Official Records

Southron_98

Private
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
The yankee revisionist argue so venomously against black Confederates because they claim Southroners use the act of blacks fighting for the South to justify the reasons for the war; the only people who really claim that are the yankee revisionist. Lets talk facts for a minute if you have not served in combat you have no idea about the "fog of war", decisions and actions that if you lived to be 1000 you would never do again. I refused decorations on just that account it was not bravery but necessity.

Several persons who have argued against the black issues for more than several years have recently changed their minds in all likelihood you will probabaly see a court case which will resolve it once and for all. (That is a lie we all know whomever loses will continue arguing their side and claiming there was a conspericy, bribes something besides facts that caused them to lose their argument).

I don't know but a few individuals who claim there were black units, most agree until the end of the war there were no groups. However there are a growing number of documents describing blacks in a combat role.

My argument which I am going to try to prove this summer what kept 4000, 3000 slaves from fleeing, from attacking the troops?

Many revisionist are claiming the yanks made up these stories to justify the USCT. Really I just don't see the arguments in any papers, notes or a matter of facts anywhere. NOTE: One more thing many instances were made after the USCT was already in the field.

The Official Records constitute the most extensive collection of primary sources of the history of the war. They include selected first-hand accounts, orders, reports, maps, diagrams, and correspondence drawn from War and Navy Department records of both Confederate and Union governments. Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805, Lt. Col. Parkhurst's Report (Ninth Michigan Infantry) on General Forrest's attack at Murfreesboro, Tenn, July 13,1862: "There were also quite a number of Negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."


Official Records, Series 1, Volume 15, Part 1, Pages 137-138, report of the Union commander: "Pickets were thrown out that night, and Captain Hennessy, Company E, of the Ninth Connecticut, having been sent out with his company, captured a colored rebel scout, well mounted, who had been sent out to watch our movements."

Official Records, Series I, Vol. XLIX, Part n, pg. 253 - April 6, 1865 "The rebels [Forrest] are recruiting negro troops at Enterprise, Miss., and the negroes are all enrolled in the State." Official Records, Series I, Vol. XIV, pg. 24, second paragraph, Colonel B. C. Christ, 50th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, official report of May 30, 1862, Pocotaligo, SC., "It is also difficult to state the force of the enemy, but it could not have been less than from 600 to 800. There were six companies of mounted riflemen, besides infantry, among which were a considerable number of colored men."

Official Records, Vol. XIII, Chapter XXV, pg. 688 - "...We are not likely to use one negro where the rebels have used a thousand. When I left Arkansas they were still enrolling negroes to fortify the rebellion." - September, 1862

Official Records, Correspondence, Etc., Vol. II, pg. 218 - "...they [the Confederacy] have, by means of sweeping conscription, gathered in countless hordes, and threaten to overwhelm the armies of the Union, with blood and treason in their hearts. They flaunt the black flag of rebellion in the face of the Government, and threaten to butcher our brave and loyal armies with foreign bayonets. They arm negroes and merciless savages in their behalf." - July 11, 1862 - Rich D. Yates, Governor of Illinois

Official Records, Vol. XIX, Chapter XXXI, pg. 617 - Record of the Harper's Ferry Military Commission (U.S. Army) Question. "Do you know of any individual of the enemy having been killed or wounded during the siege of Harper's Ferry?" Answer. "I have strong reasons to believe that there was a negro killed, who had wounded 2 or 3 of my men. I know that an officer took deliberate aim at him, and he fell over. He was one of the skirmishers of the enemy [Confederate, ed.], and wounded 3 of my men. I know there must have been some of the enemy killed." Question. "How do you know the negro was killed?" Answer. "The officer saw him fall."

Official Records: Series 2, Vol. 6, Part 1 (Prisoners of War) p. 17-18 - "...before one single negro or mulatto was mustered into the U.S. service you had them organized in arms in Louisiana. You had Indians and half-breed negroes and Indians organized in arms under Albert Pike, in Arkansas. Subsequently negroes were captured on the battle-field at Antietam and delivered as prisoners of war at Aiken's Landing to the Confederate authorities, and receipted for and counted in exchange."

Official Records, Vol. XLI, Chapter LIII, pg. 670 - PATTERSON, [November] 24, 1864 - "Colonel MAUPIN: I have arrived with my squad on return. Captain McClanahan has gone on the upper road for Pilot Knob; will all arrive there to-morrow. No rebel force below. We have turned up eleven bushwhackers to dry and one rebel negro. No man hurt on our side. The men are generally well."


Official Records, Series 1, Volume 4, p.569 - Report of Colonel John W. Phelps, First Vermont Infantry: CAMP BUTLER, Newport News, Va., August 11, 1861 - "SIR: Scouts from this post represent the enemy as having retired. they came to New Market Bridge on Wednesday, and left the next day. They-the enemy-talked of having 9,000 men. They were recalled by dispatches from Richmond. They had twenty pieces of artillery, among which was the Richmond Howitzer Battery, manned by negroes. . . Their numbers are probably overrated; but with regard to their artillery, and its being manned in part by negroes, I think the report is probably correct. "

Official Records, Series 1, vol 35, Part 1 (Olustee), Page 442-443, S.C., FLA., AND ON THE GA. COAST. Chapter XLVII - Report of Bgen Asboth, USA: "...when I proceeded to Milton, Fla., a distance of 9 miles, and after rebuilding the destroyed bridge on the Arcadia Creek, I came upon the enemy, about 100 strong, and consisting of Captain Goldsby's (Alabama) cavalry company and a new militia infantry company, mounted...Having received early information of the arrival of two army steamers at Bayou Mulatte, the enemy had sent his stores on seven wagons in time toward Pollard, and seemed prepared and decided to accept a fight in the camp at the upper end of the town, but fled, upon our impetuous charge, in all directions. We pursued them closely for 7 miles, and captured 4 privates of Goldsby's company and 3 colored men, mounted and armed, with 7 horses and 5 mules with equipments, and 20 Austrian rifles."

Official Records, Series I, Vol. XVII, Chapter XXIX, Pg. 635-637 - December 28, 1863 - "...It had to be prosecuted under the fire of the enemy's sharpshooters, protected as well as the men might be by our skirmishers on the bank, who were ordered to keep up so vigorous a fire that the enemy should not dare to lift their heads above their rifle-pits; but the enemy, and especially their armed negroes, did dare to rise and fire, and did serious execution upon our men...The casualties in the brigade were 11 killed, 40 wounded, and 4 missing; aggregate, 55. - Very respectfully, your obedient servant, D. STUART, Brigadier-General, Commanding"

Official Records, Series I, Vol. III, Correspondence, etc., pg 767-768 - "CAMBRIDGE, September 4, 1863. His Excellency A. LINCOLN, President of the United States: "...excitement here growing out of the recruiting of colored troops, and as some of the recruiting officers are acting rather indiscreetly, I fear, by taking slaves in their recruits, and the slaves of loyal as well as disloyal persons...to enlist slaves as well as free people is creating a great deal of anxiety among the people...we ought to use the colored people, after the rebels commenced to use them against us".

Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805, Lt. Col. Parkhurst's Report (Ninth Michigan Infantry) on General Forrest's attack at Murfreesboro, Tenn, July 13,1862: "There were also quite a number of Negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."

May 10, 1862, Harper's Weekly "THE correspondent of the New York Herald, in one of its late numbers, reports that the rebels had a regiment of mounted negroes, armed with sabers, at Manassas, and that some five hundred Union prisoners taken at Bull Run were escorted to their filthy prison by a regiment of black men. There is little doubt also, that the fortifications at Manassas and those at Yorktown were the work of the slaves. "

Proof of an agenda can been seen in their work a recent issue of Civil War Times had a article but one of the pompous self acclaimed experts in which he was explain the action against the black soldiers was the Confederacy role in keeping slaves in line and purely a racial affair. But in the works of "No Quarter: The Battle of the Crater", 1864 by Richard Slotkin (did I mention PHD) he references the official records of both armies and the fact that when Union forces charged at the Crater they were shouting "Take no prisoners remember Fort Pillow", "No Quarter" has does the NPS records. That white Union troops killed as many black troops as the defenders, that while the union soldier felt their action cowardly and ungentlemanly (similar to a war crime) that it incensed the defenders watching their comrades being vaporized. Since the Union were killing their own soldiers racism surely played a role but much so was the retribution for the uncivilized act and the taunting of the troops. He also failed to mention that the Confederates incensed also shot white POW's. I guess a "ROUNDED" historian would be aware of all the facts and report same. So, anyway please allow me to add keep an open mind when reading blogs. My contention is what did it matter? While the cause is still argued what cannot be disputed are facts Article Thirteen, dated March 2, 1861 of the Thirty Sixth Congress, Sess. II, Res. 9, 11, 12, 13 stated "[NO.13] Joint Resolution to Amend the Constitution of the United States. Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following Article be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by three-fourths of said Legislatures, shall be valid, to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution, viz: No Amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, with-in any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State". Approved, March 2, 1861. Note: This was passed by 66% of the States still seated one month before the incidents of War in Charleston Harbor, South Carolina; so if the Southron States had returned to the Union they could have voted and slavery would have been ensured. They didn't so if Slavery was not the issue why was the War fought?

Official Records, Series 1, Volume 4, p.569 - Report of Colonel John W. Phelps, First Vermont Infantry: CAMP BUTLER, Newport News, Va., August 11, 1861 - "SIR: Scouts from this post represent the enemy as having retired. they came to New Market Bridge on Wednesday, and left the next day. They-the enemy-talked of having 9,000 men. They were recalled by dispatches from Richmond. They had twenty pieces of artillery, among which was the Richmond Howitzer Battery, manned by negroes. . . Their numbers are probably overrated; but with regard to their artillery, and its being manned in part by negroes, I think the report is probably correct. "

Official Records, Series 1, vol 35, Part 1 (Olustee), Page 442-443, S.C., FLA., AND ON THE GA. COAST. Chapter XLVII - Report of Bgen Asboth, USA: "...when I proceeded to Milton, Fla., a distance of 9 miles, and after rebuilding the destroyed bridge on the Arcadia Creek, I came upon the enemy, about 100 strong, and consisting of Captain Goldsby's (Alabama) cavalry company and a new militia infantry company, mounted...Having received early information of the arrival of two army steamers at Bayou Mulatte, the enemy had sent his stores on seven wagons in time toward Pollard, and seemed prepared and decided to accept a fight in the camp at the upper end of the town, but fled, upon our impetuous charge, in all directions. We pursued them closely for 7 miles, and captured 4 privates of Goldsby's company and 3 colored men, mounted and armed, with 7 horses and 5 mules with equipments, and 20 Austrian rifles."

Official Records, Series I, Vol. XVII, Chapter XXIX, Pg. 635-637 - December 28, 1863 - "...It had to be prosecuted under the fire of the enemy's sharpshooters, protected as well as the men might be by our skirmishers on the bank, who were ordered to keep up so vigorous a fire that the enemy should not dare to lift their heads above their rifle-pits; but the enemy, and especially their armed negroes, did dare to rise and fire, and did serious execution upon our men...The casualties in the brigade were 11 killed, 40 wounded, and 4 missing; aggregate, 55. - Very respectfully, your obedient servant, D. STUART, Brigadier-General, Commanding"

Official Records, Series I, Vol. III, Correspondence, etc., pg 767-768 - "CAMBRIDGE, September 4, 1863. His Excellency A. LINCOLN, President of the United States: "...excitement here growing out of the recruiting of colored troops, and as some of the recruiting officers are acting rather indiscreetly, I fear, by taking slaves in their recruits, and the slaves of loyal as well as disloyal persons...to enlist slaves as well as free people is creating a great deal of anxiety among the people...we ought to use the colored people, after the rebels commenced to use them against us".

Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805, Lt. Col. Parkhurst's Report (Ninth Michigan Infantry) on General Forrest's attack at Murfreesboro, Tenn, July 13,1862: "There were also quite a number of Negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."

May 10, 1862, Harper's Weekly "THE correspondent of the New York Herald, in one of its late numbers, reports that the rebels had a regiment of mounted negroes, armed with sabers, at Manassas, and that some five hundred Union prisoners taken at Bull Run were escorted to their filthy prison by a regiment of black men. There is little doubt also, that the fortifications at Manassas and those at Yorktown were the work of the slaves. "


Article Thirteen, dated March 2, 1861 of the Thirty Sixth Congress, Sess. II, Res. 9, 11, 12, 13 stated "[NO.13] Joint Resolution to Amend the Constitution of the United States. Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following Article be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by three-fourths of said Legislatures, shall be valid, to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution, viz: No Amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, with-in any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State". Approved, March 2, 1861. Note: This was passed by 66% of the States still seated one month before the incidents of War in Charleston Harbor, South Carolina; so if the Southron States had returned to the Union they could have voted and slavery would have been ensured. They didn't so if Slavery was not the issue why was the War fought?

National Archives, Record Group 109, M-251, file of A. I. Peeler, Company I, 5th Florida Infantry; M-275, Records of General and Staff Officers and Nonregimental Enlisted Men, file of Capt. C. L. Moore.
Charles Kelley Barrow, J. H. Segars, and R. B. Rosenberg, 'Forgotten Confederates: An Anthology About Black Southerners' Journal of Confederate History Series, vol. 14 (Atlanta: Southern Heritage Press, 1996), in the 'Hawkinsville Georgia Dispatch,' Feb. 5, 1885.
In September 1863, during the battle of Chickamauga, the 4th Tennessee Cavalry had a black servant named Daniel McLemore, servant to the Colonel of the regiment, organize a group of servants into a company of between 40-50 men. They were at first ordered to guard the horses of the soldiers, but sitting out of the fighting long enough, they asked a Captain Briggs if they could participate in the fighting.

Cpt Briggs recalled that "After trying to dissuade them from this, I gave in and led them up to the line of battle in which was just preparing to assualt Gen. Thomas's position. Thinking they would be of service in caring for the wounded, I held them close up the line, but when the advance was ordered the negro company became enthused as well as their masters, and filled a portion of the line of advance as well as any company of the regiment. While they had no guidon or muster roll, the burial after the battle of four of their number and the care of seven wounded at the hospital, told the tale of how well they fought."

-Cpt Briggs, 4th TN Cavalry
 
Southron_98 said:
Several persons who have argued against the black issues for more than several years have recently changed their minds in all likelihood you will probabaly see a court case which will resolve it once and for all. (That is a lie we all know whomever loses will continue arguing their side and claiming there was a conspericy, bribes something besides facts that caused them to lose their argument).

That's certainly a new angle. Makes me thinks someone doesn't understand how either the courts or historical research work.

Southron_98, do you mean a crminal or civil suit? What charges would be brought or who would have the basis to bring such a suit?
 
The yankee revisionist argue so venomously against black Confederates because they claim Southroners use the act of blacks fighting for the South to justify the reasons for the war; the only people who really claim that are the yankee revisionist. Lets talk facts for a minute if you have not served in combat you have no idea about the "fog of war", decisions and actions that if you lived to be 1000 you would never do again. I refused decorations on just that account it was not bravery but necessity.

Several persons who have argued against the black issues for more than several years have recently changed their minds in all likelihood you will probabaly see a court case which will resolve it once and for all. (That is a lie we all know whomever loses will continue arguing their side and claiming there was a conspericy, bribes something besides facts that caused them to lose their argument).

I don't know but a few individuals who claim there were black units, most agree until the end of the war there were no groups. However there are a growing number of documents describing blacks in a combat role.

My argument which I am going to try to prove this summer what kept 4000, 3000 slaves from fleeing, from attacking the troops?


Gary, Right?

I am not a slap you down kind of guy. I don't know as much history or attorney's tricks as many on this forum.
I have southern sympathies a little, but my family were slave state Unionists. I am generally pretty harmless. But I have 2 or 3 things I want to comment on before others do.

1. - The part of your post that I quoted is not clear to me and I don't understand very well what you are trying to say.
2. - People here, as far as I know, don't deny scattered units or squads or individual blacks fighting for the Confederates.
(I once made a guess at 1,500 - 2,500 black confederates)
3. - But you ARE GOING TO TAKE INCOMING FIRE about this issue and maybe even a slap down or a little dogpile!
4. - You SEEM extremely confident, almost brash. Does that come from a lot of study? Strong emotions on the subject?

Anyway, if you continue to post and gradually learn to enjoy it here....welcome aboard and keep your head down!
 
I do think you are posting to the wrong place. No one here, is denying that there were blacks, slave and free, who did service for the Confederate armies, sometimes bearing arms. The question is over their numbers, their motivations for doing so, their status as servants, laborers, or 'soldiers,' and how they could have come to be soldiers (assuming some did) when it was explicitly against Confederate law. You will find that most of the OR texts you have quoted have already been discussed here -- sometimes at length.

I'd suggest slowing down, taking the chip off your shoulder, and discussing your points one by one. You will find much less opposition if you don't come on like gangbusters making wild accusations and demanding complete and immediate agreement. If approached responsibly and respectfully, we are quite a friendly group here, even when we strongly disagree. But, continue like this, and you will be put down quite sharply. Less emotion would be highly beneficial.

A friendly welcome from "nasty ol' Massachusetts," by the way.

jno
 
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I've seen this rodeo before.
I do think you are posting to the wrong place. No one here, is denying that there were blacks, slave and free, who did service for the Confederate armies, sometimes bearing arms. The question is over their numbers, their motivations for doing so, their status as servants, laborers, or 'soldiers,' and how they could have come to be soldiers (assuming some did) when it was explicitly against Confederate law. You will find that most of the OR texts you have quoted have already been discussed here -- sometimes at length.

I'd suggest slowing down, taking the chip off your shoulder, and discussing your points one by one. You will find much less opposition if you don't come on like gangbusters making wild accusations and demanding complete and immediate agreement. If approached responsibly and respectfully, we are quite a friendly group here, even when we strongly disagree. But, continue like this, and you will be put down quite sharply. Less emotion would be highly beneficial.

A friendly welcome from "nasty ol' Massachusetts," by the way.

jno
That's certainly a new angle. Makes me thinks someone doesn't understand how either the courts or historical research work.

Southron_98, do you mean a crminal or civil suit? What charges would be brought or who would have the basis to bring such a suit?

Idk where he went but everyone was very civil and slow to anger. Yay for us.:dance:
 
The yankee revisionist argue so venomously against black Confederates because they claim Southroners use the act of blacks fighting for the South to justify the reasons for the war; the only people who really claim that are the yankee revisionist. Lets talk facts for a minute if you have not served in combat you have no idea about the "fog of war", decisions and actions that if you lived to be 1000 you would never do again. I refused decorations on just that account it was not bravery but necessity.

Several persons who have argued against the black issues for more than several years have recently changed their minds in all likelihood you will probabaly see a court case which will resolve it once and for all. (That is a lie we all know whomever loses will continue arguing their side and claiming there was a conspericy, bribes something besides facts that caused them to lose their argument).

I don't know but a few individuals who claim there were black units, most agree until the end of the war there were no groups. However there are a growing number of documents describing blacks in a combat role.

My argument which I am going to try to prove this summer what kept 4000, 3000 slaves from fleeing, from attacking the troops?

Many revisionist are claiming the yanks made up these stories to justify the USCT. Really I just don't see the arguments in any papers, notes or a matter of facts anywhere. NOTE: One more thing many instances were made after the USCT was already in the field.

The Official Records constitute the most extensive collection of primary sources of the history of the war. They include selected first-hand accounts, orders, reports, maps, diagrams, and correspondence drawn from War and Navy Department records of both Confederate and Union governments. Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805, Lt. Col. Parkhurst's Report (Ninth Michigan Infantry) on General Forrest's attack at Murfreesboro, Tenn, July 13,1862: "There were also quite a number of Negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."


Official Records, Series 1, Volume 15, Part 1, Pages 137-138, report of the Union commander: "Pickets were thrown out that night, and Captain Hennessy, Company E, of the Ninth Connecticut, having been sent out with his company, captured a colored rebel scout, well mounted, who had been sent out to watch our movements."

Official Records, Series I, Vol. XLIX, Part n, pg. 253 - April 6, 1865 "The rebels [Forrest] are recruiting negro troops at Enterprise, Miss., and the negroes are all enrolled in the State." Official Records, Series I, Vol. XIV, pg. 24, second paragraph, Colonel B. C. Christ, 50th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, official report of May 30, 1862, Pocotaligo, SC., "It is also difficult to state the force of the enemy, but it could not have been less than from 600 to 800. There were six companies of mounted riflemen, besides infantry, among which were a considerable number of colored men."

Official Records, Vol. XIII, Chapter XXV, pg. 688 - "...We are not likely to use one negro where the rebels have used a thousand. When I left Arkansas they were still enrolling negroes to fortify the rebellion." - September, 1862

Official Records, Correspondence, Etc., Vol. II, pg. 218 - "...they [the Confederacy] have, by means of sweeping conscription, gathered in countless hordes, and threaten to overwhelm the armies of the Union, with blood and treason in their hearts. They flaunt the black flag of rebellion in the face of the Government, and threaten to butcher our brave and loyal armies with foreign bayonets. They arm negroes and merciless savages in their behalf." - July 11, 1862 - Rich D. Yates, Governor of Illinois

Official Records, Vol. XIX, Chapter XXXI, pg. 617 - Record of the Harper's Ferry Military Commission (U.S. Army) Question. "Do you know of any individual of the enemy having been killed or wounded during the siege of Harper's Ferry?" Answer. "I have strong reasons to believe that there was a negro killed, who had wounded 2 or 3 of my men. I know that an officer took deliberate aim at him, and he fell over. He was one of the skirmishers of the enemy [Confederate, ed.], and wounded 3 of my men. I know there must have been some of the enemy killed." Question. "How do you know the negro was killed?" Answer. "The officer saw him fall."

Official Records: Series 2, Vol. 6, Part 1 (Prisoners of War) p. 17-18 - "...before one single negro or mulatto was mustered into the U.S. service you had them organized in arms in Louisiana. You had Indians and half-breed negroes and Indians organized in arms under Albert Pike, in Arkansas. Subsequently negroes were captured on the battle-field at Antietam and delivered as prisoners of war at Aiken's Landing to the Confederate authorities, and receipted for and counted in exchange."

Official Records, Vol. XLI, Chapter LIII, pg. 670 - PATTERSON, [November] 24, 1864 - "Colonel MAUPIN: I have arrived with my squad on return. Captain McClanahan has gone on the upper road for Pilot Knob; will all arrive there to-morrow. No rebel force below. We have turned up eleven bushwhackers to dry and one rebel negro. No man hurt on our side. The men are generally well."


Official Records, Series 1, Volume 4, p.569 - Report of Colonel John W. Phelps, First Vermont Infantry: CAMP BUTLER, Newport News, Va., August 11, 1861 - "SIR: Scouts from this post represent the enemy as having retired. they came to New Market Bridge on Wednesday, and left the next day. They-the enemy-talked of having 9,000 men. They were recalled by dispatches from Richmond. They had twenty pieces of artillery, among which was the Richmond Howitzer Battery, manned by negroes. . . Their numbers are probably overrated; but with regard to their artillery, and its being manned in part by negroes, I think the report is probably correct. "

Official Records, Series 1, vol 35, Part 1 (Olustee), Page 442-443, S.C., FLA., AND ON THE GA. COAST. Chapter XLVII - Report of Bgen Asboth, USA: "...when I proceeded to Milton, Fla., a distance of 9 miles, and after rebuilding the destroyed bridge on the Arcadia Creek, I came upon the enemy, about 100 strong, and consisting of Captain Goldsby's (Alabama) cavalry company and a new militia infantry company, mounted...Having received early information of the arrival of two army steamers at Bayou Mulatte, the enemy had sent his stores on seven wagons in time toward Pollard, and seemed prepared and decided to accept a fight in the camp at the upper end of the town, but fled, upon our impetuous charge, in all directions. We pursued them closely for 7 miles, and captured 4 privates of Goldsby's company and 3 colored men, mounted and armed, with 7 horses and 5 mules with equipments, and 20 Austrian rifles."

Official Records, Series I, Vol. XVII, Chapter XXIX, Pg. 635-637 - December 28, 1863 - "...It had to be prosecuted under the fire of the enemy's sharpshooters, protected as well as the men might be by our skirmishers on the bank, who were ordered to keep up so vigorous a fire that the enemy should not dare to lift their heads above their rifle-pits; but the enemy, and especially their armed negroes, did dare to rise and fire, and did serious execution upon our men...The casualties in the brigade were 11 killed, 40 wounded, and 4 missing; aggregate, 55. - Very respectfully, your obedient servant, D. STUART, Brigadier-General, Commanding"

Official Records, Series I, Vol. III, Correspondence, etc., pg 767-768 - "CAMBRIDGE, September 4, 1863. His Excellency A. LINCOLN, President of the United States: "...excitement here growing out of the recruiting of colored troops, and as some of the recruiting officers are acting rather indiscreetly, I fear, by taking slaves in their recruits, and the slaves of loyal as well as disloyal persons...to enlist slaves as well as free people is creating a great deal of anxiety among the people...we ought to use the colored people, after the rebels commenced to use them against us".

Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805, Lt. Col. Parkhurst's Report (Ninth Michigan Infantry) on General Forrest's attack at Murfreesboro, Tenn, July 13,1862: "There were also quite a number of Negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."

May 10, 1862, Harper's Weekly "THE correspondent of the New York Herald, in one of its late numbers, reports that the rebels had a regiment of mounted negroes, armed with sabers, at Manassas, and that some five hundred Union prisoners taken at Bull Run were escorted to their filthy prison by a regiment of black men. There is little doubt also, that the fortifications at Manassas and those at Yorktown were the work of the slaves. "

Proof of an agenda can been seen in their work a recent issue of Civil War Times had a article but one of the pompous self acclaimed experts in which he was explain the action against the black soldiers was the Confederacy role in keeping slaves in line and purely a racial affair. But in the works of "No Quarter: The Battle of the Crater", 1864 by Richard Slotkin (did I mention PHD) he references the official records of both armies and the fact that when Union forces charged at the Crater they were shouting "Take no prisoners remember Fort Pillow", "No Quarter" has does the NPS records. That white Union troops killed as many black troops as the defenders, that while the union soldier felt their action cowardly and ungentlemanly (similar to a war crime) that it incensed the defenders watching their comrades being vaporized. Since the Union were killing their own soldiers racism surely played a role but much so was the retribution for the uncivilized act and the taunting of the troops. He also failed to mention that the Confederates incensed also shot white POW's. I guess a "ROUNDED" historian would be aware of all the facts and report same. So, anyway please allow me to add keep an open mind when reading blogs. My contention is what did it matter? While the cause is still argued what cannot be disputed are facts Article Thirteen, dated March 2, 1861 of the Thirty Sixth Congress, Sess. II, Res. 9, 11, 12, 13 stated "[NO.13] Joint Resolution to Amend the Constitution of the United States. Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following Article be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by three-fourths of said Legislatures, shall be valid, to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution, viz: No Amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, with-in any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State". Approved, March 2, 1861. Note: This was passed by 66% of the States still seated one month before the incidents of War in Charleston Harbor, South Carolina; so if the Southron States had returned to the Union they could have voted and slavery would have been ensured. They didn't so if Slavery was not the issue why was the War fought?

Official Records, Series 1, Volume 4, p.569 - Report of Colonel John W. Phelps, First Vermont Infantry: CAMP BUTLER, Newport News, Va., August 11, 1861 - "SIR: Scouts from this post represent the enemy as having retired. they came to New Market Bridge on Wednesday, and left the next day. They-the enemy-talked of having 9,000 men. They were recalled by dispatches from Richmond. They had twenty pieces of artillery, among which was the Richmond Howitzer Battery, manned by negroes. . . Their numbers are probably overrated; but with regard to their artillery, and its being manned in part by negroes, I think the report is probably correct. "

Official Records, Series 1, vol 35, Part 1 (Olustee), Page 442-443, S.C., FLA., AND ON THE GA. COAST. Chapter XLVII - Report of Bgen Asboth, USA: "...when I proceeded to Milton, Fla., a distance of 9 miles, and after rebuilding the destroyed bridge on the Arcadia Creek, I came upon the enemy, about 100 strong, and consisting of Captain Goldsby's (Alabama) cavalry company and a new militia infantry company, mounted...Having received early information of the arrival of two army steamers at Bayou Mulatte, the enemy had sent his stores on seven wagons in time toward Pollard, and seemed prepared and decided to accept a fight in the camp at the upper end of the town, but fled, upon our impetuous charge, in all directions. We pursued them closely for 7 miles, and captured 4 privates of Goldsby's company and 3 colored men, mounted and armed, with 7 horses and 5 mules with equipments, and 20 Austrian rifles."

Official Records, Series I, Vol. XVII, Chapter XXIX, Pg. 635-637 - December 28, 1863 - "...It had to be prosecuted under the fire of the enemy's sharpshooters, protected as well as the men might be by our skirmishers on the bank, who were ordered to keep up so vigorous a fire that the enemy should not dare to lift their heads above their rifle-pits; but the enemy, and especially their armed negroes, did dare to rise and fire, and did serious execution upon our men...The casualties in the brigade were 11 killed, 40 wounded, and 4 missing; aggregate, 55. - Very respectfully, your obedient servant, D. STUART, Brigadier-General, Commanding"

Official Records, Series I, Vol. III, Correspondence, etc., pg 767-768 - "CAMBRIDGE, September 4, 1863. His Excellency A. LINCOLN, President of the United States: "...excitement here growing out of the recruiting of colored troops, and as some of the recruiting officers are acting rather indiscreetly, I fear, by taking slaves in their recruits, and the slaves of loyal as well as disloyal persons...to enlist slaves as well as free people is creating a great deal of anxiety among the people...we ought to use the colored people, after the rebels commenced to use them against us".

Official Records, Series I, Vol XVI Part I, pg. 805, Lt. Col. Parkhurst's Report (Ninth Michigan Infantry) on General Forrest's attack at Murfreesboro, Tenn, July 13,1862: "There were also quite a number of Negroes attached to the Texas and Georgia troops, who were armed and equipped, and took part in the several engagements with my forces during the day."

May 10, 1862, Harper's Weekly "THE correspondent of the New York Herald, in one of its late numbers, reports that the rebels had a regiment of mounted negroes, armed with sabers, at Manassas, and that some five hundred Union prisoners taken at Bull Run were escorted to their filthy prison by a regiment of black men. There is little doubt also, that the fortifications at Manassas and those at Yorktown were the work of the slaves. "


Article Thirteen, dated March 2, 1861 of the Thirty Sixth Congress, Sess. II, Res. 9, 11, 12, 13 stated "[NO.13] Joint Resolution to Amend the Constitution of the United States. Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the following Article be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which, when ratified by three-fourths of said Legislatures, shall be valid, to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution, viz: No Amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, with-in any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State". Approved, March 2, 1861. Note: This was passed by 66% of the States still seated one month before the incidents of War in Charleston Harbor, South Carolina; so if the Southron States had returned to the Union they could have voted and slavery would have been ensured. They didn't so if Slavery was not the issue why was the War fought?

National Archives, Record Group 109, M-251, file of A. I. Peeler, Company I, 5th Florida Infantry; M-275, Records of General and Staff Officers and Nonregimental Enlisted Men, file of Capt. C. L. Moore.
Charles Kelley Barrow, J. H. Segars, and R. B. Rosenberg, 'Forgotten Confederates: An Anthology About Black Southerners' Journal of Confederate History Series, vol. 14 (Atlanta: Southern Heritage Press, 1996), in the 'Hawkinsville Georgia Dispatch,' Feb. 5, 1885.
In September 1863, during the battle of Chickamauga, the 4th Tennessee Cavalry had a black servant named Daniel McLemore, servant to the Colonel of the regiment, organize a group of servants into a company of between 40-50 men. They were at first ordered to guard the horses of the soldiers, but sitting out of the fighting long enough, they asked a Captain Briggs if they could participate in the fighting.

Cpt Briggs recalled that "After trying to dissuade them from this, I gave in and led them up to the line of battle in which was just preparing to assualt Gen. Thomas's position. Thinking they would be of service in caring for the wounded, I held them close up the line, but when the advance was ordered the negro company became enthused as well as their masters, and filled a portion of the line of advance as well as any company of the regiment. While they had no guidon or muster roll, the burial after the battle of four of their number and the care of seven wounded at the hospital, told the tale of how well they fought."

-Cpt Briggs, 4th TN Cavalry

Southron_98,

None of your above post matters.

No matter how many blacks, slaves or freedmen, supposedly fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War, the supposed numbers or their reason for doing such DOES NOT MATTER.

Whether it was only a handful or a few thousand here and there, it does not change the reasons the slaveholding states seceded from the Union.

And that reason, with a 150-year paper trail left by those who led the rebellion themselves, states, over and over again, was over the issue of slavery.

As damYankee stated above, "I've seen this rodeo before," and it changes nothing of what I know of historical fact.

Until our next post,
Unionblue
 
I do think you are posting to the wrong place. No one here, is denying that there were blacks, slave and free, who did service for the Confederate armies, sometimes bearing arms. The question is over their numbers, their motivations for doing so, their status as servants, laborers, or 'soldiers,' and how they could have come to be soldiers (assuming some did) when it was explicitly against Confederate law. You will find that most of the OR texts you have quoted have already been discussed here -- sometimes at length.

I'd suggest slowing down, taking the chip off your shoulder, and discussing your points one by one. You will find much less opposition if you don't come on like gangbusters making wild accusations and demanding complete and immediate agreement. If approached responsibly and respectfully, we are quite a friendly group here, even when we strongly disagree. But, continue like this, and you will be put down quite sharply. Less emotion would be highly beneficial.

A friendly welcome from "nasty ol' Massachusetts," by the way.

jno
I learned THAT lesson the hard way, during the first week...
 
Southron_98,

None of your above post matters.

No matter how many blacks, slaves or freedmen, supposedly fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War, the supposed numbers or their reason for doing such DOES NOT MATTER.

Whether it was only a handful or a few thousand here and there, it does not change the reasons the slaveholding states seceded from the Union.

And that reason, with a 150-year paper trail left by those who led the rebellion themselves, states, over and over again, was over the issue of slavery.

As damYankee stated above, "I've seen this rodeo before," and it changes nothing of what I know of historical fact.

Until our next post,
Unionblue
Hang in there, Southron! I survived a hail of bullets my first week, and was encouraged to stay! You'll learn a lot from these people-they know their stuff!
 
One thing about the OP references that strikes me is why are they all from the Union side? Were CSA references not included by some choice, or did you just not find any?

No desire to join the discussion, been there done that. Just adding content to the thread for it's benefit.

War of the Rebellion: Serial 016 Page 0749 Chapter XXIV. CAMPAIGN IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA.

On the 31st the brigade accompanied General Stuart on a scout to Chantilly, picking up 200 or 300 prisoners. A portion of the Twelfth, under Lieutenant-Colonel [R. H.] Burks, captured one company of the Tenth New York Cavalry without firing a gun.
On the evening of September 1, while our troops were engaged on the Ox road, near Germantown, my regiment was ordered to Leesburg to capture Means and his party.
About 11 a. m. the next day I arrived at Leesburg. Learning that Means was in the town, I cut across from the Dranesville pike and entered the town by the Edwards Ferry road. I succeeded in surprising Means' party, Means himself escaping. He was supported by Major Cole, of Maryland, with about 200 men, on the Point of Rocks road. Without halting in the town I pressed heavily upon him, and soon succeeded in routing his command after a heavy skirmish, and pursued them as far as Waterford, 7 miles. My command amounted to 163 men, about 40 of which number, including Captain Dickinson and Lieutenants [W. R.] Beale and [A. D.] Warwick, did not join in the charge from some cause not yet explained. Had they followed their comrades in this bold charge I do not think a dozen of the whole Yankee command would have escaped being either killed or captured. As it was, we killed 11, wounded 9 too badly to be sent away, besides some 10 or 11 who escaped badly wounded, and sent off 47 prisoners, including 2 captains and 3 lieutenants.
In this charge Lieutenant J. O. Davis, of Company E, was killed while gallantly leading the advance of his company. Lieutenant John O. Lasley, of Company K, had his arm fractured by a rifle-ball, Sergt. Charles Spears, Company C, was killed. Private N. McGhee, Captain Dearing, of Company F, and John Merryman, of Company I, were badly wounded. It is proper to report that Edward, a servant of Private English, Company K, went into the charge, following his master, gun in hand, and shot the notorious Everhart, who was left in Leesburg, badly wounded.
* * * * * * *
I am, Major, very respectfully, your most obedient servant,
THOMAS T. MUNFORD,
Colonel Second Virginia Cavalry.

Here's Private English, Company K,
William O. English

Residence Albemarle County VA; a 28 year-old Farmer.

Enlisted on 5/11/1861 at Charlottesville, VA as a Private.

On 5/11/1861 he mustered into "K" Co. VA 2nd Cavalry
He was discharged for promotion on 2/27/1863

On 2/27/1863 he was commissioned into VA Andrews Bn Light Artillery
(date and method of discharge not given)


He was listed as:
* On rolls 12/31/1861 (place not stated) (Present)
* Was paid 11/10/1862 (place not stated)
* On rolls 4/3/1863 (place not stated) (Present)
* Detached 12/31/1863 (place not stated) (On duty with Braxton's Battalion)
* On rolls 1/28/1864 Fredericks Hall, VA (Present)
* On rolls 4/14/1864 Fredericks Hall, VA (Present)
* Detailed 2/3/1865 Staunton, VA
* Ordered 3/15/1865 Drewry's Bluff, VA (To rejoin Braxton's Battn, NFR)


Promotions:
* Sergt 11/15/1861 (Estimated day)
* 1st Lieut 2/27/1863 (In Ordnance Department,)


Other Information:
born in 1833 in Westmoreland County, VA
died 3/2/1896 in Richmond, VA
- The Virginia Regimental Histories Series
...................................................................................

Here's the notorious Everhart,

Armistead Everhart

Residence was not listed;
Enlisted on 6/20/1862 at Lovettsville, VA as a Private.

On 6/20/1862 he mustered into "A" Co. VA Loudoun Rangers
He was discharged for wounds (date not stated)


He was listed as:
* POW 9/2/1862 Leesburg, VA
* Wounded 9/2/1862 Leesburg, VA (Shot through right knee)
* Confined 9/10/1862 Winchester, VA (Estimated day)
* Paroled 9/15/1862 Winchester, VA (Estimated day)
- History of the Loudoun Virginia Rangers 1862-65
 
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