Need some help: Joseph E. Hargrave

[bdtex]

So I am a member and volunteer of the Crown Hill Cemetery Association in Pasadena, Texas. Posted a thread about the cemetery in the Cemeteries forum. It was the original city cemetery of Pasadena, Texas. We have some evidence that Mr. Joseph E. Hargrave is buried there. See death certificate above.

Joseph Elijah “Joe” Hargrave (1846-1916) - Find a...

www.findagrave.com

We also have evidence that an infant grandson is buried there.

Infant Son Hargrave (1924-1924) - Find a Grave...

Infant son of Wilbur and Ethel (Blakesley) Hargrave. Birth/death information per Texas State Board of Health, Bureau of Vital Statistics. Stillborn at 5:30 A.M.

www.findagrave.com

Don't want to cram everything in the OP, so I'm gonna break up what we have evidence of and/or know in subsequent posts.

 

[bdtex]

In September 1909, our Joseph E. Hargrave filled out a Confederate Pension Application which was filed on August 22,1910 and approved August 31, 1910 on 2 witness affidavits of men who allegedly served in the same regiment. In the application, he stated he was a resident of Liberty County and that is confirmed in the 1910 Census. Here is the pertinent part of the Application:

Captain "D.C. Maulding", his Company Commander, was one of the witnesses. He said Pvt. Hargrave enlisted in Goliad County. The other witness was a Robert Weir who said Pvt. Hargrave was already a member of the company and regiment when Mr. Weir enlisted in February 1864. Neither Joseph Hargrave, D.C. Maulding or Robert Weir could remember the alphabet letter of the company or number of the regiment. Joseph Hargrave did say it was a Cavalry regiment. All 3 said "John S. Ford" was the commander of the regiment.

 

[bdtex]

Col. John S. "Rip" Ford was the commander of the 2nd Texas Cavalry. There is no record in fold3 or the NPS Soldiers and Sailors Database of a "Joseph E.", "Joseph" or "J.E." Hargrave, "D.C. Maulding" or "Robert Weir" in the 2nd Texas Cavalry. There is no record of "D.C. Maulding" at all in fold3. The only "Robert Weir" I found in a Texas regiment was in the 8th Texas Cavalry but he enlisted in 1861, not February 1864.

 

[bdtex]

We did find this for "D.C. Maulding":

D C Maulding

cemetery.texas.gov

Dewitt C. Maulding I (1827-1923) - Find a Grave...

D. C. Maulding Confederate Veteran Birth Date: 1827 Died: September 2, 1923 Buried: September 3. 1923 Co. D. 4th. Tex. Cav. Bee's Brig. Texas Army

www.findagrave.com

Those sources say he was in the 4th Texas Cavalry. There is no "Joseph E. Hargrave", "D.C. Maulding" or "Robert Weir" in the 4th Texas Cavalry in the NPS Soldiers and Sailors Database and no "Dewitt Maulding" in fold3.

 

[bdtex]

"D.C. Maulding" submitted a Confederate Pension Application in August 1914, approved same month, also upon witness affidavits.

Two of the witnesses said he served with them as Captain of the Company in Ford's Regiment. Neither Maulding nor the 2 witnesses could remember the alphabetical designation of the Company or number of the regiment.

 

[bdtex]

We are trying to verify Mr. Hargrave's Confederate service before we do anything to honor it at Crown Hill Cemetery. I am highly skeptical myself. I told the President of the Cemetery Association that I would enlist the help of some eyes and wicked research skills of folks here in CWT to see if y'all can find something we missed and/or tie together what we have found, which is really nothing more than a couple of Pension Applications.

 

[Story]

We are trying to verify Mr. Hargrave's Confederate service before we do anything to honor it at Crown Hill Cemetery. I am highly skeptical myself. I told the President of the Cemetery Association that I would enlist the help of some eyes and wicked research skills of folks here in CWT to see if y'all can find something we missed and/or tie together what we have found, which is really nothing more than a couple of Pension Applications.

I remember there being a Texas (specific) folder of military service cards (including pre-war for service against marauding Indians) that would be worth checking.

NOTE: these (3x5 IIRC) cards sometimes even have details like what equipment enlistees were credited with bringing into service ("double barrel shotgun. Saddle. etc)

 

[Story]

Col. John S. "Rip" Ford was the commander of the 2nd Texas Cavalry. There is no record in fold3 or the NPS Soldiers and Sailors Database of a "Joseph E.", "Joseph" or "J.E." Hargrave, "D.C. Maulding" or "Robert Weir" in the 2nd Texas Cavalry. There is no record of "D.C. Maulding" at all in fold3. The only "Robert Weir" I found in a Texas regiment was in the 8th Texas Cavalry but he enlisted in 1861, not February 1864.

Just spitballing, but did you try last names only for Hargrave, Maulding and Weir in the 2nd TX Cav?

Then backing up a step, misspellings of those three names? Hargrove / Malling Mauding / Wire Were / etc?

 

[Story]

Col. John S. "Rip" Ford was the commander of the 2nd Texas Cavalry.

Those sources say he was in the 4th Texas Cavalry.

All 3 said "John S. Ford" was the commander of the regiment.

As the war ground down, did the 4th TX Cav get absorbed into the 2nd TX Cav?

Being lazy, Wiki says this

In 1864, the (4th TX Cavalry) regiment fought at Mansfield and Pleasant Hill in the Red River Campaign. The unit surrendered in May 1865.

It (2nd TX Cavalry) returned to Texas in winter 1863 and remained there until the surrender in June 1865.

In the FOLD3 files, at the beginning of each Regiment's listings is/are usually a few pages noting Regimental affairs. Sometimes consolidations are mentioned.

Another notion: the compilers of the hand-written cards in FOLD3 were by no means military experts. Can any of the names be found in the folders for the 2nd or 4th Texas Mounted Rifles?

 

[bdtex]

Just spitballing, but did you try last names only for Hargrave, Maulding and Weir in the 2nd TX Cav?

Then backing up a step, misspellings of those three names? Hargrove / Malling Mauding / Wire Were / etc?

Yes.

 

[bdtex]

I remember there being a Texas (specific) folder of military service cards (including pre-war for service against marauding Indians) that would be worth checking.

NOTE: these (3x5 IIRC) cards sometimes even have details like what equipment enlistees were credited with bringing into service ("double barrel shotgun. Saddle. etc)

Yes I did. None for Hargrave. He was only 14 when the war started.

Only this for Maulding:

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

"D.C. Maulding" submitted a Confederate Pension Application in August 1914, approved same month, also upon witness affidavits.

View attachment 556816

View attachment 556817

Two of the witnesses said he served with them as Captain of the Company in Ford's Regiment. Neither Maulding nor the 2 witnesses could remember the alphabetical designation of the Company or number of the regiment.

It's interesting but believable that they couldn't recall the alphabetical designations of their units.

 

[bdtex]

In the FOLD3 files, at the beginning of each Regiment's listings is/are usually a few pages noting Regimental affairs. Sometimes consolidations are mentioned.

Not sure how to do that.

 

[Story]

Not sure how to do that.

The way I remember doing it was to go to the first guy in a particular Regiment (obviously the A names) and then keep going towards the 'cover page'. The Regimental information should be the first few pages after that cover.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Not sure how to do that.

Some people will not admit it if they don't know how to do something. Good for you!

 

[Story]

It's interesting but believable that they couldn't recall the alphabetical designations of their units.

45 years of actively trying to forget something, that's to be expected.

 

[bdtex]

The way I remember doing it was to go to the first guy in a particular Regiment (obviously the A names) and then keep going towards the 'cover page'. The Regimental information should be the first few pages after that cover.

Again, I don't know how to do that. One of the reasons for posting this thread was to enlist the wicked research skills of any member here so willing.

 

[bdtex]

45 years of actively trying to forget something, that's to be expected.

Could be, but I rarely see that. I think it rather odd too that 5 soldiers who all supposedly served in the same company and regiment could not remember the alphabetical and numerical unit designation

 

[Story]

View attachment 556817

Two of the witnesses said he served with them as Captain of the Company in Ford's Regiment. Neither Maulding nor the 2 witnesses could remember the alphabetical designation of the Company or number of the regiment.

It might be nothing, but if we take "Belonged to John S Ford's Division when the war closed" at face value, that would imply multiple regiments - right?

 

[Story]

Again, I don't know how to do that. One of the reasons for posting this thread was to enlist the wicked research skills of any member here so willing.

If I still had access to FOLD3, I'd have checked it for ya in less time than it took to describe it.

Maybe someone else will come along with access and walk their fingers back.