Uniforms Opinions on a Possible State Jacket

[CyleKostello]

Hi all,

From these poor photos can anything be gleaned about this jacket (Authentic/copy, civil war/Indian wars)?

t's from an estate that had multiple authentic items ID'd to one soldier. 9 button front, two cuff buttons and an interior pocket.

It's not a pattern I'm familiar with, maybe a state jacket?

Thanks in advance!

 

[peacefulanimalguy7]

It's probably a Civil War shell jacket from either Illinois or Ohio

https://andersonszouaves.tripod.com...uilderfiles/forgottenfederalgarmentspart1.pdf this article shows and describes a couple of versions that appeared

 

[Package4]

Very difficult to say from the poor-quality pictures, the tell will be the button backs and the buttonholes, just on the pictures alone I am leaning post war. Hand sewn buttonholes and period back marks would date it earlier.

I guess key would also be learning more about the soldier in question, did he have subsequent service post war etc?

 

[CyleKostello]

Very difficult to say from the poor-quality pictures, the tell will be the button backs and the buttonholes, just on the pictures alone I am leaning post war. Hand sewn buttonholes and period back marks would date it earlier.

I guess key would also be learning more about the soldier in question, did he have subsequent service post war etc?

Thanks! According to the family lore the soldier in question DOW in 1864. I've verified through HDS that the soldier did actually DOW in 64. But no telling if this jacket came from a relative that had subsequent service.

He enlisted in late 1863 so the jacket may have been a private purchase with his enlistment bounty.

 

[RedRover]

Looks like sewing machine stitching on the cuffs. Also, the double-stitching on the back seams perhaps. Reminds me of modern "sutler row" jackets at reenactments.

Sutler row jacket (left), versus example in original post inquiry (right):

Sutler row jacket (left), compared to inquiry jacket (right);

Compare the tailoring of the above to some 1860s examples...

 

[major bill]

I have seen jackets some what similar called 'veteran jackets'. It appears that when soldiers got a reenlist bonus and a leave to go home they had money to spare. They did not want to go home in a ragged uniform and private purchased a jacket they liked.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

The machine sewn button holes and machine felled seams give this the dead ring of an inauthentic reproduction.

 

[Package4]

The machine sewn button holes and machine felled seams give this the dead ring of an inauthentic reproduction.

I would agree the button holes, if machine sewn disqualify the piece as ACW, but the felling is not an absolute disqualifier. I have an unlined sack coat with felled seams from SA, yes hand sewn and flat felled as all SA unlined sack coats were. I don't like the collar, but there are some aspects to the jacket that look right. The lining does not look at all like sutler row and the pocket looks right. The button holes going into the lining are troubling..............the fabric looks like that of IW or later material.

 

[RedRover]

I would agree the button holes, if machine sewn disqualify the piece as ACW, but the felling is not an absolute disqualifier. I have an unlined sack coat with felled seams from SA, yes hand sewn and flat felled as all SA unlined sack coats were. I don't like the collar, but there are some aspects to the jacket that look right. The lining does not look at all like sutler row and the pocket looks right. The button holes going into the lining are troubling..............the fabric looks like that of IW or later material.

Indeed.
Per the images, the 20th Century pattern, wide shoulders, over-large arm-scye, etc. is a red flag. The generic repros use something akin a modified pajamas pattern for ease of machine assembly. There is no standard make on reproductions. They run the gamut, and have been declining in overall quality for decades to reduce price, etc. with most now entirely unlined. I've seen some of the recent variants with a wool that is nothing more than sleazy rug-hooking felt. But the patterns are basically the same since the 70s except where tailored from an 1860s pattern.

 

[Package4]

Indeed.
Per the images, the 20th Century pattern, wide shoulders, over-large arm-scye, etc. is a red flag. The generic repros use something akin a modified pajamas pattern for ease of machine assembly. There is no standard make on reproductions. They run the gamut, and have been declining in overall quality for decades to reduce price, etc. with most now entirely unlined. I've seen some of the recent variants with a wool that is nothing more than sleazy rug-hooking felt. But the patterns are basically the same since the 70s except where tailored from an 1860s pattern.

What gave me pause from the beginning is the appearance of very stiff wool, this can not be faked, wool stiffens over many years due to the loss of lanolin. The centennial uniforms have yet to stiffen in this manner, thus I think this might be a late 19th century something. I am still troubled by the collar as it should be able to be closed by a hook and eye…….

I am with you on the pattern, it does look rather large in the shoulders, but the prevalence of machine sewing does not preclude IW or even ACW for that matter, though it is extremely doubtful this jacket may be found to be remotely ACW.

 

[Package4]

Hi all,

From these poor photos can anything be gleaned about this jacket (Authentic/copy, civil war/Indian wars)?

t's from an estate that had multiple authentic items ID'd to one soldier. 9 button front, two cuff buttons and an interior pocket.

It's not a pattern I'm familiar with, maybe a state jacket?

Thanks in advance!

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Were there reenactment pieces as well at the estate sale?

 

[CyleKostello]

Were there reenactment pieces as well at the estate sale?

No reenactment pieces. Only other CW items were a towel with the (alleged) soldiers name and a 19th century flask. Trying to find a time to go look at the jacket in person.

 

[7thWisconsin]

Is there any possibllity that it was cut down from a frock coat?

 

[RetiredCanuck]

Is there any possibllity that it was cut down from a frock coat?

I don't see that as likely. The body lining of a frock coat is stitched directly to the top of the skirt. There is no inner woolen border on the bottom hem. In this case the roundabout does have the inner woolen border that matches the rest of the material in the garment.

As mentioned in a previous post above, I'm also looking at that felled seam on the shoulder joint between the back and front pieces. I don't recall ever seeing that before.