Oops!!! Shooting The Hanging Targets On The Wrong Frame!!!

Southron

Sergeant
Joined
Dec 27, 2011
At this past N-SSA Nationals my grown son shot on his region's "All Star Team." They were doing fine in the competition until the Team Commander "botched it" in one event by shooting the targets on the WRONG FRAME!

Not only did he bust several targets on the frame of the team shooting next to our All Star Team [helping out that team tremendously] but when he busted the last one on that other team's frame he called "TIME" which "stopped the clock" on his team!

This was a "double whammy" to our All Star Team because he cut the time of the next door team by destroying several of their targets but our team was penalized because our team had 4 targets left unbroken on our frame.

Any chance our team had of winning the All Star Team Match after his blunder was "Gone With The Wind."

However, there is a rumor going around that the members of our Region are "Quick To Forgive & Forget." That rumor is incorrect because several of us took a "blood oath" to keep reminding him and his team members of his blunder "until Hell freezes over."

Shooting the targets on the wrong frame usually seems to be confined to Rookies and Skirmishers who have drilled a a peep hole in their rear sights. This probably accounts for the blunder of our All Star Team's commander. Choosing whether to use a peep or open sight is one of the "Dilemmas" Skirmishes face:

Peep Hole rear sights are acknowledged to be the most accurate form of iron sights. Matter of fact, back in the 1930's prior to the adoption of the M-1 Garand Rifle the Ordnance Department went to a lot of trouble doing research to optimize the features of the soon to be adopted Garand Rifle. For example:

The height, weight and length of arm measurements for all recruits that joined the army in a 12 month period were averaged to find the statue of the "average soldier." The stock length and drop of the Garand was designed specifically to fit that "average soldier."

Opticians and High Power Shooters that competed in the National Matches at Camp Perry were consulted and here is the "gist" of their comments.

When using open sights the human eye is supposed to do three things, all at the same time, that is impossible to do: namely focus on the notch of the rear sight, focus on the front sight and focus on the target. Unfortunately, the human eye can focus only on one thing at a time-hence the advice to shooters of open sights to focus on the "Front Sight."

With a peep sight, the human eye "automatically" centers itself on the hole in the rear sight leaf so the shooter has only two things to attempt to focus on-the front sight and the target. Hence, peep sights are more "accurate." This is why the Ordnance Department decided to use a peep rear sight on the M-1 Garand.

So the "Dilemma" that Skirmishers face is whether to use the most accurate rear sight (the peep) that makes it easy to mistakenly shoot on another team's target frame OR the "fastest" rear sight which is the open rear sight. Because the view on both sides of the open rear sight is not blocked out, then one is less likely to mistakenly shoot the targets on the wrong frame.

It is what I call "The Skirmishers Dilemma."

Oh yes, did I mention the blunder of our All Star Team Commander???????
 
Figures. I understand the All Star Team Commander is direct descendant of a soldier in the 18th North Carolina at Chancellorsville.
 
Dear Ami:

My son and I are in the 24th Georgia-drop by our campsite at the next Nationals! You will be Welcome!

All My Best
Southron

P.S. Did I mention the blunder our All Star Team Commander made?
 
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Dear AndyHall:

The Commander of our All Star Team is beloved by all the members of our region. At one time, because of his outstanding marksmanship and all around wonderful personality, he was considered to be a tad better than mere mortal man-yet, his blunder proves that he is mortal after all.

I don't know if our All Star Team Commander is the descendent of a soldier in the 18th North Carolina or not, but many Skirmishers in the Carolina Region have illustrious ancestors. one of my G-G Grandfathers, Francis Marion Warren was a member of Company D of the 61st Georgia Volunteer Infantry Regiment. You can read the book about his regiment here-he is even mentioned in the book.

http://archive.org/stream/01494987.3402.emory.edu/01494987_3402#page/n5/mode/2up
 
When I first jined up I was told I needed a peepsite. I really couldn't tell were I was on the individual targets at all and it was a little slower acquiring targets in the team events. I have recently gone back to open sites and I just close them in a little.
 
At this past N-SSA Nationals my grown son shot on his region's "All Star Team." They were doing fine in the competition until the Team Commander "botched it" in one event by shooting the targets on the WRONG FRAME!

Not only did he bust several targets on the frame of the team shooting next to our All Star Team [helping out that team tremendously] but when he busted the last one on that other team's frame he called "TIME" which "stopped the clock" on his team!

This was a "double whammy" to our All Star Team because he cut the time of the next door team by destroying several of their targets but our team was penalized because our team had 4 targets left unbroken on our frame.

Any chance our team had of winning the All Star Team Match after his blunder was "Gone With The Wind."

However, there is a rumor going around that the members of our Region are "Quick To Forgive & Forget." That rumor is incorrect because several of us took a "blood oath" to keep reminding him and his team members of his blunder "until Hell freezes over."

Shooting the targets on the wrong frame usually seems to be confined to Rookies and Skirmishers who have drilled a a peep hole in their rear sights. This probably accounts for the blunder of our All Star Team's commander. Choosing whether to use a peep or open sight is one of the "Dilemmas" Skirmishes face:

Peep Hole rear sights are acknowledged to be the most accurate form of iron sights. Matter of fact, back in the 1930's prior to the adoption of the M-1 Garand Rifle the Ordnance Department went to a lot of trouble doing research to optimize the features of the soon to be adopted Garand Rifle. For example:

The height, weight and length of arm measurements for all recruits that joined the army in a 12 month period were averaged to find the statue of the "average soldier." The stock length and drop of the Garand was designed specifically to fit that "average soldier."

Opticians and High Power Shooters that competed in the National Matches at Camp Perry were consulted and here is the "gist" of their comments.

When using open sights the human eye is supposed to do three things, all at the same time, that is impossible to do: namely focus on the notch of the rear sight, focus on the front sight and focus on the target. Unfortunately, the human eye can focus only on one thing at a time-hence the advice to shooters of open sights to focus on the "Front Sight."

With a peep sight, the human eye "automatically" centers itself on the hole in the rear sight leaf so the shooter has only two things to attempt to focus on-the front sight and the target. Hence, peep sights are more "accurate." This is why the Ordnance Department decided to use a peep rear sight on the M-1 Garand.

So the "Dilemma" that Skirmishers face is whether to use the most accurate rear sight (the peep) that makes it easy to mistakenly shoot on another team's target frame OR the "fastest" rear sight which is the open rear sight. Because the view on both sides of the open rear sight is not blocked out, then one is less likely to mistakenly shoot the targets on the wrong frame.

It is what I call "The Skirmishers Dilemma."

Oh yes, did I mention the blunder of our All Star Team Commander???????
I did that myself at a nationals one year. I was shooting the carbine team, I was at the end of the team and at the sound of the horn I hit the nearest target of the next frame. I caught myself right away, but I was kind of rattled and didn't hit another thing! LOL
 
I was at N-SSA Nationals and felt the frames were out of place, felt like we were shooting at a far greater angle than usual ,commented to some one shooting next to me and he had same perception. May be an optical illusion?? Had to look for and focus on frame ID to make sure where to aim... I usually shoot in the middle and was on the right end for Carbine and thought that was why. Musket match I was back in middle and had the same sense of something amiss.. I'm rambling.. done..Expired Image Removed
 
One solution to the problem might be to paint frames that are next to each other contrasting colors. For example, a line of frames might be painted like this:

RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE. etc.,

Down here in the South at some of our Skirmishes, we just naturally paint all of our frames BLUE because shooting at something blue is an old and highly honored Southern Tradition. Old habits are hard to break. (No pun intended.)
 
IN 1969 I worked th National matches at Camp Perry as a judge in the pits. one of the targets had 2 sighters and 19 rounds in the bull with about 15 Vs That 2oth round missed everything wasn't on any of the other targets in the area.
Things happen, if you haven't had it happen ,you will if you shoot enough. Smile, have a good time telling about it but the odds are you will do something just as crazy, sooner or later.
 
One solution to the problem might be to paint frames that are next to each other contrasting colors. For example, a line of frames might be painted like this:

RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE-RED-BLUE. etc.,

Down here in the South at some of our Skirmishes, we just naturally paint all of our frames BLUE because shooting at something blue is an old and highly honored Southern Tradition. Old habits are hard to break. (No pun intended.)
A very good tradition.
 
Ah yes-Good Ole Camp Perry!

Back in 1977 I was working in the pits at Camp Perry in the National Matches. At Camp Perry the "Pits" are really a misnomer because you actually work behind a built up earth and concrete wall berm capped by a couple of layers of sandbags that is built on a beach at Lake Erie.

The targets are on counterbalanced metal racks so you can pull them down to "mark" or repair the bullet holes in the target and then push them up to be shot again. Fun things to do? Look out to Lake Erie during the shooting and see the splashes from the bullets hitting the water a couple of hundred yards (and further) off shore.

Safely behind the berm, you get used to hearing the "Flat Crack" of supersonic 7.62 M/M bullets passing safely over your head to hit the targets. During the rapid fire events there is even a "confetti rain" of sorts of tiny bits of paper of the targets floating down when the bullets hit the paper.

I recall one afternoon when a BAM's (Lady Marine) turn came to shoot on the target I was working. It was a rapid fire event. When the shooting started I was stunned by her bullets hitting the top of the sandbags and I was personally showered with flying sand!

My only thought was to stop the firing, so I stripped off the white T-Shirt I was wearing, placed it on the top of the handle of one of the brooms we had in the pits and started waving it above the now shot up sandbags. THE FIRING STOPPED IMMEDIATELY!

When the shooting event was over, we received an inquiry from the firing line: "Why was someone waving that white flag in the Pits?" My reply: "To tell whoever was doing the shooting that WE (the pit crew) SURRENDER!"

What happened? Either someone had really played a joke on the BAM by adjusting the sights on her NM M-14 way low or she had mistakenly depressed her sights an awful lot because all of her bullets hit the sandbags rather than the target!

Moral of the story: When working the Pits keep your head down!!!
 

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