NF New "Roots" Miniseries Debuts May 30.

[John Hartwell]

I'm looking forward to the new Miniseries based on Alex Haley's Roots. The eight hour production, debuts Memorial Day (May 30) on History channel, and will be shown over four consecutive nights. Comparison is inevitable with the original, 1977 miniseries, a ground-breaking, hugely influential production of historic proportions in and of itself. What this one will be is yet to be seen.

The trailers do look promising: http://roots.history.com/

 

[MattL]

The first episode just finished. Have to say I was impressed.

Additionally this has extra meaning to my. Despite being white I have a very small amount of SSA (Sub-Saharan African) DNA. By DNA testing parents and a single grandparent I have determined I have at least two sources of African slave ancestry. I've found male descendant cousins of one line that have been Y DNA tested and they came up the largest SSA and African American haplogroup, confirming a male ancestor up that line was exported a slave out of the African coast. Further they have had a comprehensive DNA test (a Big Y) which narrows down the haplogroups and helps find new branches... the closest match in Africa happens to be The Gambia. It's not certain that my ancestor was an African man from The Gambia but it's the best guess per data now. I really enjoyed their focus on the culture in the first episode and illustrated the complex tribal warring between the African tribes themselves.

 

[Bryan_C]

The first episode just finished. Have to say I was impressed.

Additionally this has extra meaning to my. Despite being white I have a very small amount of SSA (Sub-Saharan African) DNA. By DNA testing parents and a single grandparent I have determined I have at least two sources of African slave ancestry. I've found male descendant cousins of one line that have been Y DNA tested and they came up the largest SSA and African American haplogroup, confirming a male ancestor up that line was exported a slave out of the African coast. Further they have had a comprehensive DNA test (a Big Y) which narrows down the haplogroups and helps find new branches... the closest match in Africa happens to be The Gambia. It's not certain that my ancestor was an African man from The Gambia but it's the best guess per data now. I really enjoyed their focus on the culture in the first episode and illustrated the complex tribal warring between the African tribes themselves.

Your story is interesting because I know of a couple of other White men with a very small amount (1% if I recall correctly) Sub-Saharan African ancestry. One of them is a friend of mine who tested through 23 and Me.

 

[John Hartwell]

I, too, was reasonably impressed with the series' harrowing debut episode.

The New York Times had an interesting preview of the entire production, as well as a comparison with the hugely influential original Roots (1977). The article also links to other interesting pieces, including a worthwhile editorial piece by Matthew R. Delmont "Why America forgot about Roots."

Last week, the Times also had a surprising account of a recent study of African-American DNA, "Tales of African-American History Found in DNA. Another noteworthy article from Dec. 2014,"White? Black? A Murky Distinction Grows Still Murkier," talks about the percentages of European Americans with at least 1% African DNA (over 12% of whites in Louisiana and South Carolina).

 

[MattL]

Your story is interesting because I know of a couple of other White men with a very small amount (1% if I recall correctly) Sub-Saharan African ancestry. One of them is a friend of mine who tested through 23 and Me.

I, too, was reasonably impressed with the series' harrowing debut episode.

The New York Times had an interesting preview of the entire production, as well as a comparison with the hugely influential original Roots (1977). The article also links to other interesting pieces, including a worthwhile editorial piece by Matthew R. Delmont "Why America forgot about Roots."

Last week, the Times also had a surprising account of a recent study of African-American DNA, "Tales of African-American History Found in DNA. Another noteworthy article from Dec. 2014,"White? Black? A Murky Distinction Grows Still Murkier," talks about the percentages of European Americans with at least 1% African DNA (over 12% of whites in Louisiana and South Carolina).

Yeah, it's definitely quite interesting. Unsurprisingly in the South you see significant influences. As Henry Louis Gates Jr. puts it, there was a lot of "sneakin and creepin" going on. It's not surprising those same secrets are hidden in my DNA since nearly all my ancestry came from the South (despite being born in the West myself).

It's an interesting concept since it reflects those mixed race people that eventually passed so effectively that descendants either never knew or chose not to pass it down.

My ancestor who links me to the West African slave, possibly Gambian, fought in the Civil War far the Confederates. In fact he was one of the two longest serving ancestors I have. He served from May 1862 all the way until May of 1865, about a month after the surrender of Appomattox. His cavalry unit pursued Sherman's march to the sea attempting to stop them and skirmishing.

I've wondered if he knew he had an African slave ancestor himself, if by then it was completely hidden or if it was still being hidden.

The whole sexual violation aspect of slavery is something we should never forget, it's present in those hidden amounts of African DNA amongst certain white people and highly present amongst the average 25% European African Americans are. Though it's sad to observe I'm glad there are shows like Roots that remind us of what happened not so long ago. If you aren't African American and raised with that ingrained with part of your culture it's easy to forget what happened then and the injustices that never fully stopped. It's easy to forget or be unaware of the massive handicap an entire sub-culture of people in the US have and in many areas never recovered from (or weren't fully allowed to) due to an event that happened not so long ago.

I have to selfishly admit that my views on such things have changed after learning of my own African ancestry. My tune has changed drastically from the one I was raised around.

 

[48th Miss.]

I remember the first mini series. It was a great production we must also remember that a lot of controversy arose after about the validty of parts of the book. Unfortunately i do not as yet recall them but i am sure they are searchable. I certainly do not mean to suggest that the over all story is false or that slavery was not immoral. It is though just a show. Just like Charlton Heston in the 10 Commandments epic, lots of errors but the outline was true. Bare in mind that slavery has always existed and does today with little news made of it in the Sudan and with Boco Haram and others. Some talk but no world action and not all whites being the perpetrators. As was the case then one group sold another. We just provided the shipping and the markets. Huge stain on mankind in general. I doubt i will watch it since the orginal is ingrained in my mind. Just like i did not watch the. New True Grit.

Anybody remember the movie The life and times of Miss Jane Pitman from the 70s i think

 

[Bruce Vail]

I saw a few minutes of it last night.

The whipping seen was very graphic....

 

[John Hartwell]

It's an interesting concept since it reflects those mixed race people that eventually passed so effectively that descendants either never knew or chose not to pass it down.

I've wondered if he knew he had an African slave ancestor himself, if by then it was completely hidden or if it was still being hidden.

While the "single drop" idea might have served as a simple 'legal' definition of "colored," it is encouraging to see that in some cases where it was not obvious, more human "family feelings" could allow it to be at first ignored, then covered up, and eventually forgotten. At some point family members who knew there was a slave mother involved, had to have decided not to hold it against her light skinned descendants. I expect that often meant that mother and child were separated, and she sent away so as to avoid scandal among those who were not in the know, or who might be unsympthetic. Tragedy for the mother, but a new life for the child. It's altogether possible in such a case, that the child himself would be unaware.

The above is just speculation, of course, but I think not improbable.

 

[John Hartwell]

I remember the first mini series. It was a great production we must also remember that a lot of controversy arose after about the validity of parts of the book. Unfortunately i do not as yet recall them but i am sure they are searchable.

The problem with the book was that it was so widely touted by book and television publicists (and, we all know how reliable they are) as "accurate history," the direct result of Haley's genealogical and historical researches. But it was, and remains a novel. He incorporated the really very sketchy story his genealogy revealed, with a great deal of interpretation (sometimes misinterpretation) and speculation to flesh out the whole scenario.

It can be taken as accurate in its general outlines, if not in its specific details. Not unlike many historical novels, a good story, but don't quote it as a hstorical source.

 

[nc native]

I watched most of the first episode and it was very intense and seemed to be historically accurate
on the whole. I did have problems with hanging moss and green leaves on hardwood trees in
what was supposed to be Virginia in October and November and the excessive for the time
period facial hair on the actors but all in all I was impressed by the realism that gave the viewer a
good glimpse of how terrible conditions were for those enslaved, especially during the passage to
the colonies. The acting was good and the story line is paced well. I will be tuning in again tonight.

 

[nitrofd]

Don't get too upset,the Virginia scenes were filmed in New Orleans only because the location looked good.I look outside my house and all I see is Spanish moss hanging from all the live oak trees.

 

[thomas aagaard]

Its on HBO Nordic so looking forward to seeing it... will properley wait a few days and watch all episodes in one go.

 

[Anna Elizabeth Henry]

The first episode was very well done. I never gave much thought to what a slave's life was like before his or her capture and enjoyed the glimpse into their world before slavery robbed them from their families. The parts during the sea voyage were quite eye-opening. I had read about it, but seeing it on screen brings it to life even more. The slave market too was heartbreaking to watch, seeing all those people poked and prodded and examined like a horse Again I had read about it in books, but the visuals add a whole new dimension to slavery for me.

I never saw the original miniseries or read the book, so this story is completely new to me other than what my parents told me about it when they read/saw the original book/show back in the 1970's.

I did have problems with hanging moss and green leaves on hardwood trees in what was supposed to be Virginia in October and November

I thought my boyfriend was going to have a stroke when he saw the Spanish moss hanging off trees in what was supposed to be Virginia. He's from the South originally, so he noticed it immediately. I told him they probably were looking for a period plantation so they didn't have a lot of choices that would work.

 

[MattL]

While the "single drop" idea might have served as a simple 'legal' definition of "colored," it is encouraging to see that in some cases where it was not obvious, more human "family feelings" could allow it to be at first ignored, then covered up, and eventually forgotten. At some point family members who knew there was a slave mother involved, had to have decided not to hold it against her light skinned descendants. I expect that often meant that mother and child were separated, and she sent away so as to avoid scandal among those who were not in the know, or who might be unsympthetic. Tragedy for the mother, but a new life for the child. It's altogether possible in such a case, that the child himself would be unaware.

The above is just speculation, of course, but I think not improbable.

Very true. I think that's an excellent perspective. My line leading up to the potentially Gambian ancestor leads through South Carolina in the mid 1700s, into regions of likely bi-racial and tri-racial people in the back country. It seems these people who were of mixed race, who probably had some understanding of their roots relocated to some back country regions alongside others who either were also mixed or simply didn't care. The back country cultures of many of these colonies and states were far more diverse and accepting than I had known. In those regions people went from "mulatto" or "colored" to "portugee" or "indian" and then to "white". They intermixed with whiter people than they were and their children passed.

This study

found:

Most individuals who have less than 28% African ancestry identify as European American, rather than as African American

Which means that if someone had children with 100% European people it would only take two generations to pass on average.

The problem with the book was that it was so widely touted by book and television publicists (and, we all know how reliable they are) as "accurate history," the direct result of Haley's genealogical and historical researches. But it was, and remains a novel. He incorporated the really very sketchy story his genealogy revealed, with a great deal of interpretation (sometimes misinterpretation) and speculation to flesh out the whole scenario.

It can be taken as accurate in its general outlines, if not in its specific details. Not unlike many historical novels, a good story, but don't quote it as a hstorical source.

Yeah, well summarized.

His genealogy both leading to the specific details of Kunta Kinte and Kunta Kinte in Africa have pretty much been proven false. Haley himself called his book "faction" fiction + fact. Henry Louis Gates Jr who is a leading (if not the leading) African American History expert and a friend of Haley the author said:

it's highly unlikely that Alex actually found the village from whence his ancestors sprang

He still praised it for being a novel that had some good and accurate historical elements.

I will say that some of the biggest critiques of the original Roots has been addressed. Specifically in this first episode in fact, rather than white people capturing the African slaves it's a rival tribe and they spend quite a bit of time setting the stage for the tribal conflict that indeed was going on. Also this new version more accurately portrays Juffure, which was very close to a major slave trading post, which also was a significant critique of the original.

I have to say that though there are certainly things that can be found, so far (based on my hobbyist understanding of the history) it might be one of the more accurate representations. The fact it covers a Gambian tribal culture, the African tribal conflict, the passage, slavery in the colonial period etc it may be the most accurate representation overall of something of this scope.

 

[MattL]

I thought my boyfriend was going to have a stroke when he saw the Spanish moss hanging off trees in what was supposed to be Virginia. He's from the South originally, so he noticed it immediately. I told him they probably were looking for a period plantation so they didn't have a lot of choices that would work.

Yeah, I also read that the African parts were filmed in South Africa nowhere near The Gambia. Fortunately most US viewers won't know what to look for as differences there.

 

[John Hartwell]

Yeah, I also read that the African parts were filmed in South Africa nowhere near The Gambia. Fortunately most US viewers won't know what to look for as differences there.

Well, you know, it's tv: Africa's Africa. All southern accents are the same. All southern trees are moss-festooned.

There are certain things we just have to ignore, or not watch at all... They won't go away.

 

[MattL]

Well, you know, it's tv: Africa's Africa. All southern accents are the same. All southern trees are moss-festooned. View attachment 101490
There are certain things we just have to ignore, or not watch at all... They won't go away.

Haha, very true. To be fair I completely sympathize with tv shows. Would I rather them spend money on all the locations being accurate or getting better actors, or costumes, etc... I think they make the same decisions I would in their shoes.

 

[Nathanb1]

It was good, and by the end, I was hooked. Honestly, the scenes inside the slave ship weren't as harrowing as the original...but the rest was better, I think.

Most important, I would watch Forest Whitaker read the phone book....I like to see Texans make good, and he's one of the best.

 

[DR_Hanna]

Snoop Dogg had interesting things to say about this movie. None postable here. I won't even link to them. But it is a different perspective to say the least.

 

[John Hartwell]

Mr. Dogg's historical persepective doesn't seem to reach back to the 20th century ... let alone the 18th.