Needing advices for creating boardgame

[Pat Answer]

I might adjust a few tactical bonuses with the rest remaining where you set them:
A Johnston 1/2
R E Lee 2/2 in 1861, 2/3 in 1862, 3/3 in 1863
J Johnston 2/3
Beauregard 1/2, 1/3 in 1863
Bragg 2/1 (he was capable of hitting pretty hard)
Ewell 2/2
D H Hill 2/2
A P Hill 1/2 (or some way to simulate 'attacks lack recon')
Stuart 3/2 with cavalry, 2/2 in emergency corps command placement

BUT if what you already have gives you the results you want ignore this (especially as I may not be quite understanding why some commanders then have an additional +1 on Attack or Defense).

More important considerations at this point: just how much does the game depend on leaders? Are their Operational or Tactical board ratings more consequential for winning the game? Is the player given historical chains of command or a 'blind' selection mechanism? How much control does the player have over removals, transfers, appointments, and promotions once leaders are assigned?

 

[Gavrilo Sartorys]

More important considerations at this point: just how much does the game depend on leaders? Are their Operational or Tactical board ratings more consequential for winning the game? Is the player given historical chains of command or a 'blind' selection mechanism? How much control does the player have over removals, transfers, appointments, and promotions once leaders are assigned?

Leaders allow the player to activate his troops (by moving command on the Operational Board and moving units and subordinates on Tactical Board). I wanted to design something between "Dixie Card Game" and "Bobby Lee" by Columbia Games, in the way of what we actually see on videogames now (but without the very numerous factors, such as economy, politics, diplomacy, etc.).

To illustrate my vision, I'll try to adapt the beginning of the Peninsula Campaign (March-April 1862)

1) Confederate player :

*Three-stars commands (aka Armies)
- Dept. Northern Virginia under LTG Joe Johnston (MG D.H. Hill attached)
- - - 2 INF / 1 ART / 1 CAV = 9,000 / 36• / 4,500

*Two-stars commands (aka Corps)
- Aquia District under MG G.W. Smith
- - - 2 INF = 9,000
- Potomac District under MG Longstreet
- - - 2 INF / 1 ART = 9,000 / 36•
- Valley District under MG Jackson
- - - 2 INF / 1 ART = 9,000 / 36•
- Richmond District under MG Magruder
- - - 2 INF / 1 ART = 9,000 / 36•
- Southern Virginia District under MG Huger
- - - 1 INF = 4,500
- North Carolina District under MG Holmes
- - - 1 INF = 4,500

*Independent formations (unofficial detachments, subordinate to any corps or army commander)
- MG Ewell
- - - 1 INF = 4,500

2) Union player :

*Three-stars commands (aka Armies)
- Army of the Potomac under LTG McClellan (MGs Sumner, Heintzelman and Keyes attached)
- - - 9 INF / 5 ART / 1 CAV = 40,500 / 180• / 4,500

*Two-stars commands (aka Corps)
- Rappahannock District under MG McDowell
- - - 4 INF / 1 ART = 18,000 / 36•
- Shenandoah District under MG Banks
- - - 2 INF / 1 ART / 1 CAV = 9,000 / 36• / 4,500
- Kanawha District under LTG Frémont
- - - 3 INF = 13,500
- James District under LTG Wool
- - - 1 INF = 4,500

Each Army must be commanded by an LTG, each Corps can be commanded by an MG or an LTG. By default, deployed commands correspond to the period the game starts (from October 1861 to January 1865). Here, the Union player can decide to allow the creation of an available three-stars command (Department of Washington) to assign either Frémont or Wool in charge, both being LTGs. The subsequent vacant District must be filled with one of the most senior subordinates available in the Eastern Theater Reserve (Porter, Franklin, Ord, etc.).

On the Operational Board, troops are activated by generals in charge of three-stars commands (no more than two in the East and three in the West). For example, LTG McClellan, as the top leader in the East, uses his Initiative Value (3) either to move his own command or to activate one of his subordinate commands (McDowell's, Banks', Frémont's or Wool's) whose can also be managed by their own commanders (Frémont or Wool, being LTGs, can also activate another junior subordinate or move their troops). On the Confederate side, LTG Johnston has an Initiative Value of 5, he can activate up to two subordinate commands.

Generals with high Initiative Value can move numerous commands swiftly with great ease, wheareas unenterprising officers could really make you mad because of their slugishness ! The Confederate players possess more generals with high Initiative Value but they have less available troops than their Union counterparts.

When two enemy commands reach the same place on the Operation Board, a Battle starts. During a Battle, the generals use their initiative to move their troops on the battlefield (as for strategic level) and they give tactical bonus (Attack/Defense) to the units engaged in a fight = an attacking unit is a unit which previously moved against an enemy position (adjacent hex), the defending unit being static and able to fire first at the assaulting foe. Because the battlefield is divided into hexes, a unit can attack on one side of an hex and can be attacked later on an other side of the same hex by flanking enemy troops. MGs must be at a maximum of 3 hexes close to the units in order to give their tactical bonus, LTGs maximum being 5 hexes. The Attacking and Defending Bonuses (♣/♠) are given to the subordinates within thess ranges.

It may seems nonsense to create so much interactivity with so many officers, but I would like to make something new with some generals that almsot never had been pictured in a boardgame (such as George Bibb Crittenden or Mansfield Lovell).

The stats you've proposed (or corrected) are quite more logical in a Dixie-like game but I don't understand your choice for A.S. Johnston (1/2) = I gave him the best attacking value because of his charismatic attitude at Shiloh when he led the assault on the frontline. And every time an officer in my game reaches the maximum Tactical Value of 3, this officer is given a Special Bonus corresponding to Agressive Leader (♣) if 3 in Attack (A.S. Johnston, Bobby Lee, Ewell or Hood) or Defensive Leader (♠) if 3 in Defense (Joe Johnston or Longstreet).

It's difficult to agree on everything, the stats I'm looking for are much more Leadership Abilities rather than Commanding Value (despite being a bold strategist, Bragg always get troubles with his subordinates and lacks the ability to coordinate efficiently his troops in almost every battle he fought = I will nevertheless correct his stats as 2 - 2/1, as you suggest but I still be confused about this choice)

However, concerning A.P. Hill and other generals whose "attacks lacked recon.", I think I will create another colored circle for "Hothead" or "Reckless" trait (even Lee would be impacted I believe) = when moving and not defending a position, the troops commanded by this kind of officers would attack every unit in sight as fast as possible, and cannot be halted. The officer won't disengage his troops during a fight, even when confronting superior odds. While this "capacity" can be hard to depict in such a simple boardgame, it may add more challenge and fun during the resolution of a battle.

The promotion, destitution and transfers are managed by the players following each battle, thanks to event cards taken by the players after the result of a fight (depending on Defeat, Victory, Stalemate, etc.).

 

[Pat Answer]

A Johnston is indeed controversial (of course in some way they all are). We simply don't know if/how he would have grown in his role. But judging from 1862 I would hesitate to give him a high tactical rating as an army commander - a much greater responsibility than inspiring a brigade on the front line. (Likewise Reynolds had little business driving an enemy brigade out of McPherson's woods instead if coordinating the arrival of his corps...) Had Johnston not delegated even the attack plan at Shiloh to Beauregard, I might consider a higher number.
But, again, the "right" answer here depends on the system. If inspiration is more important than 'administration' by all means go with the high number for Johnston. Or start him at moderate and improve him with time if he survives. In that vein I see your point about Bragg. You are emphasizing coordination of effort so his growing inability to get subordinates to follow his orders should mean lower stats. (And then moving Polk should be difficult; moving Hardee or Cleburne less so, &c.)

I LOVE the "nonsense" of so much interactivity of so many officers! This means the player must pay close attention to organizing an effective fighting force before committing it to combat.

Representing the 'reckless' commander can be tricky. In Victory Games Civil War some generals give a bonus to the opponent when attacking. The commander won't necessarily continue to press a doomed attack, but may suffer initially by stumbling into an ambush (e.g., A P Hill at Bristoe Station). But at other times the opponent is also careless so the bonus is cancelled.

 

[Gavrilo Sartorys]

If inspiration is more important than 'administration' by all means go with the high number for Johnston. Or start him at moderate and improve him with time if he survives. In that vein I see your point about Bragg. You are emphasizing coordination of effort so his growing inability to get subordinates to follow his orders should mean lower stats. (And then moving Polk should be difficult; moving Hardee or Cleburne less so, &c.)

And that's why I added the "Administrator Master" Bonus. A.S. Johnston, being a wonderful or mediocre tactician, will always need more time to reinforce his units after a battle at the contrary of other generals detached from the main army (namely Bragg or Hardee). Do you think Beauregard should also get this Bonus ? From what I know, "P.G.T." would not have been that skilled as an administrator, but I may be wrong.

At Shiloh, with an Initiative Value of "only" 4, A.S. Johnston has just enough ability to activate LTG-A Beauregard (aka delegate him army command) plus moves one unit to the front, supported by its commanding general himself. If the player doesn't want to play this way with Johnston, then he can decide to activate two close MGs (either Polk, Bragg, Hardee or Breckinridge) and stay on the rear-line without giving his Tactical Value to front-line units. That's why I gave him such high numbers both in Attack and Defense, in order to get the game more "risky" at some times (with special action cards used by players during battles, a bullet can always hit your commander if he is close enough to the engaging line).

My rules are quite messy right now (I mean, this situation was the same days ago but on other points) I really don't know how to use with best interactivity the Reinforcement Phase in order to get a nice and challenging game :

1) each Campaign Phase (approximately three-month long) gives a number of available Supply Points depending on controlled territory and cities (or Strategic Places). For each turn, players can use these Supply Points to boost their troops. Skilled Administators are able to reinforce two steps with only one SP if their commands are close to a railroad (improved logistic). The Campaign phase ends when at least one player has used all of his SPs (both East and West). The other player keeps his old SPs in his reserve, soon augmented by new SPs from the next Campaign Phase.

2) each Campaign Phase gives a number of available SPs depending on conrolled territory and cities (or Strategic Places). For each turn, players can use these SPs to boost their troops, at a rate of one SP per unit per turn. Skilled Administrator are able to use as much as two SPs for each unit under there command per turn (they need to be in full charge of the command and not simply attached officers) if they are close to a railroad. The Campaign Phase end when at least one player has used all of his SPs (both East and West). The other player keeps his old SPs in his reserve, soon augmented by new SPs from the next Campaign Phase.

Official Commands determine the maximum number of unit you can reinforce per turn (Army = 4 / Corps = 2 / Independent Officers = 1). You don't need to activate a command when reinforcing it.

I think the second option is more realistic and more challenging, respecting the balance of reinforcements and only changing the rate of supply. Also, players must reinforce their troops before activating them. A player turn follow more of less this scheme :
- firstly, Reinforcement Action
- secondly, Command Activation + Move
- thirdly, Battle (eventually) + Command Evolution (aftermaths)

I LOVE the "nonsense" of so much interactivity of so many officers! This means the player must pay close attention to organizing an effective fighting force before committing it to combat.

Thanks a lot ! I'm often lost about using so many officers in a game composed of division-sized units (3,000 to 4,500) but if I add artillery in the process, then the limited initiative of some generals would be easier to represent (now, 6,000/9,000 + 24/36 guns is an average formation. The great armies of the Civil War can be represented on the Operation Board without using too much cards and without putting too much chain of command. At Gettysburg, you've got :

***ANV (SP-4) : LTG-A Bobby Lee (MG-B Stuart attached)
- - - 2 CAV = 9,000
**Potomac/1st Corps (SP-2) : LTG-B Longstreet (MG-B McLaws, MG-C Pickett, MG-C Hood attached)
- - - 6 INF / 3 ART = 18,000 / 84•
**Valley/2nd Corps (SP-2) : LTG-C Ewell (MG-C Early, MG-C Johnson, MG-D Rodes attached)
- - - 6 INF / 2 ART = 19,500 / 72•
**Aquia/3rd Corps (SP-2) : LTG-C A.P. Hill (MG-B R.H. Anderson, MG-C Trimble, MG-D Heth, MG Pender attached)
- - - 6 INF / 3 ART = 19,500 / 84•

***APO (SP-4) : LTG-D Meade (MG-B Sedgwick, MG-C Hancock, MG-C Sickles, MG-D Pleasonton attached)
- - - 2 CAV / 1 ART = 7,500 / 36•
- - - 9 INF / 3 ART = 36,000 / 108•
**Shenandoah/Right Wing (SP-2) : MG-B Slocum (MG-C Sykes attached)
- - - 5 INF / 2 ART = 21,000 / 72•
**Rappahannock/ Left Wing (SP-2) : MG-C Reynolds (MG-C Howard attached)
- - - 5 INF / 2 ART / 1 CAV = 16,500 / 72• / 4,500

When a battle starts, commands within range of the fight can reach the battlefield the next day of combat. The players then decide how to move their units and officers once entering the fight. My Battlefield Boards needs to be simplified but should also be quite large in order to allow the maximum deployement of units.

 

[Pat Answer]

You have a number of workable ideas. Run the tests. Say it's March 1, 1862, game time. If your hunch is Campaign Phase option #2 is better, use that one. If you don't have an opponent write out two strategic attack plans for the Union player. Save them and wait a few days. Lay out as flexible a contingency-based defense plan for the Confederates as you can. Then roll 1d6, using Union plan 1 on an odd or plan 2 on an even result. Shuffle your event cards and let the system do the rest. Making reasonable moves for both sides should actually lead to more draws or marginal victories (depending on how those conditions are set up). That's how you'll know your game would keep both players invested for the duration. As you test, decide whether you want battles or command/supply point management to be the main emphasis for the player. Your messy rules will clean themselves up as you increase focus.

My take on Beauregard (which one can take or leave ): He should be a very able defender. He should have decent though not spectacular administrative and initiative ratings. His weakness was a tendency to come up with confusing attack plans that did not translate well in battle.

 

[Pat Answer]

My rules are quite messy right now (I mean, this situation was the same days ago but on other points) I really don't know how to use with best interactivity the Reinforcement Phase in order to get a nice and challenging game :

You said you want to avoid going too deep into logistic/economic elements; your SP reinforcements are a perfectly fine way to abstract those.
You could try tying reinforcements to pre-game and mid-game planning. For example, Union plan 1 might emphasize gains in the western theater while plan 2 prioritizes seizing Richmond. Work out reinforcement schedules which reflect each - (relatively) more recruits and supplies appear first in the priority theater. (Meaning, controlled territory and cities give you an SP "upper limit", but the plan determines where units are formed.) Changes necessitated by circumstances would cost activation points (cost of switching units by rail, etc.). You still won't need to activate a command while doing so, but you are penalized for "guessing wrong", so to speak. When testing solitaire make adjustments as needed from the pre-planned schedule; if playing an opponent make the reinforcement phase simultaneous.* This adds to fog of war because you have to gradually figure out the priorities of the other side rather than plainly see them at the start. There should be an element of surprise when you run into more strength than anticipated on a battlefield; the "oh cr*p!" moment is part of the fun.

(*In Victory Games Civil War each turn you are assigned command points per theater based on your secret prioritization at the beginning of the last turn. Once these are revealed it is often possible that your gains against a lesser prepared opponent in one theater are cancelled by getting caught with britches down in another.)

 

[Gavrilo Sartorys]

I reworked some details (again) about creating OOB and conducting battles : players cannot move such a high number of cards directly on the campaign-board, they need another board besides in order to manage officers and troops.

I started with simple and few OOB, and would possibly complexify it following the game development.

Each team (CS / US) controls two OOB boards, one for the Western Theater, one for the Eastern Theater.

Confederate Player

***Army of Northern Virginia (HQ / Res. Div.)
- - - **First Corps (HQ / 1st-2nd-3rd Div.)
- - - **Second Corps (HQ / 1st-2nd-3rd Div.)
- **Army of the Valley (HQ / 1st-2nd Div.)
- **Army of the Peninsula (HQ / 1st-2nd Div.)

***Army of Tennessee (HQ / Res. Div.)
- - - **First Corps (HQ / 1st-2nd-3rd Div.)
- - - **Second Corps (HQ / 1st-2nd-3rd Div.)
- **Army of Mississippi (HQ / 1st-2nd Div.)
- **Army of the West (HQ / 1st-2nd Div.)

Union Player

***Army of the Potomac (HQ / Res. Cps)
- - - **Right Wing (HQ / 1st-2nd-3rd Cps)
- - - **Left Wing (HQ / 1st-2nd-3rd Cps)
- **Army of the Shenandoah (HQ / 1st-2nd Cps)
- **Army of the James (HQ / 1st-2nd Cps)

***Army of the Tennessee (HQ / Res. Cps)
- - - **Right Wing (HQ / 1st-2nd-3rd Cps)
- - - **Left Wing (HQ / 1st-2nd-3rd Cps)
- **Army of the Mississippi (HQ / 1st-2nd Cps)
- **Army of the Gulf (HQ / 1st-2nd Cps)

An Infantry Unit (II) numbers 3,000 to 4,000
A Cavalry Unit (II) numbers 2,000 to 3,000

Each Confederate Div.(*) can be composed of 1 to 3 Units (max. 9,000-12,000)
Each Union Cps (*) can be composed of 1 to 5 Units (max. 15,000-20,000)
Subordinates formations (*) cannot be detached from their main command

LTGs (***) can control two-stars or three-stars commands
MGs (**) can control one-star to two-stars commands

When acting on campaign-board, players move only their command cards, each one representing an Army, a Corps (CS) or a Wing (US). Enemy players cannot know which troops are composing which commands, thus creating a fog of war (I hope).

On the OOB-board, players have to manage hierarchy between officers and the number of troops available for each command on each theater :

- Major Armies (***) = must be commanded by an LTG (***)
- - - composed of two subordinate formations (Corps/Wings)
- - - one HQ, acting as a reserve, composed of only one unit (no more, no less)
- - - one Reserve Div. (see below)

- Minor Armies (**) = can be commanded by an LTG (***) or an MG (**)
- - - two Divisions (see below)
- - - one HQ, acting as a reserve, composed of only one unit (no more, no less)

- Corps/Wings (**) = can be commanded by an LTG (***) or an MG (**)
- - - activated by the Major Army commander's Initiative
- - - three Divisions (see below)
- - - one HQ, acting as a reserve, composed of only one unit (no more, no less)

- Div./Cps (*) = commanded by an MG (**) or without commander
- - - must be composed of at least one Unit
- - - can be led into battle without a commanding officer (no tactical bonus)

EXAMPLE - CS OOB - SEPT. 1862 :

WEST

***Army of Tennessee (LTG Bragg) = II (CAV)
- - - - - *Res. Div. (MG Withers) = II/II (INF)

- - - **First Corps (MG Polk) = II (CAV)
- - - - - *1st Div. (MG Cheatham) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *2nd Div. (MG Hardee) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *3rd Div. (MG Jones) = II/II (INF)

- - - **Second Corps (MG Kirby Smith) = II (CAV)
- - - - - *1st Div. (no general) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *2nd Div. (no general) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *3rd Div. (MG McCown) = II (INF)

- **Army of Mississippi (MG Van Dorn) = II (CAV)
- - - - - *1st Div. (MG Price) = II/II/II (INF)
- - - - - *2nd Div. (MG Lovell) = II/II (INF)

- **Army of the West (MG Holmes) = II (INF)
- - - - - *1st Div. (MG Hindman) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *2nd Div. (no general) = II/II (CAV)

EAST

***Army of Northern Virginia (LTG Bobby Lee) = II (INF)
- - - - - *Res. Div. (MG Stuart) = II/II (CAV)

- - - **First Corps (MG Longstreet) = II (INF)
- - - - - *1st Div. (MG McLaws) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *2nd Div. (no general) = II/II/II (INF)
- - - - - *3rd Div. (no general) = II (INF)

- - - **Second Corps (MG D.H. Hill) = II (INF)
- - - - - *1st Div. (MG R.H. Anderson) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *2nd Div. (no general) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *3rd Div. (no general) = II (INF)

- **Army of the Valley (MG Jackson) = II (INF)
- - - - - *1st Div. (MG Ewell) = II/II (INF)
- - - - - *2nd Div. (MG A.P. Hill) = II/II/II (INF)

- **Army of the Peninsula (MG G.W. Smith) = II (CAV)
- - - - - *1st Div. (MG French) = II (INF)
- - - - - *2nd Div. (no general) = II (INF)

 

[tony_gunter]

Hi, I'm actually working on a Civil War boardgame combining with plastic cards rather than wooden blocks (no materials at home). The main part is done (the rules) but, when I get into details, the officers' tactical skills and initiative are quite difficult to manage, in order to bring more balance and historical value when battle phases are played.

(Brief explanations = to create the rules, I was mainly inspired by Dixie Card Games and Bobby Lee Boardgame).

In a battle phase, each player places his cards (units of 2,000 (II) to 3,000 (III) effective men) on his battlefield part (rear-line left wing, rear-line right wing, reserve).

The front-line is common to both players and determines who's the attacker and who's the defender.

Battle phase is composed of many rounds. For each round, a player has three choices :

- moving unengaged units.

- disengaging units from combat.

- firing at the enemy with engaged units (aka units placed on the top of left & right wings, in contact with enemy units).

One unit cannot move and fire in the same round (exceptions, see General Abilities).

A unit (representing approximately a brigade) can attack with 2 (II) or 3 (III) eight-sided dice, with a standard combat value of 1.

The combat value represents the maximum score obtained with the dice to inflict a casualtie on an other unit. To boost this combat value, the generals necessarily provide tactical values and bonuses.

There are three general ranks available =

- Brigadier-General (Division Command (CS) or Corps Command (US)), who can command only standard units

- Major-General (Corps Command (CS) or Army Command (US)), who can command BGs or standard units

- Lieutenant-General (Army Command (CS) or Army Group Command (US)), who can command every cards of lesser rank (BGs, MGs and standard units)

Each general card contains several pieces of informations, otherwise than name and rank =

1) - Initiative Value (A, B or C, regarding strategic and moving skills in front of an enemy). It determines more generally which player begins the battle phase. Exceptionally, a general in attacking posture will fire directly against units commanded by a general with a lesser Initiative Value (B or C, regarding the value of the attacking general). In any other case, the battle phase isn't affected by the Initiative Value.

2) - Command Capacity (number or subordinate the general can control in a single position, ranging from 2 to 6).

Example : an LTG with a CC of 5 can commit into the front five subordinates units (either MGs, BGs or standard units). It can be clever to gather many subordinate generals under his command in order to allow a great concentration of fighting units (in this case, the LTG can command three MGs, each of them also commanding subordinate units, either BGs or standard units. The BGs under their commands can also be in charge of other subordinate units, creatin a huge chain of command).

3) - Tactical Value (and Tactical Bonuses) represents the battle skills showed by the generals. A Tactical Value (TV) is ranging from 1 (weak) to 3 (strong) and is attached to the Initiative Value (for example = A2, B3, C1, etc.). Only MGs and LTGs have Tactical Bonus (TB), which provides 0 (weak) to 2 (strong) points more to the TV of their subordinates.

During a combat, the generals who are directly in command of the engaged units (subordinate generals) provide their own Initiative Value and Tactical Value to the engaged units, while their direct commanding officers provide them Tactical Bonuses.

I know that these rules can be exceptonally boring and clumsily explained but I hope it would allow the full comprehension of what is the purpose of this thread : I need some advices to complete my generals stats before printing the cards. If anyone is looking for a better explanation, don't hesitate ! I did'nt write in English for several months and I believe that I've lost my touch with the process.

Nevermind, here are my first edition project for the CSA. Enjoy and react !

Officers List (CSA) (for #/#, the 1st number is the attack bonus, the 2nd is the defense bonus):

- LTG Sidney Johnston (A3 - 2/1) = CC3
- LTG Bobby Lee (A3 - 2/2) = CC3
- LTG Joe Johnston (A2 - 1/2) = CC3
- LTG Beauregard (A2 - 1/1) = CC3
- LTG Bragg (A1 - 1/0) = CC3
- MG Polk (B1 - 0/0) = CC2
- MG Van Dorn (A1 - 0/0) = CC2
- MG Magruder (B2 - 0/1) = CC2
- MG Hardee (A2 - 1/1) = CC4
- MG Longstreet (A3 - 1/2) = CC4
- MG Jackson (A3 - 2/2) = CC3
- MG Kirby Smith (A2 - 1/0) = CC2
- MG Ewell (B2 - 1/0) = CC3
- MG A. P. Hill (B2 - 0/0) = CC3
- MG D. H. Hill (B2 - 0/1) = CC3
- MG Hood (A2 - 1/0) = CC3
- MG Anderson (A2 - 1/1) = CC3
- MG Early (A2 - 1/0) = CC3
- MG Stewart (B2 - 1/1) = CC3
- MG S. D. Lee (A2 - 0/1) = CC3
- BG Ewell (A2) = CC2
- BG Loring (B2) = CC3
- BG Cheatham (B3) = CC4
- BG D. H. Hill (B3) = CC3
- BG Hindman (B2) = CC2
- BG Breckinridge (A2) = CC4
- BG McLaws (B2) = CC2
- BG A. P. Hill (A2) = CC4
- BG Anderson (A2) = CC3
- BG Buckner (B2) = CC4
- BG Hood (A3) = CC2
- BG Pickett (B1) = CC3
- BG Cleburne (A3) = CC2
- BG Early (A2) = CC3
- BG Johnson (B2) = CC2
- BG Rodes (B2) = CC3
- BG Heth (A1) = CC3
- BG Stewart (B3) = CC2
- BG S. D. Lee (A2) = CC2
- BG Gordon (A3) = CC3

The Union list will follow soon.

Playing the Earl Van Dorn card should result in immediate victory for the other team. Playing the Loring card should result in a savings throw against having all of the forces stacked with him to wander off the battlefield in a random direction.

 

[Gavrilo Sartorys]

Playing the Earl Van Dorn card should result in immediate victory for the other team. Playing the Loring card should result in a savings throw against having all of the forces stacked with him to wander off the battlefield in a random direction.

Haha, I won't get that far but some officers would surely be incompetent / ineffective commanders in combat phase.
I don't rate Loring low, I believe he was a competent officer and I expected to give him a decent tactical bonus with an average initiative value. Also, I modified quite a bit the effects of officers on the game :

An officer card is composed of several parts :
- name + photograph of the officer
- rank + seniority (stars & letter from A to E)
- Initiative Value (numbers of "stars" he can activate, from 1-2 (low) to 3-4 (high))
- Tactical Value (bonus given to Units when fighting whether attacking or defending, from 0 to 2)
- Optional Bonus (Attacker (♣), Defender (♠), Master Administrator (♥), Fast Mover (♦))
- - - ♣ = +1 Tactical Value of an engaged subordinate attacking (max. 2)
- - - ♠ = +1 Tactical Value of an engaged subordinate defending (max. 2)
- - - ♥ = doubles the speed of recovering (depending on available Supply Points) while resting
- - - ♦ = +1 hex speed to any subordinate / to the command (2 for Infantry, 3 for Cavalry)

EXAMPLES (prototypes, no definitive stats) :

LTG-A A.S. Johnston = 3 - 2/1 (♣)
LTG-A Bobby Lee = 4 - 2/2 (♣/♦)
LTG-A Joe Johnston = 3 - 1/2 (♠/♥)
LTG-A Beauregard = 3 - 1/2 (♠)
LTG-B Polk = 1 - 0/1
LTG-B Bragg = 2 - 1/0 (♥)
LTG-B Longstreet = 3 - 2/2 (♠/♥)
LTG-B Jackson = 3 - 2/2 (♣/♦)
LTG-B Kirby Smith = 2 - 2/1 (♦/♥)
LTG-B Hardee = 2 - 2/1 (♥)
LTG-B Holmes = 1 - 0/1 (♥)
LTG-B Pemberton = 1 - 1/1
LTG-C Ewell = 2 - 2/1
LTG-C A.P. Hill = 2 - 1/1
LTG-C D.H. Hill = 2 - 2/2 (♠)
LTG-C Taylor = 3 - 2/2 (♣/♥)
LTG-C R.H. Anderson = 3 - 1/2 (♥)
LTG-C Early = 3 - 2/1 (♦)
LTG-C Buckner = 2 - 1/1
LTG-D Hood = 2 - 2/2
LTG-D Stewart = 2 - 1/1
LTG-D S.D. Lee = 3 - 1/2 (♠)
LTG-D Hampton = 3 - 2/1 (♦/♥)
LTG-D Forrest = 3 - 2/1 (♣/♦)
MG-A Polk = 1 - 0/1
MG-A Bragg = 2 - 1/0 (♥)
MG-A Van Dorn = 1 - 2/0 (♦)
MG-A G.W. Smith = 1 - 1/1
MG-A Magruder = 2 - 1/2 (♠)
MG-A Huger = 1 - 0/1 (♥)
MG-A Holmes = 1 - 0/1 (♥)
MG-A Longstreet = 3 - 2/2 (♠/♥)
MG-A Jackson = 3 - 2/2 (♣/♦)
MG-A Hardee = 2 - 2/1 (♥)
MG-A Kirby Smith = 2 - 2/1 (♦/♥)
MG-A Pemberton = 1 - 1/1
MG-A Lovell = 1 - 1/1
MG-A Crittenden = 1 - 1/1
MG-B Loring = 2 - 1/2 (♠)
MG-B Ewell = 2 - 2/1
MG-B Price = 1 - 0/1
MG-B Cheatham = 2 - 1/2
MG-B McCown = 1 - 1/1
MG-B Sam Jones = 2 - 1/1 (♥)
MG-B D.R. Jones = 1 - 1/1
MG-B D.H. Hill = 2 - 2/2 (♠)
MG-B Hindman = 2 - 1/1
MG-B Breckinridge = 2 - 2/1 (♥)
MG-B Withers = 2 - 1/1
MG-B McLaws = 1 - 1/2
MG-B A.P. Hill = 2 - 2/2 (♦)
MG-B Stuart = 2 - 2/1 (♦)
MG-B R.H. Anderson = 3 - 1/2 (♥)
MG-B Taylor = 3 - 2/1 (♣/♥)
MG-B Buckner = 2 - 1/1
MG-B French = 1 - 1/1
MG-B Early = 3 - 2/1 (♦)
MG-C Pickett = 1 - 1/1
MG-C Stevenson = 1 - 1/1
MG-C Hood = 2 - 2/2
MG-C Forney = 2 - 1/1 (♥)
MG-C Maury = 2 - 1/2 (♥)
MG-C J.G. Walker = 2 - 1/1 (♦)
MG-C Elzey = 1 - 1/1 (♥)
MG-C Cleburne = 2 - 2/2 (♠)
MG-C Gardner = 1 - 1/2
MG-C Trimble = 1 - 2/1 (♦)
MG-C Johnson = 2 - 2/1
MG-C Whiting = 1 - 1/1 (♥)
MG-C Heth = 2 - 1/1
MG-C Rodes = 2 - 2/1
MG-C Pender = 2 - 2/1 (♦)
MG-C W.H.T. Walker = 2 - 1/1
MG-C Ransom = 1 - 1/1
MG-C Wilcox = 2 - 1/2
MG-C Stewart = 2 - 1/1
MG-C Hampton = 3 - 2/1 (♦/♥)
MG-C Wheeler = 2 - 2/1 (♦)
MG-C Forrest = 3 - 2/1 (♣/♦)
MG-C S.D. Lee = 3 - 1/2 (♠)
MG-D Patton Anderson = 1 - 2/1
MG-D Field = 2 - 1/1 (♥)
MG-D Bate = 1 - 1/1
MG-D Hoke = 2 - 1/2
MG-D Gordon = 3 - 2/1 (♣)
MG-D Kershaw = 2 - 2/1
MG-D B.R. Johnson = 1 - 1/1
MG-D Ramseur = 1 - 2/1
MG-D Walthall = 2 - 1/1
MG-D Mahone = 1 - 1/2

 

[Scott1967]

Hmm your pretty spot on with your ratings but their are a few I would change imho

Bate should be a 2

Ramseur 2

Mahone 2

Pender 3

These of course are my opinion.

 

[RoBert "Bert" Hile]

Hi, I'm actually working on a Civil War boardgame combining with plastic cards rather than wooden blocks (no materials at home). The main part is done (the rules) but, when I get into details, the officers' tactical skills and initiative are quite difficult to manage, in order to bring more balance and historical value when battle phases are played.

(Brief explanations = to create the rules, I was mainly inspired by Dixie Card Games and Bobby Lee Boardgame).

In a battle phase, each player places his cards (units of 2,000 (II) to 3,000 (III) effective men) on his battlefield part (rear-line left wing, rear-line right wing, reserve).

The front-line is common to both players and determines who's the attacker and who's the defender.

Battle phase is composed of many rounds. For each round, a player has three choices :

- moving unengaged units.

- disengaging units from combat.

- firing at the enemy with engaged units (aka units placed on the top of left & right wings, in contact with enemy units).

One unit cannot move and fire in the same round (exceptions, see General Abilities).

A unit (representing approximately a brigade) can attack with 2 (II) or 3 (III) eight-sided dice, with a standard combat value of 1.

The combat value represents the maximum score obtained with the dice to inflict a casualtie on an other unit. To boost this combat value, the generals necessarily provide tactical values and bonuses.

There are three general ranks available =

- Brigadier-General (Division Command (CS) or Corps Command (US)), who can command only standard units

- Major-General (Corps Command (CS) or Army Command (US)), who can command BGs or standard units

- Lieutenant-General (Army Command (CS) or Army Group Command (US)), who can command every cards of lesser rank (BGs, MGs and standard units)

Each general card contains several pieces of informations, otherwise than name and rank =

1) - Initiative Value (A, B or C, regarding strategic and moving skills in front of an enemy). It determines more generally which player begins the battle phase. Exceptionally, a general in attacking posture will fire directly against units commanded by a general with a lesser Initiative Value (B or C, regarding the value of the attacking general). In any other case, the battle phase isn't affected by the Initiative Value.

2) - Command Capacity (number or subordinate the general can control in a single position, ranging from 2 to 6).

Example : an LTG with a CC of 5 can commit into the front five subordinates units (either MGs, BGs or standard units). It can be clever to gather many subordinate generals under his command in order to allow a great concentration of fighting units (in this case, the LTG can command three MGs, each of them also commanding subordinate units, either BGs or standard units. The BGs under their commands can also be in charge of other subordinate units, creatin a huge chain of command).

3) - Tactical Value (and Tactical Bonuses) represents the battle skills showed by the generals. A Tactical Value (TV) is ranging from 1 (weak) to 3 (strong) and is attached to the Initiative Value (for example = A2, B3, C1, etc.). Only MGs and LTGs have Tactical Bonus (TB), which provides 0 (weak) to 2 (strong) points more to the TV of their subordinates.

During a combat, the generals who are directly in command of the engaged units (subordinate generals) provide their own Initiative Value and Tactical Value to the engaged units, while their direct commanding officers provide them Tactical Bonuses.

I know that these rules can be exceptonally boring and clumsily explained but I hope it would allow the full comprehension of what is the purpose of this thread : I need some advices to complete my generals stats before printing the cards. If anyone is looking for a better explanation, don't hesitate ! I did'nt write in English for several months and I believe that I've lost my touch with the process.

Nevermind, here are my first edition project for the CSA. Enjoy and react !

Officers List (CSA) (for #/#, the 1st number is the attack bonus, the 2nd is the defense bonus):

- LTG Sidney Johnston (A3 - 2/1) = CC3
- LTG Bobby Lee (A3 - 2/2) = CC3
- LTG Joe Johnston (A2 - 1/2) = CC3
- LTG Beauregard (A2 - 1/1) = CC3
- LTG Bragg (A1 - 1/0) = CC3
- MG Polk (B1 - 0/0) = CC2
- MG Van Dorn (A1 - 0/0) = CC2
- MG Magruder (B2 - 0/1) = CC2
- MG Hardee (A2 - 1/1) = CC4
- MG Longstreet (A3 - 1/2) = CC4
- MG Jackson (A3 - 2/2) = CC3
- MG Kirby Smith (A2 - 1/0) = CC2
- MG Ewell (B2 - 1/0) = CC3
- MG A. P. Hill (B2 - 0/0) = CC3
- MG D. H. Hill (B2 - 0/1) = CC3
- MG Hood (A2 - 1/0) = CC3
- MG Anderson (A2 - 1/1) = CC3
- MG Early (A2 - 1/0) = CC3
- MG Stewart (B2 - 1/1) = CC3
- MG S. D. Lee (A2 - 0/1) = CC3
- BG Ewell (A2) = CC2
- BG Loring (B2) = CC3
- BG Cheatham (B3) = CC4
- BG D. H. Hill (B3) = CC3
- BG Hindman (B2) = CC2
- BG Breckinridge (A2) = CC4
- BG McLaws (B2) = CC2
- BG A. P. Hill (A2) = CC4
- BG Anderson (A2) = CC3
- BG Buckner (B2) = CC4
- BG Hood (A3) = CC2
- BG Pickett (B1) = CC3
- BG Cleburne (A3) = CC2
- BG Early (A2) = CC3
- BG Johnson (B2) = CC2
- BG Rodes (B2) = CC3
- BG Heth (A1) = CC3
- BG Stewart (B3) = CC2
- BG S. D. Lee (A2) = CC2
- BG Gordon (A3) = CC3

The Union list will follow soon.

For the sake of play, don't make your list. I have a 15 mm miniatures game and all of my generals from Brig up have a die roll. The number of appointed Generals and even those from West Point can get you killed just as fast as an ROTC train officer. I use a 6-sided die which is rolled at the beginning of the game, after all, die rolls on officers are made. If the number is 4 and up then 6 is the best officer and units work better, fight harder, and stand longer. If the number rolled is 3 or below the top number is 1. ( A Lee or Jackson would be a 1.) That number if that officer is near within 3 inches, is applied to any moral roll and is either as in a Grant or Lee a plus or a minus. Don't forget a Colornal can affect the unit as well that is why units get a roll as well within the Brigade and their roll with their plus and munis also comes into effect and you can get a unit that will flat stand there and not move, as at the Bloody Angle during Pickett's charge. This makes your choices more important and you really have to deal with what Lee and Grant had to deal with. Where is Ewell and why hasn't he moved up that hill? Or you have a Brag or a Butler and your day will not be good. That is what command and control can really send you sideways into oncoming traffic. But if you handle it with more defense and less aggression with standing behind walls, support, and supply of ammo at hand (railroad embankment at Second Manassas with no ammo and still standing) you just might win and that would give you some bragging rights. Remember Sun Tzu said only fight when things are in your favor. Well, that would mean no war game would be fought. Officers of lesser rank who had command control, through drill and training would not rout off as Sherman at First Bull Run. His unit didn't break or rout at all and stood to let the union army get away after it broke. But there were many who only did the basic and therefore really hurt the unit's ability. Standing in cover gives a boost to any unit. Behind the military hillcrest is something that allows the "Stonewall Brigade" to get its name, which may not really be deserved (and I'm a Confederate). You got 4 years of fighting to remember and how each battle brought out what did what and how did how. Officer education in combat teaches, and sadly the troops pay for that education. War is hell.

 

[Pat Answer]

I would say a 'list' is appropriate for this project, because of the mix of levels (strategic, operational, "grand tactical"), as opposed to a miniatures game where the emphasis is usually more on specific unit morale and firing ranges. But there is certainly something to be said for a system of 'randomized' command stats (which version of General So-and-So shows up: Mr. Brilliant or Mr. Lack-of-Sleep or Mr. Tipped-the-Bottle, etc.?).

War is hell.

Indeed. And simulating it on a board or a computer screen is always a tricky balancing act of historical research, playability, and the right amount of uncertainty.

 

[Saphroneth]

But there is certainly something to be said for a system of 'randomized' command stats (which version of General So-and-So shows up: Mr. Brilliant or Mr. Lack-of-Sleep or Mr. Tipped-the-Bottle, etc.?).

This I think is a very good idea. I know that in the Civ V Civil War scenario then the first action fought by a division is what decides what their commander's stats are (picked randomly from a list).

How about this?

Each commander has a number of cards between two and four.
Each commander's card (when drawn) starts out face down, and on the reverse you have listed the stats for that general which don't change (for example, any version of Jackson has the MG rank and a CC of 3).
Then when their units first get into combat where the values on the obverse matter, you flip the card and find out which version of Jackson you've got today - do you have Stonewall in the Valley (A3, 2/2) or do you have Stonewall at the Bull Run battles (A2, 0/2) or do you have him at the Seven Days (C3, 1/1)...