Need a fold3 lookup

[John Winn]

Once again I could really use some help getting the record for a man whose stone we're going to repair. He's:

W. W. Stanfield (native of Ohio) - it was either William Wesley or Wesley William (probably the first)
Co. E 14th Iowa Infantry
Sergeant

I've found some info on the 14th and it says he enlisted 23 Sept 1861 but was transferred to the Invalid Corps 1 Aug 1863. No further record is available. I've not had any success with the NPS site (other than to find his name in the 14th) and don't have Fold3 or know how to use it now. It would be nice to know where he fought and why he ended up in the Invalid Corps (and when he was discharged). He's buried in Medford, OR.

Thanks so much for whatever you are able to do. Y'all have helped me so much before.

 

[lupaglupa]

I found some other things. Wesley W Stanfield enlisted in the 14th Iowa as a 5th sergeant, was promoted to 4th sergeant January 1, 1862, 3rd sergeant March 31, 1862. At his enlistment he was 30 years old. In his GAR records he gives his occupation as attorney. He was born in Ohio.

He went into 5th Regiment of the Veteran Reserve Corps as a sergeant - I don't have dates for that. But I do have the dates for where he went next - the USCT. Stanfield was a captain in Company G of the 127th US Colored Infantry. He joined for duty September 17, 1864 at Washington, DC. He took command of the company at Camp William Penn in Pennsylvania. The July/August 1865 muster roll shows him out on sick leave. In September of 1865 he was honorably discharged as "supernumerary by consolidation." There's a letter in his file giving him medical leave but no explanation as to why.

He filed for an invalid pension in 1891 from Oregon and his widow filed in 1898.

 

[Gibbon]

Once again I could really use some help getting the record for a man whose stone we're going to repair. He's:

W. W. Stanfield (native of Ohio) - it was either William Wesley or Wesley William (probably the first)
Co. E 14th Iowa Infantry
Sergeant

I've found some info on the 14th and it says he enlisted 23 Sept 1861 but was transferred to the Invalid Corps 1 Aug 1863. No further record is available. I've not had any success with the NPS site (other than to find his name in the 14th) and don't have Fold3 or know how to use it now. It would be nice to know where he fought and why he ended up in the Invalid Corps (and when he was discharged). He's buried in Medford, OR
Thanks so much for whatever you are able to do. Y'all have helped me so much before.

The regiment fought at Donaldson, Shiloh, Corinth and unspecified location prior to August 63. He is not listed in the wounded for those. There were 55 listed as pow and 178 listed as missing in the Shiloh battle at the Hornets Nest. He is not listed in either the pow or missing list.

 

[Story]

Once again I could really use some help getting the record for a man whose stone we're going to repair.

So if Stansfield's highest rank was Captain and his stone is marked Sgt, how does getting a corrected stone work?

127th Infantry Regiment - United States Colored Troops (USCT)

ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-SEVENTH REGIMENT INFANTRY USCT Commanding Officer COLONEL Benjamin F. Tracy This regiment was the last to leave Camp William Penn. It was ordered to City Point, Va., in September, 1864, and there attached to the Tenth Corps. Its movements and engagements were identical...

www.usct.org

SGT William Wesley Stanfield (1829-1897) - Find a...

Wesley last served as captain, Co. G, 127th US Colored Infantry. That he was a captain is noted in his obituary and the unit is noted in his USCT service record and on his pension application (as well as his wife's application).

www.findagrave.com

 

[lupaglupa]

If the original application was made by the family then they chose the unit and rank. I'd go with that.

 

[Story]

If the original application was made by the family then they chose the unit and rank. I'd go with that.

Did he (or they) collection a pension for a Sergeant or a Captain?

Requesting a replacement government headstone or marker | Veterans Affairs

If you’re the family member of a deceased Veteran who was given a government-issued headstone or marker, and you want to replace it, we may be able to give you a replacement. Keep reading on this page to learn about eligibility for a replacement headstone or marker.

www.va.gov

 

[lupaglupa]

Did he (or they) collection a pension for a Sergeant or a Captain?

Requesting a replacement government headstone or marker | Veterans Affairs

If you’re the family member of a deceased Veteran who was given a government-issued headstone or marker, and you want to replace it, we may be able to give you a replacement. Keep reading on this page to learn about eligibility for a replacement headstone or marker.

www.va.gov

The pension card lists all three units he served with. I assume they paid out at the higher level.

 

[Story]

The pension card lists all three units he served with. I assume they paid out at the higher level.

I'm going to extrapolate on what I was implying in my previous post - if it was ok to take pension money for service as a Captain in the 127th USCT, why shouldn't his headstone reflect that? After all, it's pretty standard for grave markers to reflect highest rank achieved.

Unless his family didn't want service in an African American unit to be known to the locals, at that time in our history.

[Subtext: it chaffs my buttocks when any American *has* to hide his service based on the opinions of others.]

 

[John Winn]

If the original application was made by the family then they chose the unit and rank. I'd go with that.

The stone application doesn't say who applied but my guess would be the local GAR chapter as they honored him. His wife and daughter returned to Iowa right after his death and his wife somehow later ended up in California where she died in 1910. It's possible they didn't know about his USCT service. I've found several GAR-ordered stones where there were errors (one had the wrong unit entirely).

 

[John Winn]

So if Stansfield's highest rank was Captain and his stone is marked Sgt, how does getting a corrected stone work?

127th Infantry Regiment - United States Colored Troops (USCT)

ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-SEVENTH REGIMENT INFANTRY USCT Commanding Officer COLONEL Benjamin F. Tracy This regiment was the last to leave Camp William Penn. It was ordered to City Point, Va., in September, 1864, and there attached to the Tenth Corps. Its movements and engagements were identical...

www.usct.org

SGT William Wesley Stanfield (1829-1897) - Find a...

Wesley last served as captain, Co. G, 127th US Colored Infantry. That he was a captain is noted in his obituary and the unit is noted in his USCT service record and on his pension application (as well as his wife's application).

www.findagrave.com

These days if one isn't a family member they don't want to play ball. There's some weasel words in the regs that say that groups that represent veterans (e.g. the VFW) can apply for stones but in our experience they don't honor that.


"In most cases, you can apply for one of these memorial items if you're representing the deceased Veteran, service member, or family member in any of these relationships or professional roles.

One of these must describe your relationship to the deceased:

• A family member, or
• A personal representative (someone who officially represents the deceased), or
• A representative of an accredited Veterans Service Organization, or
• An employee of a state or local government whose official responsibilities include serving Veterans, or
• Any person who's legally responsible for making arrangements for unclaimed remains or for details having to do with the deceased's interment or memorialization, or
• Any individual representing the deceased, if the Veteran's service ended before April 6, 1917"

In this case there's no known living family. That said, I imagine some very distant cousins exist as the guy had a number of children but I rather think they'd be quite difficult to find and they'd likely never have heard of this guy. It's not worth it to me to fight that battle so Sergeant he shall remain. We will, though, re-set his stone properly.

 

[lupaglupa]

These days if one isn't a family member they don't want to play ball. There's some weasel words in the regs that say that groups that represent veterans (e.g. the VFW) can apply for stones but in our experience they don't honor that.


"In most cases, you can apply for one of these memorial items if you're representing the deceased Veteran, service member, or family member in any of these relationships or professional roles.

One of these must describe your relationship to the deceased:

• A family member, or
• A personal representative (someone who officially represents the deceased), or
• A representative of an accredited Veterans Service Organization, or
• An employee of a state or local government whose official responsibilities include serving Veterans, or
• Any person who's legally responsible for making arrangements for unclaimed remains or for details having to do with the deceased's interment or memorialization, or
• Any individual representing the deceased, if the Veteran's service ended before April 6, 1917"

In this case there's no known living family. That said, I imagine some very distant cousins exist as the guy had a number of children but I rather think they'd be quite difficult to find and they'd likely never have heard of this guy. It's not worth it to me to fight that battle so Sergeant he shall remain. We will, though, re-set his stone properly.

Maybe the next step would be to add the USCT service to his FindaGrave bio

 

[John Winn]

Maybe the next step would be to add the USCT service to his FindaGrave bio

I considered that but, unfortunately, the guy who manages the memorial now no longer responds to suggested edits. If the edit suggestions are simple factual ones (e.g. name or date corrections/additions) they just get auto-approved after 21 days but bio edits require action on the part of the memorial manager and he just doesn't respond (I've dealt with his memorials a lot). Some years ago he used to approve edits but I suspect he's got old and has too many memorials to manage (he's got many thousands).

Now then, I could send him a bio suggestion and, after a 30-day wait, I could appeal to Find A Grave - who might or might not edit the bio - but I don't have the patience to jump through such hoops. But if somebody else want to do it, great !

 

[lupaglupa]

I considered that but, unfortunately, the guy who manages the memorial now no longer responds to suggested edits. If the edit suggestions are simple factual ones (e.g. name or date corrections/additions) they just get auto-approved after 21 days but bio edits require action on the part of the memorial manager and he just doesn't respond (I've dealt with his memorials a lot). Some years ago he used to approve edits but I suspect he's got old and has too many memorials to manage (he's got many thousands).

Now then, I could send him a bio suggestion and, after a 30-day wait, I could appeal to Find A Grave - who might or might not edit the bio - but I don't have the patience to jump through such hoops. But if somebody else want to do it, great !

This is one of my top five frustrations with Find a Grave. There's a whole group out there who love to add memorials but don't care if they are wrong.

 

[John Winn]

This is one of my top five frustrations with Find a Grave. There's a whole group out there who love to add memorials but don't care if they are wrong.

Find A Grave is .... well, complicated. It's a volunteer effort and thus open to anybody with the time to sit down at a computer. Most want to do things right but as with anything open to the masses there are many who have agendas or are just not good researchers or, perhaps, not very bright. Find A Grave has forums (most don't know that) and if you frequent them you'll soon learn of all the games some play and those who don't want to cooperate or follow the rules and guidelines. Over the years I've sort of learned when it's worth my time to try and correct something and when it's likely to just be a waste of my time.

The same can be said for Ancestry (that owns Find A Grave). Trying to contact someone with a question or a correction is almost always met with silence and most (I feel) of the trees are undocumented and just cobbled together by rank amateurs.

It's a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" situation. If you open it up to the masses there'll be all sorts of problems but if you don't then you'll not get the involvement needed. Anybody who works with the public can verify that it's difficult to work with the masses.

 

[lupaglupa]

I agree with what you have to say, but I will point out one difference with Ancestry - you can make your own tree there and put it online. At FindaGrave you really have to accept what's there with little to no opportunity to correct it if the 'owner' of the memorial won't help. So while many trees on Ancestry are garbage many are not and it doesn't take long to figure out which to take information from.

 

[Story]

I considered that but, unfortunately, the guy who manages the memorial now no longer responds to suggested edits. If the edit suggestions are simple factual ones (e.g. name or date corrections/additions) they just get auto-approved after 21 days but bio edits require action on the part of the memorial manager and he just doesn't respond (I've dealt with his memorials a lot). Some years ago he used to approve edits but I suspect he's got old and has too many memorials to manage (he's got many thousands).

Now then, I could send him a bio suggestion and, after a 30-day wait, I could appeal to Find A Grave - who might or might not edit the bio - but I don't have the patience to jump through such hoops. But if somebody else want to do it, great !

For what it's worth, when I was actively looking I came across a fair number of duplicate entries. Perhaps that's worth a try.

 

[Story]

For those who find this thread while researching the 127th USCT or US Colored Troop regiments in general, see also

https://civilwartalk.com/threads/seeking-help-to-identify-unknown-flag.159034/#post-2074190

and

Flag carried by African-American regiment from Pennsylvania up for auction | Life at War for People of Color (1861-1865)

Rare flag carried by African-American troops up for auction. https://civil-war-picket.blogspot.com/2019/06/rare-flag-carried-by-african-american.html. Image courtesy of Morphy Auctions

civilwartalk.com

 

[Story]

It's a bit of a "tragedy of the commons" situation. If you open it up to the masses there'll be all sorts of problems but if you don't then you'll not get the involvement needed. Anybody who works with the public can verify that it's difficult to work with the masses.

Ideally, those with a vested interest should open and maintain a virtual cemetery of USCT veterans.
Other subsects of Civil War veterans have done the same, so precedence exists.
Grouped by Regiments would be ideal.

 

[donna]

I have found that most people on Find A Grave will accept edits, especially if you related to deceased.

A couple of times, I found that person who had originally posted the Memorial was deceased. I asked Find A Grave several times to transfer to me since original poster deceased and I was related to the person in Memorial. Unfortunately I had no luck in getting the Memorial or being able to add to it.

I haven't tried in a while, maybe I will try again.

Did you look up the original poster, someone may have message that person deceased.

Just some thoughts.

 

[ErnieMac]

From Fold3: