right, tell the public it's a reproduction and originals would have been rifled. There were two models of the 10lb. Parrot, the 1861, a 2.9 inch bore and the 1863, a 3 inch bore. These are easily to tell apart at a glance, the muzzle of the 1861 is flaired, the 1863 being straight. Parrots were cast iron with a wrought iron re-enforcement band sweatted around the breach for strength. Parrots were much heavier than Ordinance rifles, thus disquallifying them for service in the Horse artillery, (attached to cavalry). Yes, all Parrot rifles were rifled, as well as Ordinance rifles, (made of wrought iron).

Ammunition of the 1861 Parrot and the 1861 Ordinance rifles were not interchangeable, the 1861 Parrot being 2.9 inch and using a Parrot shell with an expandable skirt like a Minie bullet. The Ordinance rifle being 3 inch and using the Shenkle shell which used a sabot that expanded to give it spin in the rifling. The 1863 Parrot bores were 3 inch, (as stated before) and could use either 3 inch Parrot ammo, or 3 inch Shenkle shells as the Ordinance rifle.

 

[kansas]

The Confederates made parrots rifled, the 2.9s are still on their rolls in early 65, as well as parked in the yards after the war. They made a good many iron smoothbores but not on the parrot method or the parrot type. Field artillery types were 2.9,3.0, 2o pounder, some 30 pounders were in inventory for field use but were considered siege guns. That is by no means all the guns they had, made, borrowed, or bought, or fired by any means however.

 

[Pvt_McIntire]

Thanks everyone! I've been telling the public that we have a repro and that originals were rifled, but some of the other folks in the unit were using the "it's an early war model so it's not rifled" argument. I'm hoping to use your good posts to convince them that that is not true and not an acceptable explanation.

 

[Old Hickory]

Thanks everyone! I've been telling the public that we have a repro and that originals were rifled, but some of the other folks in the unit were using the "it's an early war model so it's not rifled" argument. I'm hoping to use your good posts to convince them that that is not true and not an acceptable explanation.

Good job! The above information can be either found on line, or through the National Park Service. GNP has an extensive collection of refrence books for sale either at the park or on line. "Double Canister At Ten Yards" by David Shultz is a good inexpensive book on the artillery repulse of Picket's Charge at Gettysburg complete with illistrations of the guns and ammunition used.

Good luck!

 

[Old Hickory]

BTW, on your next visit to Gettysburg, check out the twenty pound Parrots along the west side of the Emmitsburg road, they're very impressive pieces. They belonged to the Ashland, (Virginia) Artillery, commanded by Capt. Pichegru Woolfolk jr. They were fielded, but left in reserve on July 2. Woolfolk's Battery consisted of two twenty pound Parrots and two twelve pound Napolions...Quite an impressive display of fire power.

 

[Pvt_McIntire]

BTW, on your next visit to Gettysburg, check out the twenty pound Parrots along the west side of the Emmitsburg road, they're very impressive pieces. They belonged to the Ashland, (Virginia) Artillery, commanded by Capt. Pichegru Woolfolk jr. They were fielded, but left in reserve on July 2. Woolfolk's Battery consisted of two twenty pound Parrots and two twelve pound Napolions...Quite an impressive display of fire power.

Thank you, sir! I love checking out the guns at Gettysburg. I was quite surprised to find some breech loaders on display up by the Eternal Peace Flame and to find that they were indeed used during the battle.

 

[Old Hickory]

Thank you, sir! I love checking out the guns at Gettysburg. I was quite surprised to find some breech loaders on display up by the Eternal Peace Flame and to find that they were indeed used during the battle.

They were probably the Whitworth rifles of Hurt's Battery.

2.75-inch Whitworth Rifle. Imported from England by both North and South, only the Confederacy actively used these unique guns in the field. Designed by Sir Joseph Whitworth before the American Civil War, it fired an elongated 12-pound iron shell which fit snuggly into the fine rifling of the tube. It was also unusual in that it was a breechloader. A locking ring around the breech allowed the end of the gun to be opened so that the shell and powder charge could be loaded through the breech. The gun's unusual shape and distinctive shells were a curiosity when compared to other ordnance, though they were extremely accurate and could fire a solid shot beyond 2,800 yards. Two of the guns were in use by Hurt's Alabama Battery at Gettysburg and the shrill whine of the Whitworth shells was distinguishable above the roar of the cannonade before Pickett's Charge. Though the Whitworth cannon was very accurate, it had a myriad of problems with the breech mechanism. According to Colonel E.P. Alexander, the Whitworth was not as desirable a weapon as the 3-inch Ordnance Rifle.

 

[Pvt_McIntire]

They were probably the Whitworth rifles of Hurt's Battery.

2.75-inch Whitworth Rifle. Imported from England by both North and South, only the Confederacy actively used these unique guns in the field. Designed by Sir Joseph Whitworth before the American Civil War, it fired an elongated 12-pound iron shell which fit snuggly into the fine rifling of the tube. It was also unusual in that it was a breechloader. A locking ring around the breech allowed the end of the gun to be opened so that the shell and powder charge could be loaded through the breech. The gun's unusual shape and distinctive shells were a curiosity when compared to other ordnance, though they were extremely accurate and could fire a solid shot beyond 2,800 yards. Two of the guns were in use by Hurt's Alabama Battery at Gettysburg and the shrill whine of the Whitworth shells was distinguishable above the roar of the cannonade before Pickett's Charge. Though the Whitworth cannon was very accurate, it had a myriad of problems with the breech mechanism. According to Colonel E.P. Alexander, the Whitworth was not as desirable a weapon as the 3-inch Ordnance Rifle.

Thanks--I'm sure that's what they were. I remember reading that in general, most of them were only able to fire a few rounds before the breech mechanism jammed. Hence the artillery was slow to embrace this new technology.

 

[M E Wolf]

This may prove interesting:

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XXVIII/2 [S# 47]
Correspondence, Orders, And Returns Relating To Operations On The Coasts Of South Carolina And Georgia, And In Middle And East Florida, From June 12 To December 31, 1863.
CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE, ETC.--#10
CHARLESTON, September 25, 1863.
Lieut. Col. J. R. WADDY,
Chief of Ordnance Department:
COLONEL: On the 24th instant I inspected the ordnance and ordnance stores at the following batteries: Haskell, Tatom, Ryan, and Redoubt No. 1, eastern lines, all under the command of Maj. Edward Manigault, and have the honor to submit the following report:
[excerpt]
I beg leave to entail upon you the trouble of reading the following remarks in reference to the alteration of guns from smooth to rifled, the banding of guns, weight of projectiles, the wear and tear of carriages, which is deemed important to the economy of ordnance, and of your consideration. The conclusions arrived at are based on the evidence of facts and experience in the field, and will be placed before you as concisely as a clear expression will admit.

First. Some manufacturers of ordnance deny the fact that a gun is weakened by rifling, and attribute their frequent bursting to the heavier projectiles used. While there is some truth as regards weight of projectiles, it is a fact that the fractures in rifled guns follow the edge of the groove exactly as ice and granite fracture in lines cut upon the surface. It is known that acute re-entering angles upon the surface of guns are the usual lines of rupture, hence the present external form of guns without moldings. From these facts, no rifled guns should have acute or sharp-edged grooves, but a flattened curve thus /¯¯¯¯¯¯\ as a Parrott, which, though it does not remedy the injury from rifling, has been proved to be the least injurious form.

Second. Banded guns, facts and experience prove, to be weaker at the breech than at the re-enforce, as of four which I have examined on the front of our defenses, all have fractured square at the vent, throwing the breech to the rear. If the breech is strengthened, explosions would not be so frequent. It would be economical, therefore, to use the wrought-iron shackles of Captain Brooke, although the expense of banding would be double. Some suppose this arrangement weakens the trunnion, but it is a mistake. A trunnion that is not previously fractured is never torn off by the recoil, which shock it is only subjected to, and to which the additional weight of the shackle would add but little momentum. An improvement on this plan would be to cast or turn off a hemispherical breech, over which fit a wrought-iron band accurately adjusted, and over this the trunnion shackle, or any other method that would secure the breech in a wrought-iron shell in close or firm contact with the cast iron.

Third. We are certainly in error as regards weight of elongated projectiles, which requires immediate correction for effective service, as well as on the score of economy. We must have some safe, fixed limit determined for the weight of shot, beyond which weight it should be made penal to serve, for we cannot afford experiments in the field, excepting at the cost of dismantling our works, and this it would be more judicious, as well as economical, to leave to the prowess of the enemy.
[excerpt]
Indorsements.]
HEADQUARTERS ORDNANCE DEPARTMENT,
Charleston, October 14, 1863.
Respectfully forwarded to department headquarters.
The defects referred to in the Blakely projectiles have been before reported upon, and I am informed by the commanding officer of the arsenal that they are the same projectiles sent from England with the guns. Some of this officer's ideas on rifling guns are good. Other suggestions are approved.
J. R. WADDY,
Chief of Ordnance.

-----
OCTOBER 16, 1863.
Send extract relating to rifling of guns, &c., to Colonel Rains, of Augusta Arsenal, for his views and such instructions as he thinks ought to be given on the subject.
G. T. B. [BEAUREGARD],
General, Commanding.
-----
These tables might be interesting as well:

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME VI, Chapter XV [S# 6]
APRIL 10-11, 1862.--Bombardment and capture of Fort Pulaski, Ga.
No. 5. -- Reports of Brig. Gen. Quincy A. Gillmore, U. S. Army, of operations against Fort Pulaski, January 28-April 11, 1862.
HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT OF SOUTH CAROLINA,
Hilton Head, S.C., October 20, 1865.
SIR: I have the honor to submit the following report, compiled from my original report to the Chief Engineer, of operations against Fort Pulaski, Ga., resulting in its capitulation to the United States forces under my immediate command on the 11th day of April, 1862:
[excerpt]
The armament comprised 36 pieces, distributed in eleven batteries, at various distances from the fort, as shown in the following table:
1. Battery Stanton, three heavy 13-inch mortars, at 3,400 yards.
2. Battery Grant, three heavy 13-inch mortars, at 3,200 yards.
3. Battery Lyon, three heavy 10-inch columbiads, at 3,100 yards.
4. Battery Lincoln, three heavy 8-inch columbiads, at 3,045 yards.
5. Battery Burnside, one heavy 13-inch mortar. at 2,750 yards.
6. Battery Sherman, three heavy 13-inch mortars, at 2,650 yards.
7. Battery Halleck, two heavy 13-inch mortars, at 2,400 yards.
8. Battery Scott, three 10-inch and one 8-inch columbiad, at 1,740 yards.
9. Battery Sigel, five 30-pounder Parrotts and one 48-pounder James (old 24-pounder), at 1,670 yards.
10. Battery McClellan, two 84-pounder James (old 42-pounder) and two 64-pounder James (old 32-pounder), at 1,650 yards.
11. Battery Totten, four 10-inch siege mortars, at 1,650 yards.
-----------
As far as Parrotts being rifled or not -- this may support the facts that the Parrotts were rifled.

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME 2 [S# 2] -- CHAPTER IX.
CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN MARYLAND, PENNSYLVANIA, VIRGINIA, AND WEST VIRGINIA FROM APRIL 16 TO JULY 31, 1861.
CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE, ETC.--#1
RICHMOND, VA., April 29, 1861.
Col. R. S. GARNETT,
Adjutant-General, Virginia Army, Richmond, Va.:
SIR: I have the honor to report that there are three light artillery batteries now together at the artillery barracks, Baptist Seminary, viz: Randolph's (of six pieces, called the Howitzer Battery), Cabell's (four pieces of light artillery), and Latham's (four pieces of light artillery). Two pieces will be added to Randolph's battery, he having two hundred and twenty-five drilled men in his company. I propose that these two pieces should be Parrotts rifled cannon, as being more nearly the weight of Randolph's howitzers, which are of the Dahlgren pattern.

I have to request that the battery of rifled cannon (Parrotts), now in charge of Captain Walker, and some forty men, not mustered into service, and now at Fredericksburg, Va., be ordered to the artillery barracks near this place, and, after turning over their cannon and implements, that Captain Walker's company (if it can be made up to its proper complement) be received into the artillery service and drilled, so as to be ready for service with any battery that may be prepared for it.

[end of excerpt]


-----
O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME XI/2 [S# 13]
PENINSULAR CAMPAIGN--SEVEN DAYS' BATTLES
No. 226--Guns captured at Frazier's Farm and Malvern Hill, taken from the field by Col. J. T. Brown, First Regiment Virginia Artillery
A Condition of gun D With whom exchanged
B To whom delivered. E Condition and caliber of guns exchanged
C By whom owned. F Remarks.

# of guns. Caliber and description of guns A B C D E F
7 12-pounder Napoleon guns Spiked Major Walker United States .... .... Some of these guns were sent to
1 12-pounder field howitzer …do…. …do…. …do…. .... .... Richmond; others exchanged on the field
6 10-pounder rifle Parrotts …do…. …do…. …do…. .... .... They were all brought from the
2 20-pounder rifle Parrotts …do…. …do…. …do…. .... .... field of battle by Lieutenant-Colonel Coleman.
1 10-pounder rifle Parrott Spiked and carriage broken Fayette Artillery. …do…. Fayette Artillery. 1 State rifle This was given the Fayette because so much broken as to be unable to be removed.
1 24-pounder field howitzer. Good Richmond .... .... ....

Having the proof of the "Official Records of the Rebellion" as documented proof that the Parrott was a rifled weapon for both Confederate and Union.

M. E. Wolf

 

[Pvt_McIntire]

This is fantastic! You're better than the National Archives! Thanks so much.

 

[M E Wolf]

Private McIntire, sir;

Pleasure to be of assistance sir.

I do find this link helpful as well:
U.S. Regulars Civil War Archive Main Page

Mar 12, 2009 ... MILITARY ADMINISTRATION. VOLUNTEER MANUALS ... MEXICAN WAR. Regimental Histories of the Regular Army ... U.S. Regulars Archive is a library of key works on Civil War strategy, tactics & drill used by the Regular Army, ...
www.usregulars.com/ - Similar

Gibbon's Artillery Manual

The Artillerists Manual, ​

Compiled from Various Sources, ​

and Adapted to ​

the Service of the United States ​

Illustrated by Engravings.​

by ​

Brig.-Gen John GIBBON, ​

U. S. VOLS.​

CAPTAIN FOURTH ARTILLERY, U. S. ARMY. ​

SECOND EDITION, REVISED AND ENLARGED.​

(New York: D. Van Nostrand, 1863).​

Expired Image Removed

CONTENTS. ​

PREFACE
CHAPTER I. . GUNPOWDER
CHAPTER II. ORDNANCE
CHAPTER III. FORM OF ORDNANCE.--MATERIALS
CHAPTER IV. RIFLES

Origin, Theory; Cutting Grooves; Length; Inclination; Slugged; English; Carabine a Tige; Elongated Bullets; Bullets for Altered Muskets; Bullets for the New Rifled-musket and Pistol-carbine; Rifled Cannon; Parrott's Rifle; United States Rifles; Dyers Projectile; Hotchkiss Projectile; Armstrong Gun; Cavalli Gun.
​

CHAPTER V. PROJECTILES

PROJECTILES; Solid Shot; Calibre; Canister Shot; Bullets; Rifles and Artillery; HOLLOW SHOT; Shells; Spherical Case of Schrapnel; Carcasses; Grenades; War-Rockets; Congreve's Rocket; Hales' Rocket; Moulding; Casting; Core; Polishing; Materials; Inspecting; Callipers; Gauges; Preservation.
​

CHAPTER VI. ARTILLERY CARRIAGES, MATERIAL, ETC

Artillery Material; Valliere's System; Gribeauval's System; U.S. Carriages; Movable Carriages; FIELD MATERIAL; Gun Carriages; The Caisson; The Battery Wagon; The Forge; Mountain Artillery; The Carriage; The Prarie Carriage; The Portable Forge; The Bellows; Siege Material; Platforms; Mortar Wagons; Mortar-Beds; Carts; The Field and Siege Gun; To Sling a Piece; Barbette-carriages; The Gun-carriage; The Columbiad Carriage; The Garrison Gun; The large Sling-cart; The Lifting-Jack; The Lever-Jack; Manoeuvering-blocks; Sea-coast Material; Heavy Sea-coast Mortar-beds; The Casemate Gun; The Casemate Truck.
​

CHAPTER VII. THE THEORY OF FIRE

Target Practice; Velocity; Recoil; Theory of Fire; Mean Trajectory; Windage; Drift; Wind; Other Causes; The Marksman; Distances; Stadia; French Schools of Practice.
​

CHAPTER VIII. THE PRACTICE OF FIRE

Solid Shot; Shells; Trajectory; Ricochets; Loading; Charges; To load with hot shot; Paixhan guns; Ricochet Firing; Pointing; Long Guns; Mortars; Night Firing; Solid Shot from Guns; Shells; Mortar Shells; Time of Flight; Rapidity of Firing; Recoil; Tables of Fire; Breaching. ​

CHAPTER IX. FUZES
CHAPTER X. ARTILLERY IMPLEMENTS
CHAPTER XI. AMMUNITION
CHAPTER XII. FIELD ARTILLERY

Origin; Use; Quantity; Divided; Fire; Organization; Marches; Mountain Artillery; Forage; Ammunition; Parking; Attacked; Tactics; Attack; Defense; Projectiles; Woods. Attacking; Defending; Defiles Attacking; Posts, Towns, &c., Attacking and Defense; Entrenchments, Attack and Defense; Retreat.
​

CHAPTER XIII. ATTACK AND DEFENSE OF FORTIFIED PLACES

Seiges; Military Reconnaissances; Batteries; Kind; Tracing; Forming; Traverses; Mortar Batteries; Breaching Batteries; Defense; Sea-Coast Defenses;
​

==============================================
Note the "Rifled Parrott"--this site has copied the manual as well as illustrations.
Respectfully submitted,
M. E. Wolf

 

[ExNavyPilot]

I have another question (actually, two) regarding the 10 pdr Parrott, these questions dealing with canister rounds. "What size (diameter) were the balls?", and "How many balls per canister?" I purchased a 3/4" iron ball from an artifact shop at Stones River (cost just a couple bucks), and I believe the dealer said it was from a Parrott canister. Does this sound right? I understand that 12 pdr howitzer canister normally contained 48 iron shots of about an inch in diameter while 12 pdr guns (Napoleons) fired canister with 27 shots of about 1.5" diameter. Of course, the 10 pder (2.9") Parrotts weren't the ideal weapons for firing canister--their smaller bore limited the size and number of iron shots and the rifling caused an uneven dispersal of the shot--but this was better than nothing.
This is really getting into the weeds here, but I figure there's someone out there who has the answer.

 

[ole]

You're not in the weeds, EX. Somebody here knows.

 

[BillO]

The 1st Rockbridge Artillery, Archibald Graham commanding of Dances' Battalion carried 4 20pdr. parrots to and back from Gettysburg.

 

[Ellsworth avenger]

I have another question (actually, two) regarding the 10 pdr Parrott, these questions dealing with canister rounds. "What size (diameter) were the balls?", and "How many balls per canister?" I purchased a 3/4" iron ball from an artifact shop at Stones River (cost just a couple bucks), and I believe the dealer said it was from a Parrott canister. Does this sound right? I understand that 12 pdr howitzer canister normally contained 48 iron shots of about an inch in diameter while 12 pdr guns (Napoleons) fired canister with 27 shots of about 1.5" diameter. Of course, the 10 pder (2.9") Parrotts weren't the ideal weapons for firing canister--their smaller bore limited the size and number of iron shots and the rifling caused an uneven dispersal of the shot--but this was better than nothing.
This is really getting into the weeds here, but I figure there's someone out there who has the answer.

That's a great question and in better detail than i could have asked.I have been curious about the size of cannister loads for awhile, but felt a little ignorant in presenting the question properly.