Odd Michigan belt buckle?

major bill

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
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Aug 25, 2012
This is a well known photo showing the band of the 4th Michigan Infantry, from the Brady collection, National Archives. Note the odd belt buckles.
belt.jpg


It appears they have adopted the round shoulder belt plate with the eagle design.
 
I should look for better on line copies of this photo, the copies in books are not clear enough to be certain. But ithey do look like eagle shoulder belt plates.


That exact same picture is in "American Military Belt Plates" O'Donnell & Campbell page 291, caption reads:
"Three Union musicians pose with their instruments in a field camp. Note the round 1826 pattern eagle plates worn on their waist belts. These were likely acquired through a state contract."
 
You have an interesting webpage. I do have a question. I took this photo at the museum in Ypsilanti of an image in a glass case.
1609815883030.png


It is said to be Charles M. Skinner, from Sturgis, a soldier in the 4th Michigan Infantry. I can not find a soldier by that name in the 4th Michigan Infantry. He appears to wear an odd 8 button jacket with unusual trim. Any thoughts on this photograph? There is a Benjamin Skinner in the 4th Michigan Infantry, but the signage clearly says Charles M. Skinner. There are a couple of Charles Skinners in other Michigan regiments, but none with a "M" middle name.
 
You have an interesting webpage. I do have a question. I took this photo at the museum in Ypsilanti of an image in a glass case.
View attachment 386821

It is said to be Charles M. Skinner, from Sturgis, a soldier in the 4th Michigan Infantry. I can not find a soldier by that name in the 4th Michigan Infantry. He appears to wear an odd 8 button jacket with unusual trim. Any thoughts on this photograph? There is a Benjamin Skinner in the 4th Michigan Infantry, but the signage clearly says Charles M. Skinner. There are a couple of Charles Skinners in other Michigan regiments, but none with a "M" middle name.
I have not found a soldier by that name in the regiment in my master list. I have not found a Benjamin Skinner in the regiment either. I do have an Amos Skinner who served in the Re-organized 4th however. I've been to the National Archives a few times, for several days at a time, in an attempt at establishing a more accurate list of the men who served in the regiment. And yet, I still come across men every once in a while, who are not on my list.
If you'll go to this page on my site you'll find a letter written by Eli Starr, who would later become a Sergeant in Company C of the Fourth Michigan Infantry. In his letter dated May 16, 1861, Eli writes of traveling to Sturgis (from Centerville) with his uniform that he had with him before joining the Fourth. I point that out in consideration of the possibility, that if this Charles M. Skinner was in the Fourth Michigan Infantry, and from Sturgis, maybe he was in a similar situation as Eli. I'll let you read the letter to see what your thoughts are. But at this time, I have no evidence that this Charles M. Skinner was in the regiment. I do know one thing, and that is that I don't know everything.....just ask my wife.
 
I do find a Benjamin H. Skinner who served with the 20th Michigan Infantry in 1862, and then in the VRC.
Perhaps I misread the Michigan Brown book and I read the wrong line and should have read Amos.

Sturgis had a pre Civil War militia company and I thought the photo at the Ypsilanti museum might show the uniform of this militia company. However, I have seen two descriptions of their uniforms and I read it not as a jacket, but a blue frock coat with red trim. I could be mistaken about them wearing frock coats.
 
I'm glad to help, just as you've helped me in the past. Give some thought to doing a guest blog on my site with regard to the uniforms of the Fourth Michigan Infantry.

Some of the Militia companies that joined the 4th Michigan Infantry Regiment wore uniform prior to the War. For Example:

The Tecumseh Volunteers a.k.a. Tecumseh Light Infantry later know as Tecumseh Union Cadets (Tecumseh, Lenawee County) were formed under Captain David D. Marshal at the start of the war. For a short time in 1861 they wore uniforms provided by the citizens of Tecumseh. The uniforms were blue jackets, red pants and red caps.i This was a Zouave type uniform.ii "While here the citizens took good care of us and furnished us a very neat uniform which consisted of a red cap, blue jacket, and red pants, so that with clean faces and blacken shoes we made a very good appearance."iii The Old 4th Michigan Infantry web site says wore dark-blue coats with red hats and red pants but they were spared the baggy pants worn by Zouaves. Besides uniforms the city also provided each man with a pistol. The Adrian Daily Expounder tells us they wore blue and scarlet uniforms.iv

The men probably wore these uniforms to Fort Wayne when they joined the 4th​ Michigan as Company G. They would have soon received state issued gray uniforms.

i Harrison Daniels Diary, reprinted on the 4th​ Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment web site.
ii "The War Feeling', Adrian Daily Expositor, May 4 1861, p.1, col.1.
iii Harrison Daniels Diary, reprinted on the 4th​ Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment web site.
iv "The War Feeling", Adrian Daily Expounder, May 28 1861, p.1, col.2-3.

The Hudson Zouave Cadets a. k. a. The Hudson Cadets (Hudson, Lenawee County) were formed in May 1861. This company consisted of boys twelve to sixteen years old.i Captain James Beach was said to be the company commander. Other reports give Stephen Johnson as the captain. It is possible that Captain Beach was the adult in charge and Johnson the juvenile Company Commander. The short-lived Hudson Zouave Cadets functioned as a type of home guard company. The Hudson Zouave Cadets drilled regular and became quite proficient at Ellsworth's Zouave's drill.

For uniforms they wore red pants and blue shirts with red Zouave caps. They ordered caps from J. & A. Herzog, 152 Lake, Chicago Illinois and these arrived in April of 1861.ii Some newspaper reports tell use they had full uniforms and made a 'handsome' appearance, but the exact nature of the uniforms worn in this parade is not recorded and it is unclear if they ever obtained jackets. The local ladies presented them with their own flag. They were never able to obtain muskets and drilled with sticks. They intended to defend the peninsula state with shotguns, pistols, hunting knives and hatchets.iii

The Hudson Zouave Cadets had a small four-piece band who could play but one song. A photograph of 16 year-old Albert H. Boies, who played the fife in this band, shows him in uniform, but it is unclear if he was wearing his Zouave Cadet uniform or a later uniform.iv Boies soon joined the 4th​ Regiment and this photograph may show a musician uniform he wore with that regiment. This photograph shows Boies from the chest up. This Boies photograph could be from his service as a musician in the 4th​ Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment. This Boies photograph could be from his service as a musician in the 4th​ Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment. He wears a light gray? jacket with 3 rows of dark buttons the total number of button cannot be determined in the photograph. The jacket has thin vertical dark braid that ends in trefoils. The jacket collar is dark with a gilt button set well back. The collar has a light stripe at the base. The chasseur style kepi is dark with a light welt. It is possible that the kepi has braid on the front and sides. v Interest soon faded and the Cadets disbanded. Many of the older boys found regiments they could join. The 11th​ Michigan Volunteer Infantry Regiment and the Chicago Zouaves (probably the Douglas Brigade) were units that received some former Hudson Zouave Cadets.



i Hudson Zouave Cadets, Hudson Gazette, May 18 1861, p. 3, col.1.
ii "New Caps", Hudson Gazette, August 10 1861, p. 3, col. 1.
iiiBoise Albert H., "War Memories", Adrian Daily Times and Expositor, March 20 1886, p.4, col. 3.
iv The band apparently had but four members and the band was probably part of the "cadets" and not a
separate entity. The 'cadet' musicians may have worn a distinctive uniform.
v Albert H. Boies age is not given in the records but he could not have joined the 4th​ Regiment at age 16,
the Zouave Cadets allowed 16 year-olds to join. He had an interesting service record. He was left for dead at the Battle of Marvin Hill, shot and captured at Gettysburg only to escape, and then serving in the Spanish American War and World War One as a recruiting officer.

There is information about the uniforms worn by other militia companies which help form the 4th Michigan Infantry.
 
Perhaps I misread the Michigan Brown book and I read the wrong line and should have read Amos.

Sturgis had a pre Civil War militia company and I thought the photo at the Ypsilanti museum might show the uniform of this militia company. However, I have seen two descriptions of their uniforms and I read it not as a jacket, but a blue frock coat with red trim. I could be mistaken about them wearing frock coats.
I finally found the time to visit the Ypsilanti Historical Museum and took a look at that image. The soldier in question is actually Charles M. Skirvin of Company C, Fourth Michigan Infantry. He enlisted as a Private on Jan. 12, 1863, and eventually served as a hospital steward as of Jan. 6, 1865. I am not familiar with the end of the sleeves and the cuffs on his jacket that he is seen wearing in the image. But I do suspect that it may have had something to do with the time of his service in the hospital. The cdv has a "L. N. Hutchinson Artist Sturgis, Michigan" backmark and Charles signed it as a member of the "4th Mich. Infantry".
 
Mabey? Possibly a one off design just for the band? or for the whole regiment?
Not for the whole regiment. I dug the 1862-63 camp of the 4th Michigan at Stoneman's Switch Va some years ago and out of the fifty or so plates we recovered, they were all standard US belt plates, US Cartridge Box plates, Eagle cartridge box strap plates or Officer's belt plates.
 

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